Arthritis - effect of trapezoid removal on playing

[Stub Mandrel]

My bother and I both have arthritis in the base of our thumbs. He plays guitar.

I use boswellia, a course of it gives me a few months clear of pain (just occasional discomfort) and the more I play the better it gets. I discovered teh Boswellia two years ago, and it hasn't been as bad as the day before I started with it since (like 24 hour toothache in my hands).

My brother has just had his thumbs x-rayed and been given cortisol injections in both. They have said that in a few years he will need to have the trapezoid bones removed. I suspect I may follow him along this route in time (I'm eight years older and m my symptoms are essentially the same).

Has anyone here had this done, and how did it affect your playing?

 

[tegs07]

Not had the surgery but find Tumeric Tea helps with arthritis. Tumeric in general but easy to absorb in boiled water. 

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, tegs07 said:

Not had the surgery but find Tumeric Tea helps with arthritis. Tumeric in general but easy to absorb in boiled water. 

I use turmeric in my cooking a lot. I like to put a heaped teaspoon in with brown rice while it cooks.

[mcnach]

Turmeric 'latte', especially if made with coconut milk, with a bit of black pepper, yum...

[Waddo Soqable]

I have a friend who's had this exact operation fairly recently, they seem to have regained a fair bit of grip and can manipulate stuff again, (needing to be careful not to overdo it though) it's an ongoing gradual recovery of course.

They don't play bass or guitar, but I'll shove one in their hand and try to get an opinion as to what it feels like and how it might impinge on playing if they did ! 

[chris_b]

24 minutes ago, mcnach said:

Turmeric 'latte', especially if made with coconut milk, with a bit of black pepper, yum...

My turmeric "tea" is turmeric, black pepper and some chipotle chilli flakes. Three mugs a day.

Last month I stopped taking it for 3 days and my neck and shoulder arthritis pain started to come back. I also have twinges in my thumb, which the turmeric seems to be keeping at bay.

[police squad]

1 hour ago, mcnach said:

Turmeric 'latte', especially if made with coconut milk, with a bit of black pepper, yum...

please........this sounds delicious, have you a recipe

I have some pain in my left thumb, lack of grip and it makes thumb on back the neck stuff painful

[police squad]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

My turmeric "tea" is turmeric, black pepper and some chipotle chilli flakes. Three mugs a day.

Last month I stopped taking it for 3 days and my neck and shoulder arthritis pain started to come back. I also have twinges in my thumb, which the turmeric seems to be keeping at bay.

again, this sounds delicious, can you post a recipe please

[mcnach]

23 minutes ago, police squad said:

please........this sounds delicious, have you a recipe

I have some pain in my left thumb, lack of grip and it makes thumb on back the neck stuff painful

 

I just heat up coconut 'milk' in the microwave, add a teaspoon of turmeric, a bit of honey, and black pepper to taste.

I haven't had it in ages, so of course I don't recall what coconut milk was my favourite: I tried a few and some were better tasting than others, but the result was always tasty

 

 

[police squad]

Just now, mcnach said:

 

I just heat up coconut 'milk' in the microwave, add a teaspoon of turmeric, a bit of honey, and black pepper to taste.

I haven't had it in ages, so of course I don't recall what coconut milk was my favourite: I tried a few and some were better tasting than others, but the result was always tasty

 

 

this I must try, bit calorific but worth a go

[NancyJohnson]

Haven't had my trapeziods removed, but suspect it's coming, I suppose come the time, it's just a case of deciding which process is better (the rolled up tendon or the bottle stopper/ball joint method).  To be honest, I've seen some horrific stuff online (people in persistent pain etc.) and I believe that when it's time to have the op, I suspect I'll park bass playing for good; that said, I do wonder at the age we live in, wherein a rolled up tendon can be used to replace a dice shape bone.

Turmeric helps as an anti-inflammatory - I don't take it daily because the pain isn't there all the time.  I also take glucosamine sulphate occasionally which purports to be good for the cartledge generally.

Oh the pain of getting old.  Well, older.

[chris_b]

3 hours ago, police squad said:

again, this sounds delicious, can you post a recipe please

For a 500ml mug: slightly more than a level teaspoon of turmeric. 1/4 tsp ground black pepper and chilli flakes to taste. Depending on the strength of the chilli I have about the size of my little finger nail. Careful not to gulp down the sludge that sits at the bottom of the mug. Don't spill it! It's very effective at staining anything it comes in contact with.

[mcnach]

7 hours ago, police squad said:

this I must try, bit calorific but worth a go

 

yes it is! especially when you start developing a taste for the honey and keep adding more each time... willpower is required to not become very round in a short period of time

 

[thebrig]

I have arthritis in both thumbs and had a trapeziectomy which is an operation to remove the trapezium (small piece of bone) in my right thumb in 2007, and I was supposed to have had the left one removed at a later date.

I had an plastic bone inserted in the space, six month's later, I had to have it removed because of the pain it was causing and I could hardly move my thumb at all.

When the artificial bone was removed the surgeon used one of the three tendons in my wrist that runs down to the thumb, it was rolled up and inserted in the space, I was in less pain but my movement was still restricted which meant placing my thumb on the pickup or strings was not only painful, but very clumsy and restrictive.

Over the years I have had to rest my palm on the bass and done my best, but over the last 12 months or so, I am getting more and more movement and can now use the pickup or strings to anchor my thumb.

Needless to say, I opted out of having the other thumb done and have since been told by other surgeons that it is a procedure that often fails.

I would never advise anyone to have, or not have, a trapeziectomy because its down to the individual to choose, but I was told that I would have full movement within twelve months, but its been fourteen years to get back to around 75% movement.

I've attached a photo of me and my better half five days after the second op.

[Stub Mandrel]

Thanks @thebrig that's the sort of direct experience I was looking for. I've passed it on to my brother.

If it stopped him playing guitar and mountain biking, even for a few years, he would be heartbroken.

I'm glad you are finally getting somewhere.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Stub Mandrel

[thebrig]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Thanks @thebrig that's the sort of direct experience I was looking for. I've passed it on to my brother.

If it stopped him playing guitar and mountain biking, even for a few years, he would be heartbroken.

I'm glad you are finally getting somewhere.

Thanks, I am a lot happier now with my playing, although any musos watching would probably think I have terrible technique. 

It didn't stop me playing completely, but it was a struggle until recently, my bandmates were very understanding and if a certain song was too much for me, then they were happy to drop it.

It could be different for your brother, and it depends on what type of procedure the specialist suggests, I might have been one of the unlucky ones. 

If he ever wanted to know more about my experience, just drop me a PM. 

[Waddo Soqable]

I'd have to say that the person i know had a much happier experience with it and seems to be doing well, it's a few months since the op , it was the tendon version they had rather than bits of plastic. 

As he says above it may be very much down to the individual, (plus a bit of pot luck) but my friend on the contrary said they would recommend the op. Sorry to cloud the issue but they're very positive about the op, bearing in mind they may have got the techniques refined somewhat in 14 years, just a thought

I will as I mentioned originally, get them to have a try on my bass at the first opportunity, tho they don't play they could give an opinion as to if it seemed like a thing that they would be happy to do, or not as the case may be !

[thebrig]

9 hours ago, Waddo Soqable said:

I'd have to say that the person i know had a much happier experience with it and seems to be doing well, it's a few months since the op , it was the tendon version they had rather than bits of plastic. 

As he says above it may be very much down to the individual, (plus a bit of pot luck) but my friend on the contrary said they would recommend the op. Sorry to cloud the issue but they're very positive about the op, bearing in mind they may have got the techniques refined somewhat in 14 years, just a thought

I will as I mentioned originally, get them to have a try on my bass at the first opportunity, tho they don't play they could give an opinion as to if it seemed like a thing that they would be happy to do, or not as the case may be !

I do sometimes think that if I'd had the "tendon" procedure instead of the "plastic" procedure in the first place, then maybe the outcome would have been better.

As you can see from the attached photo, having the implant is very intrusive and requires drilling into the bones either side so the implant can be fitted. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by thebrig

[Waddo Soqable]

1 hour ago, thebrig said:

I do sometimes think that if I'd had the "tendon" procedure instead of the "plastic" procedure in the first place, then maybe the outcome would have been better.

As you can see from the attached photo, having the implant is very intrusive and requires drilling into the bones either side so the implant can be fitted. 

Wow, now I've actually seen my friend's x ray, and it's micro surgery compared to this, essentially a different op altogether by the looks. As I said they've been very pleased so far ( as have the docs) with how it's healed, the relief of previous pain, and good potential for future activity.. Really there's been no probs with it.

I'm very sorry to hear your story and in your position I'd be saying "don't go there" too !   I have to assume that 14 years down the line they've learned and got it a bit more "sussed" as it were.

[NancyJohnson]

2 hours ago, thebrig said:

'The bottle stopper'

With so many people suffering from this form of arthritis, you'd think that procedures would become a little less arcane...my wife commented once something along the lines of, 'well, can't they just take the bone out and put another (metallic) cuboid thing in there?'

It's a great idea, but you have to consider that a piece of titanium will just wear down the bones going into it.  It's amazing how failure of such a small piece of one's body can be so debilitating.

[Stub Mandrel]

35 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

'The bottle stopper'

With so many people suffering from this form of arthritis, you'd think that procedures would become a little less arcane...my wife commented once something along the lines of, 'well, can't they just take the bone out and put another (metallic) cuboid thing in there?'

It's a great idea, but you have to consider that a piece of titanium will just wear down the bones going into it.  It's amazing how failure of such a small piece of one's body can be so debilitating.

Apparently one modern treatment is to put a lump of silicone rubber in its place.