Silent Stage...no backline or monitors

[BCH]

31st July 2021 first gig since Feb 2020. During lockdown we decided...due to age, bad backs etc to go digital & no backline or monitors. We are a 3 piece ( guitar, bass & drums with two vocals) mainly doing 60's & 70's. We use Roland V drums which is a godsend for our ears and setting up time, so decided to go for a silent stage.

 

We are big fans of RCF so invested in RCF M20X mixer, TT FoH active cabs & bass bin. I have been able to get a great & powerful bass sound in rehearsals at lowish levels & at the gig last Sat outdoors ( and in a hall with no audience ) it was excellent, ...so the risk and investment paid off all of the band were happy & the feedback from the audience was good a couple of musicians commented on the clarity, separation & hi fi sound..so the backline is gone (for this band anyway)

 

And YES the guitarist amp etc is history...load cheers from BC members

 

But what about monitors? they have gone to. We have used IEM's but did not like the ground level noise, sound quality, latency and "faf"

 

We invested in a DACS Clarity headlite 3+ with upgraded power channels (1U)...basically a studio headphone amp. This is individually fed from the desk and each band member has his own mix & volume control via desk, ipad or phone...stereo jack cable from headphone amp to belt clip with stereo socket...plug in you inears (at rehearsals, headphones) and no noise...clear real time hi fi mix. We did not need as much volume in our ears and we sang better (pitch and harmony blend)...it took a lot of practice but wwe are we are hooked and cannot go back

 

We have a comms channel to band members only via momentary pedal ..and a shotgun mic to pickup the crowd when we stop making a racket!

 

I am sharing this as we have never had such a great FoH sound, foldback & clarity of how we are playing together...it was quicker to set up and pack...horah and we were not tired & our ears did not ring on the way home....I hope it inspires you..to think different...it took a lot of incremental tests and different gear (desks, headphone amps, In ears, headphones, footswitches etc)

 

Some pic's during testing...NOTE: the desk EQ is sooo good, I have got rid of the sansamp RBI

 

Cant wait for the next gig 15th Aug

 

[BassmanPaul]

That's a colourful bass you have there.

[Nebadon2000]

Played that way but with IEM's and Mic at front center facing audience [to hear them when they spoke to us] with original band for a few years.

 

Having a CD/Studio quality mix at reasonable level enhanced our performance along with other benefits mentioned.

 

A tad pricey though.

[Lozz196]

Having been a “dinosaur” re sound for most of my playing life I’ve recently started wearing ACS earplugs as our drummer is so loud. The difference a much quieter backline makes is pretty astounding, every instrument is able to be heard clearly, enabling a much better understanding of what is going on.
Great for rehearsals, I’m sure it would be great for gigs but IMO it would surely benefit songwriting at rehearsals as instead of getting to the studio and then finely tuning material it would already be done. 
So I’m sure that this way of playing - providing the audience get a good sound - has to be the way forwards.

[BCH]

7 hours ago, Nebadon2000 said:

Played that way but with IEM's and Mic at front center facing audience [to hear them when they spoke to us] with original band for a few years.

 

Having a CD/Studio quality mix at reasonable level enhanced our performance along with other benefits mentioned.

 

A tad pricey though.

But worth it....a lot of enjoyment comes from try gear and config' to improve sound, particularly foldback...it never stops! 

[BCH]

10 hours ago, BassmanPaul said:

That's a colourful bass you have there.

Its art spalted maple, the colour is natural (thats the 26.5" scale)...the 30.5" scale is Art maple burl

 

 

[BCH]

41 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Having been a “dinosaur” re sound for most of my playing life I’ve recently started wearing ACS earplugs as our drummer is so loud. The difference a much quieter backline makes is pretty astounding, every instrument is able to be heard clearly, enabling a much better understanding of what is going on.
Great for rehearsals, I’m sure it would be great for gigs but IMO it would surely benefit songwriting at rehearsals as instead of getting to the studio and then finely tuning material it would already be done. 
So I’m sure that this way of playing - providing the audience get a good sound - has to be the way forwards.

Agreed, and protects your ears....Most bands dont have a FoH engineer (we haven't over 1000 gigs)so sometimes the challenge is to get ALL the  band to commit to focusing on FoH sound for the audience and they investing in foldback (IEM's wireless & wired, quiet monitors etc) to maintain the mix ballance & quality... With the new mixer RCF M20X we have a new sound check method...which I will outline in this chat, later

Edited August 6, 2021 by BCH
Spelling

[EBS_freak]

7 hours ago, BCH said:

With the new mixer RCF M20X we have a new sound check method...which I will outline in this chat, later

Playback mix I presume? (Virtual soundcheck)

Edited August 6, 2021 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

Some folks may find section 7 of the IEM bible thread useful - 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by EBS_freak

[BCH]

2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Playback mix I presume? (Virtual soundcheck)

Yes have use a couple of times, its very effective ...not yet proficient & RCF but have feedback to RCF who will are going to add to the next firmware update 

It learnt a lot from your extensive contribution to the IEM's discussion...helped move us to wired in ear...thx

[BassmanPaul]

On 06/08/2021 at 03:12, Lozz196 said:

I’ve recently started wearing ACS earplugs as our drummer is so loud. 

 

Damn good idea! You must protect your hearing. Your playing life will be far shorter than the length of your life. 

 

The two sets of hearing aids I was forced to buy cost $6000 for the first set and $8000 for the second. That's a lot of money that could have been spent on musical equipment!

Edited August 7, 2021 by BassmanPaul

[BCH]

Silent stage ( no backline or monitors) set up for gig last Sat. This time the wifi was working (thx to  EBS_freak for removing guitar wireless) so drummer & guitarist have iPad for their in ear mix

We achieved a great sound & we were all very happy with the in ear foldback...you can run in-ear quieter and pitch/blend better....at the end of the gig we all felt relaxed, (not tired etc)...the investment of time, money & testing has paid off....the desk was important but the biggest improvement came from the DACS studio amp. 

[BCH]

Update, we have now used this set up @ 12 gigs ...it is excellent on every front...less gear...quick set up ...individual IE monitor mix, which is fab quality & separation & lower volumes...we are playing better & singing / harmonies have improved... great feedback from crowd & other bands...not as tired at the end of the night. we tried ambient & audience mic(s)..we did not like...but found band comm's mic essential which improved the smooth running of the show....everyone is committed & happy

[Owen]

On 27/08/2021 at 09:08, BCH said:

Silent stage ( no backline or monitors) set up for gig last Sat. This time the wifi was working (thx to  EBS_freak for removing guitar wireless) so drummer & guitarist have iPad for their in ear mix

We achieved a great sound & we were all very happy with the in ear foldback...you can run in-ear quieter and pitch/blend better....at the end of the gig we all felt relaxed, (not tired etc)...the investment of time, money & testing has paid off....the desk was important but the biggest improvement came from the DACS studio amp. 

I bet the snare sounded epic in there!

[BCH]

12 hours ago, owen said:

I bet the snare sounded epic in there!

It sure does....

[BCH]

We have done 16 gig's with our new PA & wired in ear & another 22 gigs booked to the end of the year. We are so please with the quality of the FoH & in ear...we are concerned if anything goes wrong on the night, so we have built a simple spare rig...work's well..

Todays kit is far more reliable, so am I the only one that worries!!!!!!!

[Phil Starr]

Nice to see the M18 getting a workout. 

[BCH]

17 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

Nice to see the M18 getting a workout. 

They are so good

[Storky]

That’s a very interesting thread; I’d love to have a silent stage but don’t know what exactly is need and in any case doubt I’d ever get it past our dinosaur guitarist/singer and drummer.

[Phil Starr]

3 hours ago, BCH said:

They are so good

They are, just got back from rehearsal, saved the settings from our last gig and then just plugged in and good to go. Good to go every time and first time. Individual monitors and the only one I have to ever set is the drummer's (and mine when he logs in to mine by mistake) 

 

The psychology is interesting, give them ordinary over ear headphones and they aren't threatened, it's just like the studio which they've all tried before, then get them to try in-ears and it's just a natural progression.