EU Touring to Return?

[joeystrange]

According to this article UK musicians may soon be able to tour the EU (19 countries for the time being) visa-free.

 

I’m sure there will be caveats but it’s promising, at least.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/05/uk-musicians-to-be-able-to-tour-visa-free-in-19-eu-countries-brexit

[Rich]

From what I understand the visas were only part of the problem. There's the whole issue of carnets for all the gear, merch, etc too.

 

[joeystrange]

Like everything involved with this whole mess there are a lot of unknowns. But at least it’s a step in the right direction.

[Steve Browning]

11 minutes ago, Rich said:

From what I understand the visas were only part of the problem. There's the whole issue of carnets for all the gear, merch, etc too.

 

Yes. My understanding is that a carnet is still required. In some ways, the visa was the easy bit.

[Supernaut]

Is it now a case of negotiating for our previous EU ruleset only this time being less favourable for the UK? 🙄

[Rich]

Time will tell regarding the favourableness (probably not an actual word, but IDRGAF  ) of the 19 aligned agreements so far in place. As has been mentioned, it's only really a partial win if the carnet issue hasn't been resolved. 

[Russ]

No, it's bull excrement. Nothing new has happened or been negotiated, they are just listing the 19 countries that already allow for some degree of short-term performance-related work. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-musicians-touring-oliver-dowden-b1897476.html

[SteveK]

For many musicians who tour EU countries regularly (of which, I am one), this is potentially good news!  Re carnets: A lot of bands (such as ourselves) keep their gear on the continent. Many other bands will have promoters hire in equipment, so for a lot of bands carnets shouldn't be a problem.

Unfortunately, I don't see the carnet situation being resolved. A lot of countries on the continent require carnets. EU countries will now most likely require the same.

[SteveK]

Who the hell knows what's going on?

It appears to be official. The government's own website shows it in black and white.

Of course, the phrase "short term" looks rather suspicious!

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/visa-free-short-term-touring-allowed-in-19-member-states

 

Edited: as my autocorrect is seriously misbehaving!

Edited August 5, 2021 by SteveK
My rubbish autocorrect

[Russ]

1 minute ago, SteveK said:

Who the he'll knows what's going on?

It appears to be official. The government's own website shows it in black and white.

Of course, the phrase "short term" looks rather suspicious!

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/visa-free-short-term-touring-allowed-in-19-member-states

This is what everyone's been able to do anyway. Nothing new there. And still nothing has been done or is likely to be done about carnets, cabotage or anything like that.

 

They're just putting something out there to make it look like they've done something about it and they haven't. 

 

Under this lot, the era of small bands piling into a Transit to go and do a few gigs in the Netherlands, France or Germany is basically over.

[SteveK]

Lying, dishonest politicians... who'd have thought(?)🙄

 

[pete.young]

The Guardian article have now re-published the article under the same link, but with a different title, essentially about musicians saying "WTF?"

[joeystrange]

5 minutes ago, pete.young said:

The Guardian article have now re-published the article under the same link, but with a different title, essentially about musicians saying "WTF?"

That seems like VERY bad practice.

[Marvin]

9 minutes ago, pete.young said:

The Guardian article have now re-published the article under the same link, but with a different title, essentially about musicians saying "WTF?"

That's because we don't have journalists in the UK anymore, who previously would have checked what was actually going on. Now we have persons who glibly repeat announcements, or what someone said on social media and pad it out with unresearched 'comment'.

 

To be fair this govts green credentials just go up and up, they're always recycling announcements.

[ambient]

Nothing has actually changed, the government is being its usual duplicitous self.

 

 

[yorks5stringer]

Sadly this Government does not value culture in any form, even cutting the funding to Arts based courses at Universities. Wonder what will happen when the Bullingdon Club runs out of strippers, maybe use pigs ( hang on , that's already been tried)? IBTL

[MacDaddy]

How does it work for bands from the USA touring Europe? Do they have the same problems?

[joeystrange]

I would imagine so but, as mentioned above, American bands wouldn’t usually be bringing gear with them.

Smaller bands tend to borrow gear and bigger bands will either hire or have gear already stored in the EU. A lot of bands will often get merch produced there too to save bringing it with them.

 

The difference with UK bands is that we could drive and take all of our gear and merch with us, which would now cause these issues.

 

American bands do need visas, however.

[Marvin]

For small up and coming UK bands, gigging around Europe was just an extension of gigging in the UK, it was the same circuit. It literally meant they were gigging all the time. I know of several who would pack their gear in a van (just like the old days) and gig small venues in France, Germany, Netherlands and Belgium for several months. They'd even just pop back to the UK to do a week of gigs or a festival and then back across the channel.  Being able to do that was like US bands who are able to just gig around the US. But that's all gone now. Visas, carnets etc, all extra cost that will make it totally unworkable for these bands to do what they were doing. Also having all those extra venues and audiences in throughout the EU made their band etc viable full stop.

 

For the bands I'm talking about they don't have gear in other countries or are able to hire gear.

 

Similar bands from the US with similar fan bases, ie. small, just don't tour or gig in the UK. It's too expensive. It's the same reason why the bands from the UK who'd easily gig a lot throughout the EU don't gig in the US. 

 

 

[ambient]

3 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

How does it work for bands from the USA touring Europe? Do they have the same problems?

Yes, which is why you’re unlikely to see anyone performing that hasn’t got a lot of finance behind them.

[ambient]

I’m aware this is a musician’s forum, but we need to remember too that this is affecting the whole creative industry.
 

Freelancers across the skills board who work in films, TV and stage shows, behind the scenes in operas and classical music shows, they’re all detrimentally effected by this.

[borntohang]

5 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

How does it work for bands from the USA touring Europe? Do they have the same problems?

 

The UK was actually well placed in that regard as US bands could fly in here to pick up crew and backline, do a few shows around the country, then head out for Europe and do the reverse on the way back out. Sort of an Airstrip One/forward operating base kind of deal. It's still expensive and monotonous to negotiate the visa requirements, but most touring agents were aware of how to minimise the issues. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by borntohang

[Rich]

5 hours ago, Marvin said:

Similar bands from the US with similar fan bases, ie. small, just don't tour or gig in the UK. It's too expensive. It's the same reason why the bands from the UK who'd easily gig a lot throughout the EU don't gig in the US. 

 

 

Something I've noticed quite a lot in the last couple of years is bands/artists from the US playing a 'European Tour' that features no UK dates whatsoever. My favourite jazz artist's last European tour featured pretty much every country in mainland Europe (9 dates in Germany!) but the closest he got to the UK was Paris.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Rich

[joeystrange]

7 minutes ago, Rich said:

 

Something I've noticed quite a lot in the last couple of years is bands/artists from the US playing a 'European Tour' that features no UK dates whatsoever. My favourite jazz artist's last European tour featured pretty much every country in mainland Europe (9 dates in Germany!) but the closest he got to the UK was Paris.

Depends on the size of the fan base, usually. I know a fair few American/Canadian bands who will headline to 1000+ people and play big festivals all over Europe but struggle to pull 100 people in the UK, despite sometimes having toured here for years. If they don’t come to the UK whilst on a European tour it’s often because they’ll lose money doing so.

[Marvin]

15 minutes ago, Rich said:

 

Something I've noticed quite a lot in the last couple of years is bands/artists from the US playing a 'European Tour' that features no UK dates whatsoever. My favourite jazz artist's last European tour featured pretty much every country in mainland Europe (9 dates in Germany!) but the closest he got to the UK was Paris.

 

3 minutes ago, joeystrange said:

Depends on the size of the fan base, usually. I know a fair few American/Canadian bands who will headline to 1000+ people and play big festivals all over Europe but struggle to pull 100 people in the UK, despite sometimes having toured here for years. If they don’t come to the UK whilst on a European tour it’s often because they’ll lose money doing so.

Some of it's down to promoters not willing to take the risk as well. I follow Billy Sheehan on social media and he gets loads of grumbles from Australian fans complaining he doesn't do shows there. He explains that if a promoter is willing to book them he (and whatever band he's playing with) will play Oz