Bass Guitar Magazine

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='OldGit' post='474853' date='Apr 29 2009, 10:26 AM']Long Fleabass discussion thread [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=41870&view=findpost&p=415441"]here[/url][/quote]
indeed, my post was simply commenting on the article.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='474856' date='Apr 29 2009, 10:30 AM']There are a number of posters on here that are both entertaining a informative. Sling them a few quid.[/quote]

thanks Beefy, but I haven't really got the time at the moment

[quote name='maxrossell' post='474949' date='Apr 29 2009, 12:08 PM']So if you hire good journalists who know their gear and have the balls to point out when a guitar is nowhere near what it should be for what it costs, you risk losing your advertisers, or having the manufacturers refuse to send you any more review models[/quote]

not sure, I mean where else are bass manufacturers going to advertise to British bass players in a British bass magazine?

There's not really a lot of options on the magazine racks for bass mags. 1 British, 1 USA.

[maxrossell]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='475363' date='Apr 29 2009, 06:56 PM']not sure, I mean where else are bass manufacturers going to advertise to British bass players in a British bass magazine?

There's not really a lot of options on the magazine racks for bass mags. 1 British, 1 USA.[/quote]

That's assuming that all bass and bass gear manufacturers are going to be that sensible. It's not unheard of for a manufacturer to arrogantly burn bridges with a major advertising associate over a bad review. Plus you gotta bear in mind that many of the bass manufacturers also make guitars, and half the work of advertising is building brand recognition, so the benefits of advertising in guitar magazines are going to automatically spill over to their bass division. For those that don't there's always the internet, and making sure that their product is in pride of place in retailers' stores, both online and off.

It's pretty commonplace for an advertiser to place an advert in a magazine alongside a feature on their product, with the assurance that a positive feature will lead to the purchase of more advertising space - and the automatic implication that a negative feature might prevent further such purchases. I was, for a very brief time, layout editor for a couple of magazines, and most of the advert sales were done on the basis of such back-scratching arrangements.

[BigRedX]

But it can work against the advertisers too.

There is so much Warwick and Framus advertising in the UK musical instrument press and I don't think there's ever been a month when at least one of their products wasn't being reviewed in on of the guitar or bass orientated magazines.

A paranoid person might wonder whether the Germans own the UK musical instrument press?

[OldGit]

[quote name='maxrossell' post='475003' date='Apr 29 2009, 01:02 PM']Sick burn![/quote]

?

Curry last night and now you are vomiting?

[12stringbassist]

Framus made two SuperYob guitars. The one pictured above now belongs to Paul Day.
The other one was simply sold by Dave Hill.

He now uses a John Birch replica with neck LEDs.
Here's a photo of it from my Slade site, [url="http://www.slayed.co.uk"]www.slayed.co.uk [/url]whilst it was under construction ..



[i]John Birch guitars, less the late John Birch, started work on a number of 'replica' SuperYob guitars. These were
based quite closely on the original Yob, which Marco lent back to Dave Hill and John Birch guitars while it was
needed. I don't think the small limited edition ever got to the intended number of 50 copies, which can only serve
to make the small number that were actually built and sold even more valuable. Mind you, you could still get one
made...

Ex-Slade bassist Dave Glover did talk to the company about a bass version of the SuperYob, but the body to neck
proportions would have been all wrong. The idea was abandoned. No basses were made.[/i] Edited May 9, 2009 by 12stringbassist

[BottomEndian]

Any sign of the new issue yet? I've been putting up with Flea's unbearable face for about six weeks now. So much for monthly...

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='498592' date='May 27 2009, 11:21 AM']Any sign of the new issue yet? I've been putting up with Flea's unbearable face for about six weeks now. So much for monthly...[/quote]

I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm guessing this next one with feature the Musikmesse report... (that seems ages ago now)

[Eight]

Due on friday apparently.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Eight' post='498640' date='May 27 2009, 12:11 PM']Due on friday apparently.[/quote]

I'm so excited I've just let out a little wee.

[Eight]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='498646' date='May 27 2009, 12:15 PM']I'm so excited I've just let out a little wee.[/quote]
Hahahahahahah

[WHUFC BASS]

I've often said about magazines and papers, they'll really have to up their game as the internet offers vastly more than a mag can without the price tag. Let's look at what they offer:

ADS!! The ads I can do without however, they need this to generate income so its a fact of life. Mags will have ads in them. Some enjoy them but generally from a punters point of view they are just space fillers.

What else do they offer? Not a lot. Reviews can be had on Harmony Central and numerous other sites and will be brutally honest if something is bad - often mags won't be for fear of upsetting manufacturers. On the web, you often get a cross section of players reviewing a particular item which is a whole lot better than just one person reviewing an item.

Secondly the interviews they do are mildly interesting but again, after reading them once or twice, who goes back to them?

Then there's the transcriptions which again can be had on numerous tab sites with many youtube clips available showing how its done.

I know that BPM has a website and it isn't that bad, but for a mag to be successful these days they really have to do something special. Many don't. As mentioned, free DVDs or CDs might be an option but if they're going on content alone, they're going to struggle.

What can they do?

Difficult one. Maybe by doing special features month such as some guitarist mags have done - for example, devoting the mag to one paticular style each month with a free CD of transcriptions and / or lessons.

Discounts negotiated with manufacturers for readers.

that's all I can think of at the moment !

Just my two bobs worth...

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='498727' date='May 27 2009, 01:45 PM']I've often said about magazines and papers, they'll really have to up their game as the internet offers vastly more than a mag can without the price tag. Let's look at what they offer:

ADS!! The ads I can do without however, they need this to generate income so its a fact of life. Mags will have ads in them. Some enjoy them but generally from a punters point of view they are just space fillers.[/quote]

Agreed most ads are a complete waste of time unless the ad is for something that is out of the ordinary. For example, how many average bass players would say Overwater in their list of top ten basses. I actually spotted an advert for Lindsay Wilson basses in last months and hence I did a bit of snooping around to see what I could find out - and yes, I know there was a little piece about them in the mag... So yeah, whilst I agree with the majority of what is being said, there are a few exceptions. I am guessing that Bass Direct are one of the few advertisers who actually generate extra interest from their Ads. Do companies like Fender and Warwick? Unlikely... even though they are probably one of the biggest investors in the ads.

[quote]What else do they offer? Not a lot. Reviews can be had on Harmony Central and numerous other sites and will be brutally honest if something is bad - often mags won't be for fear of upsetting manufacturers. On the web, you often get a cross section of players reviewing a particular item which is a whole lot better than just one person reviewing an item.[/quote]

Do you seriously take Harmony Central reviews as anything but with a pinch of salt? The amount of people who review them bassed on a 30 second dabble in a shot is ridiculous. Similarly, you get the metallers reviewing a Hofner jazz box saying that it's sh1te because it just howls the second you put the overdrive pedal on. This Marshall TSL sounds crap for jazz... you get the idea. Most of the people on there are idiots.

[quote]Secondly the interviews they do are mildly interesting but again, after reading them once or twice, who goes back to them?[/quote]

Nobody - but how many times do you revisit an interview on the web - or rewatch a youtube video of an interview?

[quote]Then there's the transcriptions which again can be had on numerous tab sites with many youtube clips available showing how its done.[/quote]

...and a lot of tab sites are wrong... and the people playing them on YouTube are wrong. But if thats cool... that's cool.

[quote]I know that BPM has a website and it isn't that bad, but for a mag to be successful these days they really have to do something special. Many don't. As mentioned, free DVDs or CDs might be an option but if they're going on content alone, they're going to struggle.[/quote]

A free DVD or CD is alot of extra work and will require an increase in the price of the magazine. Are they going to do this for what is quite a niche market. At the end of the day, BGM is still a business. They have to make it pay for itself.

[quote]What can they do?

Difficult one. Maybe by doing special features month such as some guitarist mags have done - for example, devoting the mag to one paticular style each month with a free CD of transcriptions and / or lessons.

Discounts negotiated with manufacturers for readers.

that's all I can think of at the moment !

Just my two bobs worth...[/quote]

This has been discussed many times - they need to make it look more pro - with proper editing... etc, do a search for some of the past discussions.

My main gripe is that they need in depth reviews with people that know what they are talking about. Anybody can go to a website, lift the press photos and present them in a magazine. It's the credability of the person reviewing the products that give a magazine review some weight... and that only comes with providing reviews with edge and convincing the readers that you really do know your stuff.

Compare those in BP with BGM. OK BP has it's enemies aswell as it's fans, but certainly the reviews in there are from people who really know their stuff. I've spoken to Jon Herrera at length. Not only is he a superb player, he is a gear nut - knows exactly what is out there and how it works... even down to the scientific level. The power cable review as an absolute joke though.

I'm not dissing any of the members of BGM as I think they are on a hard road to please everybody, but the quality does need to go up.

[ezbass]

By way of coincidence I had a text from a bass playing buddy who used to subscribe to BGM years ago and then stopped, saying that his girlfriend had just bought him a copy of BGM (last month's I guess) and he said that it's as if he'd never been away. This does seem true as BGM (which I DO enjoy reading BTW) does rather go round in circles with it's topics, interviewed personalities, etc. I know it's hard to keep coming up with new stuff, but maybe a little more effort is required (or maybe more staff) to make it more eclectic. A quick trawl through the various bass forums should provide a few ideas I'd have thought.

Having said all that I'm looking forward to this month's copy, whatever's in it.

[WHUFC BASS]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='498864' date='May 27 2009, 03:16 PM']Do you seriously take Harmony Central reviews as anything but with a pinch of salt? The amount of people who review them bassed on a 30 second dabble in a shot is ridiculous. Similarly, you get the metallers reviewing a Hofner jazz box saying that it's sh1te because it just howls the second you put the overdrive pedal on. This Marshall TSL sounds crap for jazz... you get the idea. Most of the people on there are idiots.

[i][b]Thats a bit of a sweeping statement - usually its easy to spot the idiots from the ones who know what they're talking about. I agree, it has its idiots, but there's also a high number of sensible reviewers that get on there. You can't dismiss the whole site just because some idiots get on there. [/b][/i]


Nobody - but how many times do you revisit an interview on the web - or rewatch a youtube video of an interview?

[i][b]A few times, if there's sensible content on there.[/b][/i]


...and a lot of tab sites are wrong... and the people playing them on YouTube are wrong. But if thats cool... that's cool.

[i][b]..and a lot of magazines are wrong too. Thing is, if I've paid money for a magazine with transcriptions then I'd expect them to be right on numerous occasions I have come across mistakes. Again, you are dismissing the web as being full of idiots and wrong information when in fact there's a wealth of information out there. [/b][/i]


A free DVD or CD is alot of extra work and will require an increase in the price of the magazine. Are they going to do this for what is quite a niche market. At the end of the day, BGM is still a business. They have to make it pay for itself.

[i][b]I'm no expert on marketing but surely there needs to be a bit of incentive here. If they churn out the same old boring formula then there's nothing to inspire me to buy it. A little investment may go a little way in renewing interest in the mag. As it stands, its just plain boring. [/b][/i]

This has been discussed many times - they need to make it look more pro - with proper editing... etc, do a search for some of the past discussions.

My main gripe is that they need in depth reviews with people that know what they are talking about. Anybody can go to a website, lift the press photos and present them in a magazine. It's the credability of the person reviewing the products that give a magazine review some weight... and that only comes with providing reviews with edge and convincing the readers that you really do know your stuff.

[i][b]Thats why I prefer the web. Despite dismissing it as full of 30 second dabblers and Metallers there are some knowledgeable people who post on Harmony Central - from stuff I've bought, a lot of the reviews appear to be spot on. Many are very critical, not biased or connected with any manufacturer. If someone states they play and listen to a certain style (say Heavy Metal) and then buy an instrument which isn't suited to that style and say so in the review - then guess what, I think I'd find that helpful if I was buying the instrument with that playing style in mind. Granted, if you bought a semi-acoustic bass to play metal then that's just ridiculous but for other instruments it may well be pertinent.

I think we're in agreement that the magazine needs an overhaul - my point is that it needs to compete with whats on the web by being more professional in its outlook and content and offering better value for money
[/b][/i][/quote]

[Jase]

Just had mine this morning, 29th on the dot! There's also an article about posture!

[Eight]

Anyone know if it's in the shops yet?

Debating whether to take a drive to Borders or not.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Eight' post='500833' date='May 29 2009, 12:51 PM']Anyone know if it's in the shops yet?

Debating whether to take a drive to Borders or not.[/quote]

Its in WH Smiths. I dont know if you want to bother though...

PS who wrote the TC Electronics review?

oh and the proof reading isn't any better.

Edited May 29, 2009 by EBS_freak

[Eight]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='500906' date='May 29 2009, 01:42 PM']Its in WH Smiths. I dont know if you want to bother though...[/quote]
Hahaha.

Well in theory I have to pop out anyway - I was just going to be lazy and not go unless there was a chance of finding BGM.

[urb]

Personally I think it's a big improvement on the last issue - good mix of players and (even though I may be biased) I think the Messe report came out well - hey there's still room for impovement but there always is - I think it's definitely heading in the right direction.

Cool column at the back by Franc O'Shea as well - he's one of the UK's best kept bass secrets - good job he's head of Bass at BIMM then innit?

Cheers

Mike

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='urb' post='500923' date='May 29 2009, 02:00 PM']Personally I think it's a big improvement on the last issue - good mix of players and (even though I may be biased) I think the Messe report came out well - hey there's still room for impovement but there always is - I think it's definitely heading in the right direction.

Cool column at the back by Franc O'Shea as well - he's one of the UK's best kept bass secrets - good job he's head of Bass at BIMM then innit?

Cheers

Mike[/quote]

Hey Mike -

agreed about the player content - a big improvement there. The Mark Stoermer and Dave Swift interviews I thought were one of the better sets of reviews that have been in BGM.

The reviews still don't do it for me I am afraid. Still not convinced that the reviews are "crebible" if that makes sense.

Franc's column was pretty good and the posture article, believe it or not, does make for an interesting read.

[BottomEndian]

There's been a bit of a "what's the point of BGM?" thing going on here, and I've been thinking about it. To an extent, I agree: magazines like BGM are becoming largely redundant in the internet age, and all the information contained in the magazine is freely available on the internet.

But the thing is, we're physical, tactile creatures. I, for one, love to hold and read a book, magazine or newspaper. At the risk of sounding extremely poncy, it's an immediate medium. Every month (or thereabouts ) a magazine plops through my letterbox, and it contains all sorts of information and news [i]that I've had to make no effort to find[/i]. If I wanted to find out everything in the magazine via the internet, I'm pretty sure I could, but I might not necessarily look for it in the first place.

Basically, it exposes us to information that we might not seek out independently, and that can only be a good thing.

/babbling

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='500938' date='May 29 2009, 02:13 PM']There's been a bit of a "what's the point of BGM?" thing going on here, and I've been thinking about it. To an extent, I agree: magazines like BGM are becoming largely redundant in the internet age, and all the information contained in the magazine is freely available on the internet.

But the thing is, we're physical, tactile creatures. I, for one, love to hold and read a book, magazine or newspaper. At the risk of sounding extremely poncy, it's an immediate medium. Every month (or thereabouts ) a magazine plops through my letterbox, and it contains all sorts of information and news [i]that I've had to make no effort to find[/i]. If I wanted to find out everything in the magazine via the internet, I'm pretty sure I could, but I might not necessarily look for it in the first place.

Basically, it exposes us to information that we might not seek out independently, and that can only be a good thing.

/babbling[/quote]


Not at all - there is a point to BGM... and I think everybody wants it to be a great read. It's just frustrating that it lets itself down on so many levels. I hate the age of the internet where hype, rumours and all other BS starts flying around. You only have to look at Chunk Systems Octavius Squeezer to see that in action... but hey. I would love BGM to be a magazine which is a right good read, with content and reviews that are solid and credible. I think they are still short of the mark.

I like having a good magazine to read, grasp, collect whatever - but as I think urb has pointed out before, we are all slightly embarassed of it. I won't go over the same points that we have been over and over again and it's true, we could go and find the information out for ourselves... but that's not the point...

but perhaps we should.

BGM can't even copy the specs off websites.

RS210 Cabinet dimensions 356(w) x 664(h) x 356(d)
RS212 Cabinet dimensions 356(w) x 664(h) x 356(d)

BGM - are you sure? Which one of you is wrong. The manufacturer? Or yourself?

...and didn't BGM question that one of the bizarre things about this amp is that whilst the head accepts a loading down to 4 ohm, it allows you, strangely enough, to run 3 of their 8 ohm cabs?? (The answer to this is actually on their wesbsite - a bit of a fob off if you ask me but there are certainly going to be readers who are thinking wtf...?)

...these are just little bits that I have noticed on first skim of the magazine... but for the sake of being boring, I don't think I should continue with more of my observations (I've found a fair few already - and is anybody actually interested in what I have to say anyway?!)

Edited May 29, 2009 by EBS_freak

[urb]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='500938' date='May 29 2009, 02:13 PM']There's been a bit of a "what's the point of BGM?" thing going on here, and I've been thinking about it. To an extent, I agree: magazines like BGM are becoming largely redundant in the internet age, and all the information contained in the magazine is freely available on the internet.

But the thing is, we're physical, tactile creatures. I, for one, love to hold and read a book, magazine or newspaper. At the risk of sounding extremely poncy, it's an immediate medium. Every month (or thereabouts ) a magazine plops through my letterbox, and it contains all sorts of information and news [i]that I've had to make no effort to find[/i]. If I wanted to find out everything in the magazine via the internet, I'm pretty sure I could, but I might not necessarily look for it in the first place.

Basically, it exposes us to information that we might not seek out independently, and that can only be a good thing.

/babbling[/quote]

Hey they said casettes would kill music... and then we got the interweb - it might have killed record sales but music is still going strong - magazines face a similar thing but the idea of setting down for a good read with your iPhone/Blackberry/laptop just doesn't do it for most people... if you're under the age of 16 and have grown up with the web then it's fair enough - but I think most people who buy mags have a bit of cash/disposable income and that in turn leads us all to buy stuff - gear in our case - and that ties in with the whole demographic of people who read mags... so there will still be a big demand for printed media for the foreseable but obviously at some point it'll become redundant. I think if BGM keeps on getting a good balance between UK and international players and keeps taking on board 'constructive' (rather than sarcastic/unhelpful) criticism then I think we should absolutely have a UK bass mag - give us something to tallk about hee anyway.

M

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='urb' post='500962' date='May 29 2009, 02:40 PM']Hey they said casettes would kill music... and then we got the interweb - it might have killed record sales but music is still going strong - magazines face a similar thing but the idea of setting down for a good read with your iPhone/Blackberry/laptop just doesn't do it for most people... if you're under the age of 16 and have grown up with the web then it's fair enough - but I think most people who buy mags have a bit of cash/disposable income and that in turn leads us all to buy stuff - gear in our case - and that ties in with the whole demographic of people who read mags... so there will still be a big demand for printed media for the foreseable but obviously at some point it'll become redundant. I think if BGM keeps on getting a good balance between UK and international players and keeps taking on board 'constructive' (rather than sarcastic/unhelpful) criticism then I think we should absolutely have a UK bass mag - give us something to tallk about hee anyway.

M[/quote]

The survival of the newspaper alone shows us that the printed word has it's own place in the digital age. There is something about paper based text that has an appeal over information that is delivered via other digital means. Who would have thought that the radio would survive with the invention of records that meant that we could play the music we wanted to play when we wanted to play it?

I hope you aren't implying that comments which have been shared on this forum alone are considered sarcastic or unhelpful because when working in the industry that BGM are, there is simply no excuse for some of the errors that are being made (again and again). This forum alone has made some excellent suggestions in the last year alone - and very few people that could make a difference seem to be taking any notice. This isn't a personal attack on anybody, it's just an observation on the quality of publication that is being distributed by a professional publishing business.

Edited May 29, 2009 by EBS_freak

[urb]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='500977' date='May 29 2009, 02:53 PM']The survival of the newspaper alone shows us that the printed word has it's own place in the digital age. There is something about paper based text that has an appeal over information that is delivered via other digital means. Who would have thought that the radio would survive with the invention of records that meant that we could play the music we wanted to play when we wanted to play it?

I hope you aren't implying that comments which have been shared on this forum alone are considered sarcastic or unhelpful because when working in the industry that BGM are, there is simply no excuse for some of the errors that are being made (again and again). This forum alone has made some excellent suggestions in the last year alone - and very few people that could make a difference seem to be taking any notice. This isn't a personal attack on anybody, it's just an observation on the quality of publication that is being distributed by a professional publishing business.[/quote]

I agree the proofing and fact checking really needs to improve - I wasn't pointing anyone in particular out - Nick is very open to all manner of suggestions but unfortunately you can't please all the people all the time and unlike magazines with surplus amounts of staff and whole teams of sub editors (I work for Time Out and even their small army of proof readers miss things!) - BGM is a very small operation with a handful of staff.

Regarding the issue of review credibilty - it's an intresting one and I kind of agree - how this is solved I don't know - I'll be happy to pass on suggestions to him and let's see what he says.

Mike