Machines Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Definitely an improvement this issue, but I still feel there's too much emphasis on expensive custom gear. The Avella Coppollo had a price of £4.5k - how many bassists do you know who can and would spend that much on a bass ? I bet there aren't many bassists in the UK with one, i'd hazard a guess at it being less than the number of fingers and toes I have. In order to try and avoid alienating the average bassist I think there is more requirement for run-of-the mill gear, even if this can be easily self-reviewed by popping down to your local Guitars'R'Us, sometimes people want an informed opinion without having to discuss the tonal nuances of spalted Rhodesian cocopop wood versus flamed Bolivian UmBongo™ laminates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='504664' date='Jun 3 2009, 01:43 PM']So sorry, mine was also light-hearted humour with a bit of acid thrown in. I will use the correct smiley in future to help you understand a bit better. OK? [/quote] Would a kitten, sack and canal take the edge off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='Machines' post='504665' date='Jun 3 2009, 01:43 PM']Definitely an improvement this issue, but I still feel there's too much emphasis on expensive custom gear. The Avella Coppollo had a price of £4.5k - how many bassists do you know who can and would spend that much on a bass ? I bet there aren't many bassists in the UK with one, i'd hazard a guess at it being less than the number of fingers and toes I have. In order to try and avoid alienating the average bassist I think there is more requirement for run-of-the mill gear, even if this can be easily self-reviewed by popping down to your local Guitars'R'Us, sometimes people want an informed opinion without having to discuss the tonal nuances of spalted Rhodesian cocopop wood versus flamed Bolivian UmBongo™ laminates.[/quote] It goes back to the old argument of whats the point of reviewing something that is readily available at your local Guitars R Us? Are people that blinkered that they have to be told that something is good as opposed to trying it out for themselves and making their own decision. I don't really hold the reviews in BGM with that much regard anyway - for reasons I have discussed earlier. I guess it depends what you want out of a magazine? Do you want it to be in the vain of What Car... (reviews for the masses) or Top Gear (pornographic reviews for the dreamers). Until the magazine decides, or is influenced by the readership, this debate will be never ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='Machines' post='504665' date='Jun 3 2009, 01:43 PM']Definitely an improvement this issue, but I still feel there's too much emphasis on expensive custom gear. The Avella Coppollo had a price of £4.5k - how many bassists do you know who can and would spend that much on a bass ? I bet there aren't many bassists in the UK with one, i'd hazard a guess at it being less than the number of fingers and toes I have. In order to try and avoid alienating the average bassist I think there is more requirement for run-of-the mill gear, even if this can be easily self-reviewed by popping down to your local Guitars'R'Us, sometimes people want an informed opinion without having to [b]discuss the tonal nuances of spalted Rhodesian cocopop wood versus flamed Bolivian UmBongo™ laminates.[/b][/quote] I hate all that nonsense too, and don't let the buggers tell you it's because of tone, it's purely so it matches the furniture at home so wifey doesn't notice it's there. And don't say I'm being sexist, a woman would never be daft enough to buy a piece of wood with mass fungal damage, much less polish it up, stick strings on it and call it "custom" for £4k. (Special EBS Smiley) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='504677' date='Jun 3 2009, 01:54 PM'] I hate all that nonsense too, and don't let the buggers tell you it's because of tone, it's purely so it matches the furniture at home so wifey doesn't notice it's there. And don't say I'm being sexist, a woman would never be daft enough to buy a piece of wood with mass fungal damage, much less polish it up, stick strings on it and call it "custom" for £4k. (Special EBS Smiley) [/quote] I don't know why you are smiling at me. I don't buy into the wood thing having amazing tonal properties etc.... I don't refer to any of my basses as being custom either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='504668' date='Jun 3 2009, 01:47 PM']Would a kitten, sack and canal take the edge off?[/quote] What are you implying? I find that sort of thing disturbing, since I hate cruelty of any sort, and have numerous cats. Get a few dreams about torturing animals do you? There's a thread about that on BC somewhere. may I direct you to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='504681' date='Jun 3 2009, 01:58 PM']What are you implying? I find that sort of thing disturbing, since I hate cruelty of any sort, and have numerous cats. Get a few dreams about torturing animals do you? There's a thread about that on BC somewhere. may I direct you to that? [/quote] Just how many sense of humour failures can one silddx have? Special silddx smiley - Chill out a bit. Anger is a bad thing. "calm down, calm down..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='504681' date='Jun 3 2009, 01:58 PM']What are you implying? I find that sort of thing disturbing, since I hate cruelty of any sort, and have numerous cats. Get a few dreams about torturing animals do you? There's a thread about that on BC somewhere. may I direct you to that? [/quote] I always thought drowning cats was one of the least cruel ways to get rid of them? Drowning is supposedly surprisingly painless. I just take mine up the garden and hit them round the head with a spade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='504680' date='Jun 3 2009, 01:58 PM']I don't know why you are smiling at me. I don't buy into the wood thing having amazing tonal properties etc.... I don't refer to any of my basses as being custom either.[/quote] You appear to have taken exception at something I've said or done. If I've offended you, please accept my sincere apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='504685' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:02 PM']Just how many sense of humour failures can one silddx have? Special silddx smiley - Chill out a bit. Anger is a bad thing. "calm down, calm down..."[/quote] Erm , I am calm, thank you. aaaaaand, breathe ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='504690' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:07 PM']You appear to have taken exception at something I've said or done. If I've offended you, please accept my sincere apology.[/quote] I've taken no exception at all. You just seemed to go off on a tangent. But as you have offered an apology, no hard feelings. (not that there was any anyway) It's that bloody psychoandy's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='504688' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:03 PM']Drowning is supposedly surprisingly painless.[/quote] Talk to a waterboardee for their opinion on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='504695' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:13 PM']Talk to a waterboardee for their opinion on that.[/quote] I think that's more the fear element. A cat slung in a bag with a load of bricks probably doesn't comprehend the fate that awaits it. Its just dark and wet. Almost like returning to the womb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 ...or the egg? Do cats lay eggs? I get confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='504699' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:17 PM']...or the egg? Do cats lay eggs? I get confused.[/quote] No - you are confusing them with dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='504674' date='Jun 3 2009, 01:52 PM']It goes back to the old argument of whats the point of reviewing something that is readily available at your local Guitars R Us? Are people that blinkered that they have to be told that something is good as opposed to trying it out for themselves and making their own decision. I don't really hold the reviews in BGM with that much regard anyway - for reasons I have discussed earlier.[/quote] I think some people (especially beginners or those with little exposure to things beyond their local store selling just Fender) would appreciate the 'professional' opinion and advice of the reviewer. It's very easy when starting out to think something is fantastic but have it turn out to be awful once you learn more about gear on the whole, this happened to me before I got into Bassworld. [quote]I guess it depends what you want out of a magazine? Do you want it to be in the vain of What Car... (reviews for the masses) or Top Gear (pornographic reviews for the dreamers). Until the magazine decides, or is influenced by the readership, this debate will be never ending.[/quote] I think a mix is required. Of course - custom basses (or boutique in this case) can't easily be tested out, so a magazine is the best format to receive an opinion in. My gripe is that the balance is heavily towards the expensive side of things at the moment. It could be down to the boutique dealers/manufacturers being more amiable than the big boys at the moment or it could be at the request of the magazine's editors/reviewers to get hold of the top end stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='504694' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:09 PM']I've taken no exception at all. You just seemed to go off on a tangent. But as you have offered an apology, no hard feelings. (not that there was any anyway) It's that bloody psychoandy's fault.[/quote] Cheers, and your right, i did go off on a tangent, and it is that bloody psychoandy's fault, racist bastard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='Machines' post='504706' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:20 PM']I think some people (especially beginners or those with little exposure to things beyond their local store selling just Fender) would appreciate the 'professional' opinion and advice of the reviewer. It's very easy when starting out to think something is fantastic but have it turn out to be awful once you learn more about gear on the whole, this happened to me before I got into Bassworld. I think a mix is required. Of course - custom basses (or boutique in this case) can't easily be tested out, so a magazine is the best format to receive an opinion in. My gripe is that the balance is heavily towards the expensive side of things at the moment. It could be down to the boutique dealers/manufacturers being more amiable than the big boys at the moment or it could be at the request of the magazine's editors/reviewers to get hold of the top end stuff.[/quote] True - but you would hope that the salespeople in the shop were a little more on the ball. Some of those guys simply are not fit for being in sales - having no knowledge of what they are selling is unforgiveable. I guess it depends what you are expecting from a magazine. If the thing was aimed at beginners, it simply wouldn't sell. The majority of people buying BGM are established players and not have any interest in new stuff. OK, maybe an article of a beginners special would be good, but I certainly wouldn't buy it if it was full of beginner gear. I am guessing there would be a lot of people who thought the same as me. [quote]It's very easy when starting out to think something is fantastic but have it turn out to be awful once you learn more about gear on the whole, this happened to me before I got into Bassworld.[/quote] There [i]has[/i] to be an Ashdown/Warwick joke in there considering the last few entries of this thread alone... but I shalln't go there. With regards to getting gear, it's what the manufacturers are willing to send. If you look at the reviews of recent times, it's not hard to work out that its down to the generosity of people like Bass Direct, the Bass Merchant etc... that they are actually getting nice things to review. If the big boys aren't providing the gear for review, doesn't that start making you ask questions...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='504710' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:28 PM']Cheers, and your right, i did go off on a tangent, and it is that bloody psychoandy's fault, racist bastard [/quote] ...and I heard that he [i]used[/i] to have a few kittens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='504714' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:31 PM']There [i]has[/i] to be an Ashdown/Warwick joke in there considering the last few entries of this thread alone... but I shalln't go there.[/quote] You don't scare me . [quote]With regards to getting gear, it's what the manufacturers are willing to send. If you look at the reviews of recent times, it's not hard to work out that its down to the generosity of people like Bass Direct, the Bass Merchant etc... that they are actually getting nice things to review. If the big boys aren't providing the gear for review, doesn't that start making you ask questions...?[/quote] Totally, I know Mark at Bass Direct would be more than helpful when it comes to this sort of thing. He's openly offered stock to me in the past for review should I feel the urge. What I don't know is are the big manufacturers unwilling to play along - or is there a lack of interest from the reviewers also ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I just bought my first issue of BGM in a while and I was pleased to note that the interviews with musicians were much better - fewer inane questions though still the odd tendancy to ask them about their view on string count (such a waste of space). Likewise the bass reviews were pretty decent but I was not at all impressed with the TC review. For starters there was no name on there and a distinct lack of real world anecdotal evidence, which led me to wonder if anyone had actually tried it. I simply don't believe that the sound remains uncoloured however loud you crank it, it's simply not possible with any amp, they all run out of steam at some point. And regardng the cabs there is hardly anything regarding tone and output. I much appreciate having my gear featured in the news section but there's not much point sending in a cab for a review in the future if the reviewer just parrots whatever's on the website or in the manual and then says it's loud and sounds balanced. It doesn't really tell anyone anything. You don't need to write about what it looks like because there are photos for that! What is needed (short of scientific testing which opens a huge can of worms anyway) is comprehensive anecdotal evidence talking about what other gear it's been used with and what musical contexts it's been tried in. And take the gear right to its limits! I know my Compact will utterly blow away any similar weight/price cab on the market in sheer fat loudness but if you don't try it on a proper loud gig then you'll never know that. It's dead easy to make an amp/cab that sounds good at home but that means nothing if the tone falls apart at gig level, or even worse it proves to be inaudible over a drummer or guitarist. Sadly I'm no longer impartial so I can't offer my services as a technical editor but surely there is someone out there that could help ensure the info in the inevitably technical amp/cab reviews remains accurate and informative? And if there isn't then the current testers just need to be fearless and demanding with the gear - push it properly hard and find out how it really performs under stress. The TC review is akin to testing a downhill mountain bike by cycling to the corner shop for a packet of fags. Also, I'd get rid of the star ratings system. If you're at the mercy of the advertisers' revenue I can't see any use in a system which could lose you business if you give something less than 5/5. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='504725' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:54 PM']The TC review is akin to testing a downhill mountain bike by cycling to the corner shop for a packet of fags. Alex[/quote] I haven't read that review yet, looking forward to doing so now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='504725' date='Jun 3 2009, 02:54 PM']The TC review is akin to testing a downhill mountain bike by cycling to the corner shop for a packet of fags.[/quote] At least with that one they had some testimony from a couple of guys who'd used the stuff in a live situation. That's a huge improvement over other recent BGM reviews where it sounds like they tried some stuff out in a shop for 5 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='504732' date='Jun 3 2009, 03:02 PM']At least with that one they had some testimony from a couple of guys who'd used the stuff in a live situation. That's a huge improvement over other recent BGM reviews where it sounds like they tried some stuff out in a shop for 5 minutes.[/quote] Alex's posts pretty much reiterates some of the comments I made earlier in the thread (http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45316&view=findpost&p=500955 and [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45316&view=findpost&p=501100)"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...t&p=501100)[/url] BGMs review for me, just are not credible. The problem with the guys that chose to provide a testimony are not a good sample either... read my earlier posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='504750' date='Jun 3 2009, 03:29 PM']Alex's posts pretty much reiterates some of the comments I made earlier in the thread (http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45316&view=findpost&p=500955 and [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45316&view=findpost&p=501100)"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...t&p=501100)[/url] BGMs review for me, just are not credible. The problem with the guys that chose to provide a testimony are not a good sample either... read my earlier posts.[/quote] Yup, point taken. I hadn't seen the mag yet when you posted that, so it hadn't meant anything to me at the time. And I don't really know anything about Ben Epstein and Janek Gwaz... Gwezz... Gwizzleybear... yeah, him. Note to self: re-read relevant posts before posting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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