Pedals or straight to amp?

[uk_lefty]

I have been round the houses with a number of options but for gigs you always need confidence in your sound whether you have room for a pedal board or not. The quandary is that a pre amp pedal that sounds great with one of your basses might sound awful with another, E. G. An EHX Batallion sounded great with my passive P bass but awful with my active jazz. If you have a Helix already and it's creating unwanted noise then you really need to get under the hood of what it is doing so you can tweak it to get rid of what you don't like and build up some good basic tones for your go to basses. The PC based editor is really easy to use and there are good presets available for free on the Line 6 forum and elsewhere so you could try some of those and experiment with pulling out bits you don't like or don't want. You can easily build up settings from scratch too: I had one called "Nowt" because it had nowt in it for when I just want to bypass, I've got others where there is a compressor and pre amp I can switch on and off by footswitches, nothing else going on, nothing fancy. Since you have it I'd recommend persevering with the Helix and starting off with basics. 

[Muzz]

This, above...I have some tweaked versions of presets on my Stomp sounds for the rare occasions I use a passive bass, the others all work with any bass because all my basses have split-P pickups and John East EQs, and sound broadly similar. The advantage is I can use the Stomp direct in, or into any of the combinations of amp I have, from 112 100w Combo to Stoopid Stack, and I'm at least ballpark all the time...

[SteveXFR]

1 hour ago, Cat Burrito said:

I've predominately been a bass straight into amp kind of player but I have a post punk / 80s alternative band at the moment where I am having lots of fun with different effects on the bass (& drum machines, samples - things I haven't really used before). Never say never. 

 

I've started playing more punk recently and finding a tube preamp pedal really adds that bit of a nasty edge and clank that suits punk well without getting to a fizzy overdrive sound. I can get my Stingray sounding very close to the bass on Peaches by Stranglers.

[Dood]

Last night I played pedals with no amp at all, no amp or cabinets its.. it was wonderful - but, I do have a really lovely amp rig that sounds stunning with no pedals. (especially with just my old P bass plugged in! WOW!)  It depends on the gig I suppose! I use what I need to.  

[JapanAxe]

In one of my previous bands I first used a Boss Multi FX, later a board of 3 individual pedals. It was fun but not really necessary, and these days I just use a tuner pedal. I never find myself thinking, ‘I wish I had X pedal for this bit.’

 

I do still try my bass through pedals for fun at home from time to time though.

[Storky]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

What is it about your sound that you are not happy with?

Last week it was boomy, lacked definition and clarity. As I mentioned earlier, it was better once I removed the Helix LT which surprised me. Even then the speaker was a bit “farty” like it couldn’t handle the power from the valve amp (120 watts vs 600 watts that the speaker should be able to cope with).

[Storky]

1 hour ago, uk_lefty said:

I have been round the houses with a number of options but for gigs you always need confidence in your sound whether you have room for a pedal board or not. The quandary is that a pre amp pedal that sounds great with one of your basses might sound awful with another, E. G. An EHX Batallion sounded great with my passive P bass but awful with my active jazz. If you have a Helix already and it's creating unwanted noise then you really need to get under the hood of what it is doing so you can tweak it to get rid of what you don't like and build up some good basic tones for your go to basses. The PC based editor is really easy to use and there are good presets available for free on the Line 6 forum and elsewhere so you could try some of those and experiment with pulling out bits you don't like or don't want. You can easily build up settings from scratch too: I had one called "Nowt" because it had nowt in it for when I just want to bypass, I've got others where there is a compressor and pre amp I can switch on and off by footswitches, nothing else going on, nothing fancy. Since you have it I'd recommend persevering with the Helix and starting off with basics. 

That sounds sensible, I haven’t got to grips with how to use the Helix LT not having used any kind of effects in the past.

[Tee]

I prefer straight into an amp. I like a 'tuner out' on a head so that it's not inline. A compressor is likely the only thing I would have in front though.

[NancyJohnson]

20 hours ago, WinterMute said:

It really helps to understand that every bass amp is a pre-amp and power amp combination, and that running pedals into the pre on a "bass" or "guitar" amp is running a pre-amp into a pre-amp on many occasions, gain staging being what it is, that often makes it difficult to get the balance of tones right, and many prefer the straight to amp approach.

 

 

This ^^^ x1000.  Christ, they need to write this in every manual going.

 

I've had my live tone positively commented on many, many times.  I was never happy just plugging in, too much 'ponk'. [Edit/addition: I favour a bit of a Geddy/dUg tone, controlled dirt/clank.]

 

About 25 years ago I had a lay-off from playing, sold everything except from an old Precision bass.  At a mate's insistence (he's a drummer), we took a visit to Andertons and he said to try plugging a Bass POD into the effects return on an Ashdown Mag combo; I thought he was nuts, but it was an aah-there-it-is moment of clarity (cue angels singing) - through the front input jack the POD was just mush, overloading a pre-amp by plugging another pre-amp into it.  From then on, irrespective of the amp, it's always been into the FX return or into a poweramp.

Edited August 21, 2021 by NancyJohnson

[geoham]

I've done both, and for me it depends on what I'm playing.

 

When I've played in originals bands, I normally keep the same sound for much of the often short set and usually just went straight to the amp. I did use effects occasionally in my most recent originals band - mostly amp simulation or a Sansamp patch on my Zoom B3. The goal was a consistent tone when playing via shared backlines which are common at originals gigs. But if was able to use my own amp at every gig I wouldn't have bothered with effects. In my first couple of originals bands, I don't even think I could have afforded any effects!

 

When playing covers, I use effects extensively - these days via a Helix. Basically, I normally have about 40 songs to do in a night covering a fair mix of material and need to be able to get a sound quickly. I have two basic tones that cover much of the set and I tweak with pickup selection and the tone knob. One is a traditional sounding clean tone -  think the Eagles, Rolling Stones, Ocean Colour Scene. The other is a more mid-focused slightly driven Ampeg SVT style sound - covering things like the Who, Stranglers, Biffy Clyro. I've also got these patches set up with switchable drive (of varying degrees!), octave and chorus. There are also a few songs in the set with their own dedicated patches - Hysteria (Muse), Figure it Out (Royal Blood) and Sledgehammer.

 

[BigRedX]

40 minutes ago, Storky said:

Last week it was boomy, lacked definition and clarity. As I mentioned earlier, it was better once I removed the Helix LT which surprised me. Even then the speaker was a bit “farty” like it couldn’t handle the power from the valve amp (120 watts vs 600 watts that the speaker should be able to cope with).

 

Has it been OK in the past with the same set up?  

 

Could it be down to the room where you were playing? If it is, then there is a limited amount of things you can do to make it sound good, because bad acoustics are a mixture of time domain and frequency domain problems, and without using acoustic treatment to fix the time domain problems the best you can do is EQ to make it sound good where you are standing and hope that you haven't made it sound even worse in other parts of the room.

 

If removing the Helix made it sound better, then you have something on the Helix doing something you don't like. Go through the effects blocks one by one turning them on and off and you'll quickly find the culprit and then either remove it or adjust it until the sound is good. I would start by looking at anything that is adding EQ or boosting the signal. IMO, EQ should be done at one place, and one place only, in the signal chain and you should always aim to cut the frequencies you don't want rather than boosting the ones you do. 

 

Ultimately it might be that you simply don't have the right bass/amp/cab(s) for the sound that you are after. To a certain extent valve amps are supposed to sound a bit "farty" The whole point of them is to add that nice 2nd harmonic distortion "warmth" to the sound. The other thing to bear in mind is that a certain amount of dirt is very beneficial to binding the sound of the bass together with all the other instruments. Remember what sounds good when playing on your own at home doesn't necessarily work with the rest of the band in the mix. Have listen to any of the isolated bass videos from the "great" players that are available on YouTube and you'll be surprised by just how much distortion is present in the bass sounds!

[BadHands]

I always used to play with effects - as the music I loved often had them on - and the sound of clean bass bored me to tears. It was fun to play with all these different sounds and have different options, but I definitely found my clean tone boring.

 

Now I'm a little older, a little wiser, and have a great P bass and Stingray, and honestly?

 

The pedals sound EVEN better!

Edited August 20, 2021 by BadHands
Grammar

[BadHands]

Also, to be a bit more helpful to the OP:

 

If you ask this question in the effects forum, you're likely to end up with a vastly different consensus of opinion. If you're curious about effects, perhaps try an overdrive, distortion of fuzz with a great reputation for bass.

 

Fundamentally though, this is about art - either it's all unneccesary or none of it is.

[Skybone]

I do like my effects. So much so, I've been using an HD500x for the last 5 years, plugged in to the effects return of my amp.

 

The HD's only just been upgraded to a POD Go. Helix sounds on tap, but with a few limitations. Sounds wonderful.

[BassAdder60]

Ok this comment may be a bit hard for some to relate to but using a pick on the bass to me has opened up my bass tone more so than a pedal or amp EQ 

 

I know there are pick haters in the bass world but it’s the one method that really brings out the tone of a bass and adds to volume and clarity out of an amp.

 

Its worth trying it and you will hear tones that are often flubby in comparison using fingers 

 

Try it and see 

[geoham]

2 minutes ago, BassAdder27 said:

Ok this comment may be a bit hard for some to relate to but using a pick on the bass to me has opened up my bass tone more so than a pedal or amp EQ 

 

I know there are pick haters in the bass world but it’s the one method that really brings out the tone of a bass and adds to volume and clarity out of an amp.

 

Its worth trying it and you will hear tones that are often flubby in comparison using fingers 

 

Try it and see 

You are absolutely correct. There's no doubt a pick can have a massive impact on your tone. There's about half a dozen covers in our set where it's a necessity as far as I'm concerned. It's a skill that all bassists should have in their arsenal.

 

George

[BadHands]

6 hours ago, BassAdder27 said:

I know there are pick haters in the bass world

Ignore them, and the "bUt JaCo DiDnT UsE eFfEcTs" crowd

[Downunderwonder]

Your boom problem with Handbox and Helix sounds like a failure to adjust to the room. 'Boom' usually lives in your lower mids as a floor ceiling resonance or deeper as a wall to wall one.

 

If you are good with the mental arithmetic you can figure it out by knowing the speed of sound and the 1st resonance is where the distance is half the wavelength.

 

V=f.L

 

solve for speed of sound V, frequency f, wavelength is twice distance.

 

1100ft/sec= freq. X 2D

 

Sometimes it's the acoustic guitar booming away and everyone is looking daggers at you because most of the bass frequency energy is actually in the next octave above the 'piano' fundamental note. The guitar is there too with his fundamentals.

[Triumph_Rock]

I'm another straight to amp player. Haven't used a pedal yet. I really like my sound. Although I should explain I have a Positive Grid Bias Amp Head. I have spent quite awhile designing my own unique sound through the software. If I go down pedal route I will buy the FX 2 software from Positive Grid, and one of there pedals. Then I have any pedal at my finger tips.

[Doddy]

9 hours ago, BadHands said:

Ignore them, and the "bUt JaCo DiDnT UsE eFfEcTs" crowd

Well, Jaco used to use the fuzz in his Acoustic 360 amp and an MXR digital delay live, so a statement like that would just be plain wrong.

[DiMarco]

Besides that Jaco is f**cking dead. He does not play anything. I'm so tired of fanbois bringing him up every chance they get to poison topics with that crap.

And the best bit: Those that do usually don't sound ANYTHING like Jaco whatever bass, amount of strings or effects they do or don't use. Just shove it.

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by DiMarco

[paul_5]

3 hours ago, Triumph_Rock said:

Then I have any pedal at my finger tips.

Erm, it’s more convenient to use yer feet…

 

seriously though, I can’t  remember the last time I gigged without pedals, indeed most of my (currently scant) dep gigs come from having a wealth of sounds to replicate anything from synth basses to bootsy-esque squelches through to utter filth.

Horses for courses though.

[neepheid]

1 hour ago, DiMarco said:

Besides that Jaco is f**cking dead. He does not play anything. I'm so tired of fanbois bringing him up every chance they get to poison topics with that crap.

And the best bit: Those that do usually don't sound ANYTHING like Jaco whatever bass, amount of strings or effects they do or don't use. Just shove it.

 

 

 

 

If it's any consolation (and to bring some balance to your world) I have never knowingly listened to Jaco play. All I know without resorting to Google is he played a fretless Jazz which didn't start off being fretless (something about boat varnish?) and I think he died as a result of an altercation outside a licensed establishment.

 

Also I dislike Jazz basses, I think they sound weedy (passive ones anyway) and I can't stand their big, goofy, ungainly, slightly melty body shape.

 

Better? Hate spread a bit more equally now?

[Leonard Smalls]

I'me tending more and more towards overkill...

I use a dual channel DBX compressor into BBE preamp into Crown 1500w power amp.

But there's also a sneaky pedalboard with 4 loops plus clean - Future Impact/FwonkBeta and Darkglass tube distortion/BassWhammy and 3Leaf Proton/EBS bass wah. By fiddling about with the Wounded Paw Blender these are attached to I can get all sorts of crazy wah distorted synthed octave sounds mixed with as much clean as I want, which I can further blend into the BBE's own tone shaping and overdrive...

Me, I like knobs'n'buttons'n'complication!

[Munurmunuh]

48 minutes ago, neepheid said:

If it's any consolation I have never knowingly listened to Jaco play.

 

Some time after joining BC and TB, I went to listen all these revered bassists (Jaco, Geddy, Thingy, Wotsit) and immediately realised that a defining feature of a Highly Acclaimed Bassist is playing music which would I would find insufferable even without their eye-catching contributions. Then I put the Sister Sledge back on.