Vegan strap?

[tegs07]

Just now, Woodinblack said:

 

Not sure of your point - as I said, I am not a vegetarian, so I have nothing to defend here. My statement isn't whether something is ethical or good or environmentally friendly or not - especially the latter. If we cared about the environment we would be getting rid of people and maybe using their skin, that would be better.

 

It is purely down to how the person who is buying something feels about it, whether they are happy with it or not.

Quite a simple point - you asked if I’d be happy with the flayed dead skin of an animal around my shoulders which is a bit emotive so I responded and raised some points for discussion. I thought that was the point of a debate???

[tegs07]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

Who are we keeping them alive for?

For people that like eating meat and upholstering their cars and furniture presumably.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I bought the yellow strap with a black go-faster stripe as it goes with my yellow mustang and is comfy. I'm not sure yet whether it is actually vegan as it has so far refused to eat anything I have offered it.

[ambient]

10 hours ago, Cat Burrito said:

I think that there is a lot of truth in that. I guess people go into things for different reasons. My wife can't stand the vegan cheese slices I like (she's also vegan) and I think the substitutes can be great for people who just want a flexi diet or perhaps are new to it. But yeah, people do like a moan. We're human after all. 

I’m put off by the fake meat things you can buy, they just don’t look appealing - probably too realistic?

 

I’ve tried a few of the vegan cheeses and really don’t like them. Saying that though, I bought a tub of Sainsbury’s vegan soft cheese today to use in a cheesecake. It’s made from coconut, so hopefully should work well.

[ambient]

6 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

I bought the yellow strap with a black go-faster stripe as it goes with my yellow mustang and is comfy. I'm not sure yet whether it is actually vegan as it has so far refused to eat anything I have offered it.

I’m sure it would have told you in the first minute if it had been vegan, you should send it back.

[tegs07]

2 minutes ago, ambient said:

I’m put off by the fake meat things you can buy, they just don’t look appealing - probably too realistic?

 

I’ve tried a few of the vegan cheeses and really don’t like them. Saying that though, I bought a tub of Sainsbury’s vegan soft cheese today to use in a cheesecake. It’s made from coconut, so hopefully should work well.

I go through periods of being vegan and agree most of the substitute stuff is unpleasant and heavily processed. I also have to steer myself away from too much coconut milk as it’s very fattening.

[Woodinblack]

26 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Quite a simple point - you asked if I’d be happy with the flayed dead skin of an animal around my shoulders which is a bit emotive so I responded and raised some points for discussion. I thought that was the point of a debate???

 

No, I said it was a simple point, whether you wanted it or not. I didn't refer to 'you' are in you, or any other specific person. It wasn't really a debatable thing as it depends entirely on your (as in 'ones') point of view - some people are happy with it, some people are not, and if you are not, all kind of other considerations are irrelevant.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Woodinblack

[Woodinblack]

25 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

For people that like eating meat and upholstering their cars and furniture presumably.

 

So we have to keep eating them as otherwise they would die out, and if they died out they wouldn't be there to eat

 

Indeed, one of those pointless arguments. But then my point for that bit was Zoos, and what the point of breeding programs there are. Never got that. Whats the point saving a Grey Rhino* or whatever, if there is no natural habitat where it can live? Not like things are going to get better and one day there will be a habitat for them again!

 

*other endangered species are probably still available

[tegs07]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

 

No, I said it was a simple point, whether you wanted it or not. I didn't refer to 'you' are in you, or any other specific person. It wasn't really a debatable thing as it depends entirely on your (as in 'ones') point of view - some people are happy with it, some people are not, and if you are not, all kind of other considerations are irrelevant.

Sorry I thought this was a general discussion. I stand corrected. No I would not buy a new leather or vegan strap possibly because I am a skin flint or maybe for ethics ( won’t go into that as it probably slips into your irrelevant criteria) but would get a second hand leather one. It does age well, particularly when treated with Brookes saddle cream. This is not vegan but does taste like vegan mayonnaise.

[Bolo]

On 21/08/2021 at 22:27, Woodinblack said:

an average of 2 million cats and dogs to produce it as you can't tell the difference anyway.

 

A bit late to the topic but having been a cobbler for 15years prior to my current career I can assure you dog skin is unsuitable for leather and cat is too small making it too labor intensive (expensive) when there's whole pig or cow available.

 

The fur however is often used as liner and adornment like you see on the hooded puffer jackets, but in the EU has to pass inspection and be honest about it's origin.

 

Leather is fairly easy to tell apart by traits like structure, elasticity, pattern of pores (dogs don't have pores which is the main reason why their skin is useless), tear resistance (north African goat is always distinctly easy to tear and the smell never really goes away) and line pattern (look at the palm of your hand for example).

 

Much European cow leather is good quality thanks to electric wire fences, whereas Argentinian cattle often shows scars from thorn bushes, parasitic insects and barbed wire fencing.

 

I'm sorry it's late and I'm rambling instead of sleeping.

[BillyBass]

47 minutes ago, inthedoghouse said:

Followers of Jainism certainly wouldn't disagree with you there.

Jains believe it's wrong to kill sentient beings.  Buddhists believe it's wrong to intentionally kill sentient beings.  Nevertheless, doing something without intending to kill but knowing that it will result in death is sailing close to the wind.  This is why when discussing 'right livelihood' the Buddha didn't promote farming as a job.

 

55 minutes ago, inthedoghouse said:

I'm the guy who rescues a drowning fly from the water butt and goes back to check on it later 🙂

Me too.

 

I don't believe in trying to change the world, however, I don't like to see beings suffer.

[Woodinblack]

22 minutes ago, ambient said:

I’ve tried a few of the vegan cheeses and really don’t like them.

 

I am not a fan of vegan cheese, but M&S Plant kitchen not-zarrella - I could live off that.

[Woodinblack]

5 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Sorry I thought this was a general discussion. I stand corrected.

 

It is - but without labouring the point again, is that it is totally irrelevant what someone else believes is ethical / not ethical / sustainable / environmentally friendly etc, to a person who doesn't want to wear a part of an animal.

 

 

[tegs07]

7 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

It is - but without labouring the point again, is that it is totally irrelevant what someone else believes is ethical / not ethical / sustainable / environmentally friendly etc, to a person who doesn't want to wear a part of an animal.

 

 

You do realise I’m just being facetious?

[Woodinblack]

2 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

You do realise I’m just being facetious?

 

If it had been last month, I would have had a clue, but having spent too long in the vaccine and 'kids of today' posts over the last few weeks, I no longer have much faith in humanity.

[ambient]

19 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I am not a fan of vegan cheese, but M&S Plant kitchen not-zarrella - I could live off that.

I haven’t tried that. I do like their Plant kitchen range. I’ll check it out 🙏.

[SteveXFR]

9 hours ago, tegs07 said:

I was a vegetarian for nearly 30 years until I spent some time with a friend who runs a small holding. The care, time and expense of raising livestock is quite extraordinary. He largely feeds his family from what he produces and the veg only goes so far. Nothing is wasted, including the flayed dead skin as you call it. It was an interesting experience. I eat meat now, but try to eat small quantities from a reputable butcher wherever possible. I don’t like the idea of industrial production of meat but at the other end of the spectrum I am not sure what the future of many animals that have been traditionally farmed would be without a market for meat and it’s byproducts. At best as as prey for predators in the wild (have you ever seen what a domestic dog is capable of) and at worst many are so domesticated they would just die out as breeds that are no longer capable of survival without human intervention. There is also the issue of where they could live in the overcrowded world with declining natural habitats.

 

There is a very big difference between animals reared on a traditional farm with a caring farmer and meat produced on a high volume farm which is more like a factory. I've spent time around both and I only buy meat which I know has come from good, local farms.

I've seen what a domestic dog can do, I saw an Irish wolf hound attack a two day old miniature pony foal. It went straight for the throat. Fortunately the stallion kicked the dog and it ran off before it killed the foal but it went on to kill two goats before a farmer shot it. The dogs owner paid for the horses vet fees and the dead goats under threat of prosecution.

[tegs07]

44 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

There is a very big difference between animals reared on a traditional farm with a caring farmer and meat produced on a high volume farm which is more like a factory. I've spent time around both and I only buy meat which I know has come from good, local farms.

I've seen what a domestic dog can do, I saw an Irish wolf hound attack a two day old miniature pony foal. It went straight for the throat. Fortunately the stallion kicked the dog and it ran off before it killed the foal but it went on to kill two goats before a farmer shot it. The dogs owner paid for the horses vet fees and the dead goats under threat of prosecution.

I agree re small scale farming. It’s a vocation not exploitation from what I have witnessed. Sheep in particular are just desperate to be turned into lamp chops. I have never seen animals needing so much time and energy just to stop them killing themselves and that’s without predators. I once saw a small family pet dog loose in a friends field. We are not talking pit bull just your average fluff- ball mongrel mutilate 3 sheep in a matter of minutes before it was brought under control.

 

Foxes and chickens are on another level. Even digging a foot down and using wire mesh the swines got in and I swear they do this for sport as much as food. Had to resort to a concrete trench in the end.

Edited August 24, 2021 by tegs07

[SteveXFR]

14 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

 

Foxes and chickens are on another level. Even digging a foot down and using wire mesh the swines got in and I swear they do this for sport as much as food. Had to resort to a concrete trench in the end.

 

We've been lucky with our chickens. At night they're in their sheds and during the day our dogs keep foxes away. We probably lose 2 or 3 a year. What surprised me was when a fox took our geese.

[tegs07]

23 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

What surprised me was when a fox took our geese

Well they don’t call them cunning without reason but yes Geese aren’t delicate and serene. I was happier dealing with the pigs than the geese. One was frankly terrifying but I am a squeamish city wuss.

[NancyJohnson]

Just back on topic, I've used 2" wide Levy's extra-long polypropylene straps for longer than I can remember.  100% vegan.

 

(Before anyone goes off on one, yes I know the bulk of Levy's business is leather based.)

[Cat Burrito]

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

Just back on topic, I've used 2" wide Levy's extra-long polypropylene straps for longer than I can remember.  100% vegan.

 

(Before anyone goes off on one, yes I know the bulk of Levy's business is leather based.)

*back on topic* 😸

 

Personally I like it when companies have a vegan line. With everyone from Greggs through to the fast food burger outlets doing the same, it just helps give people more options. Obviously with Levy's there is less chance of any cross contamination than at McDonalds but it's good to see it moving into the mainstream.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

Just back on topic, I've used 2" wide Levy's extra-long polypropylene straps for longer than I can remember.  100% vegan.

 

I have one of those, and it is quite good, but not a favourite. However, quite small so it fits in the gig back as a spare for those times when the guitarist forgets to bring a strap (which is not as common as you would think)

[bartelby]

Strap arrived! Stops the worst of the neck dive. 

[Woodinblack]

9 minutes ago, bartelby said:

Strap arrived! Stops the worst of the neck dive. 
 

 

Chop the headstock off it will solve the rest!