Deciding on a filter

[NJE]

I am trying to build a pedal board of the bass essentials; octave, filter, fuzz, chorus and eventually a compressor.

 

I have had some great guidance on fuzz but I think a filter might be next on my list as a few good ones have come up secondhand.

 

I really want a down-sweep, so that leaves me with a current shortlist of:

Aguilar filter twin

EBS BassIQ

Emma Discumbobulator

 

Any strong recommendations out of those? Any others with downsweep that I should be thinking of that are readily available? I’d love a proton or wonderlove but they are like unicorn tears.

[fretmeister]

The Source Audio Spectrum is amazing. Well worth an audition.

[Doddy]

The Discumbobulator is one of my most used pedals. I love it. It plays nicely with my basses and sounds killer after an octave pedal. I've got a load of filters but this is my go to.

I only ever use it in it's upward sweep mode. For a killer down sweep filter, I love the Seamoon Funk Machine.

[NJE]

I have seen the Discumbobulator appear on a few high profile boards over the years, so knew it must be a decent filter.

 

Is it not great in down sweep mode, or is just a slight preference to the Seamoon?

[Doddy]

2 hours ago, NJE said:

 

Is it not great in down sweep mode, or is just a slight preference to the Seamoon?

There's nothing wrong with the down sweep on the EMMA, I just really like it's upward sweep. It's that classic, quacky filter sound.

The Seamoon only does a down sweep, but it just does it so well. It's that great sound that Neil Jason used to use a lot.

[knicknack]

@NJE You were enquiring about my Proton, so i'd suggest the Discombobulator... I've used one a bunch and it's got a similar wah-like feel!

[lee650]

Just going on filters with up/down sweep (The MXR bass Envelope filter,is a must try, but only does upsweep) so won't include the few I've had with just up.

 

I had the Discombobulator (V2) for a while, and i must admit i was disappointed. I found it to be too subtle for my tastes. It has a nice bubbly tone, but doesn't have that dirty squelch. I also had noise issues with mine, it kept making a weird whistling sound when daisy chained in a power supply(or indeed near). The Down sweep was incredibly noisy too, I just couldn't use it. Note these issues went away when I plugged it in on its own,also at the time I wanted to use it as part of an Octave/fuzz setup,I think it works better alone.

 

I also had the Bass IQ, I am a big fan of EBS pedals,but was really dissapointed with this. In fairness I was new to filters at the time, but found that the lack of sensitivity control, meant the filter would overload with certain basses. I'd just get this bassy indistinct WHOMP. 

 

My favourite for up and down sweep is the original big box Qtron, but hard to find and going for daft money. Huge size and horrible 24v power req aside, it really sucked your tone when bypassed (I'd stick in in a true bypass loop)

 

I loved my old wonderlove and used it exclusively for downsweep, a great filter for synth combos, buy again subtle on its own, despite the amount of control. Having a loop after the envelope detector was fantastic though.

 

Had an VJE Mini MU, which is apparently a very close mutron clone. Loads of control but alas,I could not get a useable sound out of it. I couldn't get it to work with my basses without a huge bassy spike, that nearly took out my cabs. I have to say though, it was the most beautiful pedal I've ever owned, so well made and the colour was called cosmos, which looked purple, but with glittery multicolour sparkles. And the wiring was sublime. It again another filter that was really noisy,with my setup.

 

I've yet to find my perfect filter,but in currently using a few in my source Audio C4, they sound great, but still not for me. I suspect if I ever try a seamoon funk machine, I will fall in love 😂

 

Hopefully our @BootsyWill be along, he is a filter Guru 😁

Edited August 24, 2021 by lee650

[Bo0tsy]

There's plenty of knowledgeable folks on this forum when it comes to envelope filters, which are one of the most subjective of effects, and what you like often come down to personal experience, your bass and your set-up. 

 

Of the three you mentioned, I haven't tried the Filter Twin, I had a EBS Bass IQ but wasn't a huge fan, (just a bit murky sounding to me) and still have a DiscumBOBulator (v1). The Emma is a really good filter, not as resonant/peaky as some other filters, but if you are looking for a funky quack, easy to dial in then it's a great candidate. Caveats being that IME the DiscumBOBulator likes an active or hotter output bass, and the down-sweep is sweet but on the milder side.

 

Of the other filters out there, Mu-Tron Micro-Tron IV is awesome but not cheap. They've just got a UK supplier (Joespedals.com - no affiliation), @Al Krow will attest how good the latest v4 Proton is, but like you say good luck finding one. Maxon AF-9 is also really underrated and will get you into Mu-Tron territory and is similar size as the others with a down-sweep. Sometimes those old big box Q-Trons do come up cheap on eBay and as @lee650 mentioned they're really great filters. They do sound sweeter than the current EHX iteration. EHX Enigma Q-Balls can be trickier to dial in but has a huge array of sounds in it, though I prefer an up/down sweep switch personally than the stop/start controls on the Enigma.

 

The newer Source Audio Spectrum and C4 have lots of fans on this forum. I've no experience with these, as prefer a simpler analogue filter myself, but they're meant to able to cop the sounds of most of the well-known filters out there.

 

Good luck on your search!

[knicknack]

There's a Fwonkbeta in the classifieds that could be worth a try. They sound pretty fun! 

[lee650]

4 hours ago, knicknack said:

There's a Fwonkbeta in the classifieds that could be worth a try. They sound pretty fun! 

Yeah a very dirty filter, no downsweep, but sounds great in demos. Definately on my want list.

[SumOne]

5 minutes ago, lee650 said:

Yeah a very dirty filter, no downsweep, but sounds great in demos. Definately on my want list.

I guess it all depends on setup but I found it uncontrollably loud and peaky, needed a compressor after it. Good fwonky sounds though.

[TheGreek]

I'm surprised about a couple of comments about being disappointed with the EBS Bass IQ.

I've only heard good things about these - I bought one of the basis of positive feedback. I can say that I'm not disappointed with mine - does everything I need it to do.

[NJE]

I bloody love basschat! Thanks for your comments and suggestions. 
 

The last time I used pedals was 20 years ago so I am so out of the loop on what’s available.

 

Some Of the suggestions are amazing, but also have some hefty price tags so it will probably be a case of waiting for secondhand pedals.

 

I liked the sound of the BassIQ but it did sound a little milder than other pedals, but not worse. The Discumbobulator seems to be generally well thought of but the potential noise issue could drive me nuts as I mostly use laptop and headphones at home.

 

The Maxon needs further investigation and so does the Seamoon. I have been loving some Neil Jason videos!

[Higgie]

8 hours ago, Bo0tsy said:

There's plenty of knowledgeable folks on this forum when it comes to envelope filters, which are one of the most subjective of effects, and what you like often come down to personal experience, your bass and your set-up. 

 

Of the three you mentioned, I haven't tried the Filter Twin, I had a EBS Bass IQ but wasn't a huge fan, (just a bit murky sounding to me) and still have a DiscumBOBulator (v1). The Emma is a really good filter, not as resonant/peaky as some other filters, but if you are looking for a funky quack, easy to dial in then it's a great candidate. Caveats being that IME the DiscumBOBulator likes an active or hotter output bass, and the down-sweep is sweet but on the milder side.

 

Of the other filters out there, Mu-Tron Micro-Tron IV is awesome but not cheap. They've just got a UK supplier (Joespedals.com - no affiliation), @Al Krow will attest how good the latest v4 Proton is, but like you say good luck finding one. Maxon AF-9 is also really underrated and will get you into Mu-Tron territory and is similar size as the others with a down-sweep. Sometimes those old big box Q-Trons do come up cheap on eBay and as @lee650 mentioned they're really great filters. They do sound sweeter than the current EHX iteration. EHX Enigma Q-Balls can be trickier to dial in but has a huge array of sounds in it, though I prefer an up/down sweep switch personally than the stop/start controls on the Enigma.

 

The newer Source Audio Spectrum and C4 have lots of fans on this forum. I've no experience with these, as prefer a simpler analogue filter myself, but they're meant to able to cop the sounds of most of the well-known filters out there.

 

Good luck on your search!

So glad someone else brought up the AF9. I’ve had a couple in the past and recently bought another. It’s a really cool pedal and the down filter is great on it. The original Subdecay Prometheus is also an incredible pedal. Lots of tweakability, up/down/step filter modes (the latter  being able to be tuned into an autowah with the step and speed controls) and a DLX version if you’re feeling fancy!

 

Had the Filter Twin before and that too is a great pedal, with some unique sounds available. However there’s not much to tweak so can be difficult to really dial in what you are looking for. 
 

 

[AJ567]

+1 on the Spectrum, it can do a good impression of all the filters you mention plus a whole lot more. 

 

 

[lee650]

I'm now waiting for NJE to start an Octave and Chorus thread 😁

[NJE]

49 minutes ago, lee650 said:

I'm now waiting for NJE to start an Octave and Chorus thread 😁

🤣 got the octave sorted (for now) I bought an OC-2 from this very parish as it seems to be the benchmark for many people.

 

Also chorus wise I may go cheap and simple and get the Boss or TC, or I do like the Providence chorus which is a bit more expensive. Got to focus on filter and then probably fuzz.

 

after that it will be how to power it all and what order etc so expect more threads eventually 😄

[SumOne]

My Filter up+down sweep shopping list is:  Wonderlove, 00Funk, Micro-tron IV, Maxon AF-9. Unfortunately, other than the AF-9 none seem easily available from shops and the AF-9 is fairly pricy at £184. At that price, on paper it's hard to argue against a Spectrum that's actually slightly cheaper (£182) other than the fact that I owned one and there's something I can't quite put my finger on but it didn't do it for me, perhaps it's the interface or perhaps it's a bit too controlled/tame/predictable  (that's what I thought about the EBS too).  Plus, it's very tempting to then spend another £100+ on additional control to get more presets without having your phone/laptop plugged in.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by SumOne

[Al Krow]

On 24/08/2021 at 08:44, Bo0tsy said:

@Al Krow will attest how good the latest v4 Proton is...

 

Yup!

 

Tbf one did come up in the FS just very recently, but it had gone within a few hours...

[NJE]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

 

Yup!

 

Tbf one did come up in the FS just very recently, but it had gone within a few hours...

Yeah I saw it within minutes of being posted and waited until I had dinner to message. Im still bitter 😄

[NJE]

5 hours ago, SumOne said:

My Filter up+down sweep shopping list is:  Wonderlove, 00Funk, Micro-tron IV, Maxon AF-9. Unfortunately, other than the AF-9 none seem easily available from shops and the AF-9 is fairly pricy at £184. At that price, on paper it's hard to argue against a Spectrum that's actually slightly cheaper (£182) other than the fact that I owned one and there's something I can't quite put my finger on but it didn't do it for me, perhaps it's the interface or perhaps it's a bit too controlled/tame/predictable  (that's what I thought about the EBS too).  Plus, it's very tempting to then spend another £100+ on additional control to get more presets without having your phone/laptop plugged in.

 

 

 

 

This is the conclusion I am coming to, everything that seems to get universally good reviews is really expensive and pretty much sold out apart from the AF-9.

 

The Spectrum sound great and there’s so much flexibility, but I could see myself endlessly tinkering and not just playing and getting on with it.

 

The Filter Twin is now sold so I am toying with a Discumbobulator. I could always sell it on if it doesn’t work out I guess. 
 

I am still intrigued by the Seamoon but need to look at how much they are.

[NJE]

Bought something, let’s see if it turns up ok. 😎

[Misdee]

I've got an Aguilar Filter Twin and it's really good. I think I like it so much because it has some "personality", for want of a better term, and also because it seems to have an organic warmth to its sound. Very wel made, too.

 

For me the biggest challenge with a envelope filter is finding a musical context to use it in. It's a bit like drummers in big time rock groups back in the '70s who had a big gong  behind them as the crowning glory of their drum kit. How many songs can use a gong on before it starts getting a bit too much? (The answer is "probably no more than one"). Similarly with an envelope filter. 

 

The only exception to that I can think of would be Chris Squire using his Mutron to great effect on  a few tracks on Tormato. I'm sure there must be others, but I've no idea what they would be!

Edited September 1, 2021 by Misdee

[NJE]

I completely get what you are saying. I had an old DOD envelope filter because of Flea when I was younger. I had a lot of fun with it, but once you have played along (badly in my case) to chilli peppers songs, I couldn’t see a lot of use.

 

Recently I saw a video of Ian Allison and he was using down sweep with other pedals and for the first time I heard where it could be used to replicate synth parts. I am a sucker for old funk and pop and now I am hearing the down sweep filter more.

 

I must add that for now at least I am only playing at home, so I am hoping I can jam along to some tunes for the fun of it, I cannot think of any more than one song I would have played in previous bands where I could have got away with using a filter 😄

Edited September 1, 2021 by NJE

[Misdee]

49 minutes ago, NJE said:

I completely get what you are saying. I had an old DOD envelope filter because of Flea when I was younger. I had a lot of fun with it, but once you have played along (badly in my case) to chilli peppers songs, I couldn’t see a lot of use.

 

Recently I saw a video of Ian Allison and he was using down sweep with other pedals and for the first time I heard where it could be used to replicate synth parts. I am a sucker for old funk and pop and now I am hearing the down sweep filter more.

 

I must add that for now at least I am only playing at home, so I am hoping I can jam along to some tunes for the fun of it, I cannot think of any more than one song I would have played in previous bands where I could have got away with using a filter 😄

I only play at home nowadays too, but I like to think that I am completely ready and completly relevant if I get that call from a big-name band with a record deal.  Knowing how I would use my envelope filter is part of that. 😄

 

To be honest with you, I've been sat here ready for the last thirty years or so, so they better hurry up before the money they are going to offer me starts to interfere with my eligibility for Pension Credit.😟

Edited September 1, 2021 by Misdee