Singers... more me in the monitors!

[dave_bass5]

We’ve always used powered monitors for the vocals. In the old band the singer and drummer were using them. In our case it was just one mix, but each could turn their monitor up when needed without disturbing the FOH.

Once we got to the stage where the singer was tuning up so loud it would feed back we took it away from him and slaved a passive cab off the drummers monitor. I recall i first took the fuse out at sound check and he had to use it as a passive monitor. Then for some reason i couldn't get it to work at all when i took it home and inspected it lol. I said if he wanted a new one he would have to pay for it himself. 

 

Job done 😂

[Downunderwonder]

Did the guitarist fall in?

[moley6knipe]

Those Helicon monitors are mint. Proper Swiss Army knife- loads of options for connecting, xlr through (that actually passes signal through unlike some mons I’ve used in the past!), local control of your mic and overall mix etc. And they clip on stands or are small enough to stand on a shelf. Great solution. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by moley6knipe

[DaytonaRik]

14 hours ago, moley6knipe said:

Those Helicon monitors are mint. Proper Swiss Army knife- loads of options for connecting, xlr through (that actually passes signal through unlike some mons I’ve used in the past!), local control of your mic and overall mix etc. And they clip on stands or are small enough to stand on a shelf. Great solution. 

 

An even better solution is to get a desk with enough individual monitor sends for everyone!

[casapete]

25 minutes ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

An even better solution is to get a desk with enough individual monitor sends for everyone!

I’d agree, although the cost of getting one ( especially for a larger band) may prove to be cost prohibitive? Also would mean the lead singist being let loose on the controls...🤣

[Japhet]

On 27/08/2021 at 09:56, DiMarco said:

Turn down the amps on stage. That's the real problem.

 

 

Maybe, somewhere in a parallel universe, this is a viable option.

[EBS_freak]

28 minutes ago, Japhet said:

 

Maybe, somewhere in a parallel universe, this is a viable option.

Removing the amps completely is a preferable option.

[BCH]

16 minutes ago, Japhet said:

 

Maybe, somewhere in a parallel universe, this is a viable option.

Silent stage, once you have experienced it its difficult to argue with the benefits  ...individual mix control...clarity and separation..easier to singing in tune & balance BV's...hear the good, improving & mistakes...lower volume in ear therefore reduced damage...less tired after gig...and the audience will notice the tightness & ballance!

Yes it takes commitment and time to get used to the new sound....often band members hide in the stage noise, so feel insecure without the volume, so all have to support.

We did it in stages with a short term goal and review after each stage, it took 4 months 10 rehearsals 8 gigs 

[BCH]

Just now, EBS_freak said:

Removing the amps completely is a preferable option.

We had to remove the amps

[DaytonaRik]

55 minutes ago, casapete said:

I’d agree, although the cost of getting one ( especially for a larger band) may prove to be cost prohibitive? Also would mean the lead singist being let loose on the controls...🤣

 

Midas MR18 is £499, the slightly cheaper Behringer option (XR18) is £477 - there really is no reason why these small form factor digital desks are not the staple for most pub/small club gigging bands given that you not only get 6 aux outs for multiple dedicated monitor feeds but you also get 2  FX channels,  31 band graphic EQ on each output, 4 band parametric, dynamics, a noise gate and insert points on each input channel.  And I never let the lead singer loose with the iPad! 

 

28 minutes ago, Japhet said:

 

Maybe, somewhere in a parallel universe, this is a viable option.

 

Give them proper monitoring either though their own wedge or IEMs and it happens.  Believe me!  You can crank a wedge so loud they turn their backline down!!!!!

 

[DaytonaRik]

3 minutes ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by DaytonaRik

[Japhet]

3 hours ago, BCH said:

Silent stage, once you have experienced it its difficult to argue with the benefits  ...individual mix control...clarity and separation..easier to singing in tune & balance BV's...hear the good, improving & mistakes...lower volume in ear therefore reduced damage...less tired after gig...and the audience will notice the tightness & ballance!

Yes it takes commitment and time to get used to the new sound....often band members hide in the stage noise, so feel insecure without the volume, so all have to support.

We did it in stages with a short term goal and review after each stage, it took 4 months 10 rehearsals 8 gigs 

 

I'd be all for it but there are too many hurdles for me. First and foremost, I've financed all of our PA since all the others are classic impoverished musicians who spend the vast majority of their time drinking beer and moaning about how skint they are. I'm also skint, but not because I spend all of my time drinking beer. The chances of any of them stumping up a fiver towards any changes are less than nil. Secondly, the gig situation has gone downhill rapidly since Covid and I don't particularly fancy too much exposure in crowded spaces. Thirdly, I think my gigging days are probably numbered now through age, enthusiasm and all of the above.

[BCH]

5 minutes ago, Japhet said:

 

I'd be all for it but there are too many hurdles for me. First and foremost, I've financed all of our PA since all the others are classic impoverished musicians who spend the vast majority of their time drinking beer and moaning about how skint they are. I'm also skint, but not because I spend all of my time drinking beer. The chances of any of them stumping up a fiver towards any changes are less than nil. Secondly, the gig situation has gone downhill rapidly since Covid and I don't particularly fancy too much exposure in crowded spaces. Thirdly, I think my gigging days are probably numbered now through age, enthusiasm and all of the above.

Totally recognise the picture you describe, we have been motivated to find a way to continue as we are retired, in our 70's with back issues but are determined to make it to our 50 years, with the same band & members (remaining 3) which is 2022. The other band I play with are as you describe!!!!...ha

[DaytonaRik]

A couple of years ago I bit the bullet and funded the entire PA inc a van to carry it all.  I figured that a) it would save arguments b) I could get what I liked c) if they didn't like it they could lump it d) I could earn a few pennines wet hiring for small venues.  Luckily by making sure I bought a desk capable of handling as many channels as we could ever need (X32 Rack plus an SD8 and SD16 digital stage boxes) along with plenty of wedges everyone has a monitor mix they like.  One guitarist regularly asks me to turn his monitor down! 😉

Edited September 28, 2021 by DaytonaRik

[BCH]

4 minutes ago, DaytonaRik said:

A couple of years ago I bit the bullet and funded the entire PA inc a van to carry it all.  I figured that a) it would save arguments b) I could get what I liked c) if they didn't like it they could lump it d) I could earn a few pennines wet hiring for small venues.  Luckily by making sure I bought a desk capable of handling as many channels as we could ever need (X32 Rack plus an SD8 and SD16 digital stage boxes) along with plenty of wedges everyone has a monitor mix they like.  One guitarist regularly asks me to turn his monitor down! 😉

Good move...did the same but no van as we only need a PA for max 250...I really enjoyed researching/ experementing and trying all the PA & IEM components

[Cliff Edge]

On 26/08/2021 at 11:14, fretmeister said:

I sing with foam ear plugs in. That way I sound louder in my own head.

 

Not a lot needed in the monitors then.

That’s an interesting idea, better than sticking a finger in yer ear. How does the bass sound. I presume you are also the bass player?

[Cliff Edge]

On 26/08/2021 at 12:39, chris_b said:

Is the singer asking for more monitors because the guitarist is too loud? I know a guitarist actually turning down is the ninth wonder of the world, so maybe turn his amp away from the singer.

 

A long time ago in a pub band far away, I had a guitarist who kept turning up his amp. It was because other members of the band kept turning it down behind his back. 

[Dan Dare]

On 26/09/2021 at 13:25, casapete said:

These are great, along with others like the Mackie and Behringer models. However, please beware -  someone I worked with connected his ‘inline’ rather than using the auxiliary out from the mixer, which meant that when he turned the monitor output up it also affected the FOH level too. Took us ages to work out why his mic was significantly louder than at soundcheck, tw*t! 

 

The better ones allow you to connect them to the PA via a 'through' output, so the monitor level you set has no effect on the signal sent to the mixer. The TC, unlike the Mackie, can mount on a mic' stand, so it can be close to your face and easier to hear. It also has reverb/fx (which don't go to the PA), which makes your voice sound warmer/nicer and is confidence-inspiring. That's why I got mine.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Dan Dare

[casapete]

17 minutes ago, Cliff Edge said:

A long time ago in a pub band far away, I had a guitarist who kept turning up his amp. It was because other members of the band kept turning it down behind his back. 

I remember someone in a (loud) local band customising the guitarist's amplifier by repositioning the volume pot on the spline, so to make the maximum setting effectively '8' instead of '10'. Think it worked for a few gigs before he twigged. 😆

[geoham]

21 hours ago, DaytonaRik said:

 

Midas MR18 is £499, the slightly cheaper Behringer option (XR18) is £477 - there really is no reason why these small form factor digital desks are not the staple for most pub/small club gigging bands given that you not only get 6 aux outs for multiple dedicated monitor feeds but you also get 2  FX channels,  31 band graphic EQ on each output, 4 band parametric, dynamics, a noise gate and insert points on each input channel.  And I never let the lead singer loose with the iPad! 

 

 

Give them proper monitoring either though their own wedge or IEMs and it happens.  Believe me!  You can crank a wedge so loud they turn their backline down!!!!!

 

We bought the XR18. £425 from Amazon, and the ability to split the bill in to 5 payments with no interest

 

It’s a great device and just works.

I’ve dedicated an old laptop to controlling it. I was a bit concerned about how using a computer as a remote control would hold up live, compared to just being able to quickly grab a fader - but it’s great.

 

I’ve set keyboard player and I up with IEM and the rest with their own wedge.

 

A huge difference - the vocalist has mostly himself and a tiny bit of band in his monitor and no longer constantly asking to be turned up. He did miss a cue once because he had the keyboards down a bit too low… so still a little work to do.

 

We’re still running without amps, which is great - especially in space restricted venues. The guitarist still makes the occasional comment that he thinks we’d sound better with cabs on stage, but he’s otherwise behaving!

[BCH]

1 hour ago, geoham said:

We bought the XR18. £425 from Amazon, and the ability to split the bill in to 5 payments with no interest

 

It’s a great device and just works.

I’ve dedicated an old laptop to controlling it. I was a bit concerned about how using a computer as a remote control would hold up live, compared to just being able to quickly grab a fader - but it’s great.

 

I’ve set keyboard player and I up with IEM and the rest with their own wedge.

 

A huge difference - the vocalist has mostly himself and a tiny bit of band in his monitor and no longer constantly asking to be turned up. He did miss a cue once because he had the keyboards down a bit too low… so still a little work to do.

 

We’re still running without amps, which is great - especially in space restricted venues. The guitarist still makes the occasional comment that he thinks we’d sound better with cabs on stage, but he’s otherwise behaving!

Great progress dont give in