Drop C#

[Cosmo Valdemar]

  On 03/09/2021 at 17:46, Wotcher said:

My take is c# a d g

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That's going to be fun for the guitar players!

[bagsieblue]

  On 03/09/2021 at 17:43, Cosmo Valdemar said:

Drop C# is Drop D but down a semitone, so C# G# C# F#

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Yep - this is what it is.

[bagsieblue]

  On 03/09/2021 at 17:48, Cosmo Valdemar said:

That's going to be fun for the guitar players!

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Correct again my friend - as a (six string) guitar tuning its to drop the low string often to allow the 2 lower notes below E and the one finger barre power chords.

 

In Rock - tuning down a semi tone is very common, as is Drop D tuning - Drop C# does both...

Edited September 3, 2021 by bagsieblue

[Lfalex v1.1]

  On 03/09/2021 at 17:41, Cosmo Valdemar said:

That's going to give you C# standard, not drop C#. And it would look daft.

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Daft or not, that's how I'm going to get E standard from D standard on my SB-2. Capo on the second. 

It's that or adopt the Zon Michael Manring Hyperbass approach; a de-tuner on all 4 strings! 🤣

[Wotcher]

  On 03/09/2021 at 17:48, Cosmo Valdemar said:

That's going to be fun for the guitar players!

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Hah yes I was thinking about guitars in standard tune and just the bass in drop c# for a wee bit lower end

[BigRedX]

The other thing to consider is what the rest of the band are expecting in terms of bass parts. 

 

If there's lots of octave/unison riffing using open strings then you are going to need to match the tuning of the guitars. However having a standard tuned bass with the down-tuned guitars may allow you to come up with some more interesting/less conventional ideas if you don't have to slavishly follow the guitar riffs.

 

On the few occasions I've played with down/drop tuned bands I've stuck in standard tuning on my 5-string with out any problems.

Edited September 4, 2021 by BigRedX

[Lfalex v1.1]

  On 04/09/2021 at 08:46, BigRedX said:

The other thing to consider is what the rest of the band are expecting in terms of bass parts. 

 

If there's lots of octave/unison riffing using open strings then you are going to need to match the tuning of the guitars. However having a standard tuned bass with the down-tuned guitars may allow you to come up with some more interesting/less conventional ideas if you don't have to slavishly follow the guitar riffs.

 

On the few occasions I've played with down/drop tuned bands I've stuck in standard tuning on my 5-string with out any problems.

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Good points.  The only reason I've adopted D standard on one bass is for playing along to other bands that are already so tuned.

I'd not even consider it in the context of an originals band. I'd use a fiver as well, and likely opt for harmony or counter-melody rather than following the roots notes, certainly for verses  (if the structure exists)

[sykilz]

I think this is the tuning that Alice in Chains have used for a lot of their darker work, Them Bones and most of Dirt album, etc, and I've only ever seen (Mike Starr initially) Mike Inez use four string Warwick / Spector type basses tuned down, assumedly with chunky strings. And they've always sounded great 🤘🤘🤘

[SteveXFR]

I play quite a lot in drop C#. It's a really common tuning in metal. I use a set of 45-110 strings and they seem fine to me.all the way down to C standard.

[uk_lefty]

So the guitarist got back to me. The answer is..... 

 

E = C#

A = Ab

D = Db

G = Gb

 

And luckily my Ray with a drop D tuner is already set up like that. 

[NancyJohnson]

  On 05/09/2021 at 18:57, uk_lefty said:

So the guitarist got back to me. The answer is..... 

 

E = C#

A = Ab

D = Db

G = Gb

 

And luckily my Ray with a drop D tuner is already set up like that. 

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So C#/G#/C#/F#, then.

 

I'd try a set of 50-110.  A half step down against the A/D/G strings should be fine, the E string might be a bit flappy.

 

 

[uk_lefty]

  On 06/09/2021 at 07:14, NancyJohnson said:

So C#/G#/C#/F#, then.

 

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Does describing the same note as either sharp or flat make one of us an optimist and the other a pessimist...? 😉

 

Thanks for the advice on the string guages, much appreciated! 

[NancyJohnson]

  On 06/09/2021 at 07:31, uk_lefty said:

Does describing the same note as either sharp or flat make one of us an optimist and the other a pessimist...? 😉

 

Thanks for the advice on the string guages, much appreciated! 

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Someone will be along shortly shouting pedantry or something, but I learnt from the outset that the root notes were E F F# G G# A Bb B C C# D Eb and this is what they always used to be called, but I guess renaming these may make certain musicians feel they have an air of superiority by referring to an F# as a Gb.

 

If note-naming us so fluid, feasibly you could easily dispense with F & B; why not simply go E E# Gb G G# A A# Cb C C# D Eb.

[uk_lefty]

  On 06/09/2021 at 07:50, NancyJohnson said:

 

Someone will be along shortly shouting pedantry or something, but I learnt from the outset that the root notes were E F F# G G# A Bb B C C# D Eb and this is what they always used to be called, but I guess renaming these may make certain musicians feel they have an air of superiority by referring to an F# as a Gb.

 

If note-naming us so fluid, feasibly you could easily dispense with F & B; why not simply go E E# Gb G G# A A# Cb C C# D Eb.

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And I've just realised my mistake...! 😁 Gb indeed!!! I'll get my coat. 

[Guest]

If you've separate voices moving in different directions, choosing sharps or flats can make their individual lines easier to understand from each pov. So you might end up with C# and Db being written simultaneously....

 

 

If we then return the Gb and Ab to that first chord and see where they might want to go....

 

 

I've no idea what that's like as music, but your pedant will have no cause for complaint 

[DiMarco]

  On 06/09/2021 at 07:14, NancyJohnson said:

 

So C#/G#/C#/F#, then.

 

I'd try a set of 50-110.  A half step down against the A/D/G strings should be fine, the E string might be a bit flappy.

 

 

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^^ This. Also keep in mind strings with a hex core are less prone to feel flappy than ones with round cores.

 

 

[NancyJohnson]

  On 06/09/2021 at 09:04, DiMarco said:

 

^^ This. Also keep in mind strings with a hex core are less prone to feel flappy than ones with round cores.

 

 

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You're falling into the realms of the surface tension of the cores here and the effect on movement.  There's probably an equation to support an argument about hex-core Vs round-core, but given that we're talking infinitesimally small amounts of flappyness.  Bear in mind that the string winding will also be contributory as well (remember those DR Helbourg strings, that all had single wraps?).

[Woodinblack]

  On 06/09/2021 at 07:50, NancyJohnson said:

 

Someone will be along shortly shouting pedantry or something, but I learnt from the outset that the root notes were E F F# G G# A Bb B C C# D Eb and this is what they always used to be called

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Thats something I never heard before.

The root notes are called whatever the keys are, it would be unusual to mix sharps and flats in one scale, so I would agree with you, I couldn't bring myself to say C# Ab Db Gb as it looks ugly, and how can you have a scale with C# and Db in it? So yeh, if you are going to call it drop C# the other strings would be G# C# and F#. otherwise I would call it drop D flat!

 

These aren't 'rules', but are common. The real rule on what you call something is that if you do a major scale, you wouldn't have two of the same notes in it, so for instance in the key of F you have a Bb, because if you had an A# you would have a scale with two As, only separated by a drawn sharp every time you wrote it!

 

I would say on the strings, doesn't have to be that heavy strings if you play lightly anyway

Edited September 6, 2021 by Woodinblack

[DiMarco]

Stop it! 😁 Before you know it we will have hijacked the thread and talking double flats.

That's not what OP is looking for is it?

 

[ezbass]

  On 06/09/2021 at 07:50, NancyJohnson said:

 

Someone will be along shortly shouting pedantry or something, but I learnt from the outset that the root notes were E F F# G G# A Bb B C C# D Eb and this is what they always used to be called, but I guess renaming these may make certain musicians feel they have an air of superiority by referring to an F# as a Gb.

 

If note-naming us so fluid, feasibly you could easily dispense with F & B; why not simply go E E# Gb G G# A A# Cb C C# D Eb.

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And that’s before you get into the region of double sharps/flats, which I don’t understand at all, other than it’s modal.

[Woodinblack]

  On 06/09/2021 at 09:28, DiMarco said:

Stop it! 😁 Before you know it we will have hijacked the thread and talking double flats.

That's not what OP is looking for is it?

 

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Yeh, he is playing in Ebbb!

[uk_lefty]

  On 06/09/2021 at 09:26, Woodinblack said:

I couldn't bring myself to say C# Ab Db Gb as it looks ugly, and how can you have a scale with C# and Db in it?

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It's my error and over simplification on translating from "standard" tuning to this. Pedants may stand down as it is an error, not me stating a fact..  My thought process was "take D down half a step = Db" which after a night's sleep and a prod from Nancy Johnson reminds me, that's the note formerly and formally known as C#

[NancyJohnson]

  On 06/09/2021 at 09:29, ezbass said:

And that’s before you get into the region of double sharps/flats, which I don’t understand at all, other than it’s modal.

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While we never took it that far, the guitarist in a project I doing last year suggested we 'do something microtonally, with a middle Eastern feel.'

 

Thankfully (and largely down to the fact that he was struggling to find a left-handed instrument), we didn't explore it further, but that would have resulted in the double flat/sharp thing.

[Woodinblack]

  On 06/09/2021 at 09:48, NancyJohnson said:

Thankfully (and largely down to the fact that he was struggling to find a left-handed instrument), we didn't explore it further, but that would have resulted in the double flat/sharp thing.

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No, microtonal doesn't go close to that. A double flat is just a music theory device to get all the lines to line up. For instance a Bbb is just an A, but if you have a chord which has to flatten a note, and that note is already a flat due to the scale, it ends up as a double flat. Microtonal would be somewhere between Bb and Bbb - somewhere outside of the western scale.

[bloke_zero]

  On 06/09/2021 at 09:58, Woodinblack said:

 

No, microtonal doesn't go close to that. A double flat is just a music theory device to get all the lines to line up. For instance a Bbb is just an A, but if you have a chord which has to flatten a note, and that note is already a flat due to the scale, it ends up as a double flat. Microtonal would be somewhere between Bb and Bbb - somewhere outside of the western scale.

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