Warwick Woes

[Lfalex v1.1]

Argh! Just got my 2002 Infinty SN4 out of its case for a quick blast. Then I took the strings off to clean the fretboard.

The pesky Just-a-nut 2 disintegrated as soon as I touched it 😡

 

Worse still, the tuners are in various stages of destroying themselves. I've already had to replace the E when it sheared the tuning post clean off and shot it across the room.

 

Seems like everything north of the first fret is a catastrophe! I've basses that are much older and have seen heavier use, yet this one seems hell-bent on self destruction. 

 

Does anyone have any idea why? 

 

Regarding repairs and replacements, which is better ?

 

JAN I

JAN III

Plain brass or Tusq nut

 

As for tuners, what are the specs I need to determine if other manufacturers' tuners will fit?

I'd prefer a direct replacement, and ideally a design without those collapsing nylon washers between the key and shaft. Do Schaller do something appropriate? The ones on my EUB are superb.

 

Thanks in advance

(an irascible) Alex.

 

[Lfalex v1.1]

These are E and A, showing the split/collapsed washers. The E is only 5 years old.

The G feels like it's going to shear its post like the original E did. It's definitely stripping inside when turned under load.

[Lfalex v1.1]

And these are the Schaller items from the EUB. These won't fit (too long, tuning post is too small diameter, and the head isn't drilled/slotted) Do they do this design to fit the Warwick?

[Guest]

Personally I would get the JANIII in brass as on the Warwick I had it added and extra something to the tone.

Odd that the tuners should try to self-destruct. I had probably over 30 Warwicks in my time and have never had an issue with hardware - other than the JANII. Are Hipshot Ultralites a possible replacement? I have them on both of my MM basses and they're rock-solid.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Thanks for the reply .

I've had 2 other Warwicks, both from 1997.

Neither suffered any tuner issues. I still own the Fortress V, and it's fine. Both of the others had JAN 1s, and no issues there. 

 

Might go for the JAN 3 in brass.

The YouTube video made it look like an easy job to swap nuts. I fully expect the job to end my playing career when I cut off at least half my fingers tinkering with super-sharp blades...

[lemmywinks]

Just-a-nut in brass and Hipshot Ultralites (Licensed are great and pretty cheap) are the way I would go.

[Trueno]

If I still had my Warwicks the JAN III would have gone on long ago.

[Lfalex v1.1]

19 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

Just-a-nut in brass and Hipshot Ultralites (Licensed are great and pretty cheap) are the way I would go.

Will I have to re-drill the headstock for the screws?

 

If so, expect a headstock like Emmental and even fewer fingers...

 

Maybe I should engage the services of a luthier.  Its a nice instrument and I don't want to turn it into firewood. 

[Lfalex v1.1]

Just looked at the prices;

 

Warwick replacements- £8.64 each.

Hipshot Licensed-  about £16 each.

US Hipshot- about £35 each.

 

I wonder why Black Warwick tuners are dying on me? Has the hardware quality taken a downturn since the late 90s?

I'm not exactly using heavy strings (45-100)

[lemmywinks]

Not sure RE screws, never used them on a Warwick but the Lic Ultralites are excellent.

 

The Warwick tuners are licensed Gotohs made in house aren't they? Maybe quality has slipped, the plastic washers splitting is something you see on cheap tuners.

[Lfalex v1.1]

I think you're right about then being licensed Gotoh units. They're certainly of very poor quality. Finish is okay, but they're too soft internally.

I think the Real McCoy Gotohs are about £80 for a 2L/2R set.

[Guest]

I could be wrong but I think Ultralites should be a drop-in replacement. I did have a look at the licensed tuners and couldn’t really see much of a difference. The US ones are supposed to be lighter but when I weighed mine (don’t ask, I was bored) they were quite a bit heavier than the spec sheet. But they feel as if they’ll last forever.

 

Gotoh GB350 Res-O-Lite is another option but quite hard to get hold of (and expensive) but AFAIK the lightest tuners available at 40g each.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Weight isn't much of an issue. It's already very body-heavy, so the odd gram or two won't make much odds!

Edited September 5, 2021 by Lfalex v1.1

[NancyJohnson]

7 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

These are E and A, showing the split/collapsed washers. The E is only 5 years old.

The G feels like it's going to shear its post like the original E did. It's definitely stripping inside when turned under load.

 

Those washers are a major b*llache.  I had similar failures on my old Waterstone TP12 and gave up trying to find replacements...it just wasn't worth the bother. 

 

Eventually I just found some similar nylon material - bread bag twisty things - and just made some myself.

[Lfalex v1.1]

The washers aren't even the main issue, it's just another issue from a poorly-made version of a perfectly adequate design. 

 

The internals are far worse. The original E tuner that failed had its pinion at the base of the tuning post completely stripped by the worm gear on the shaft. There was a load of swarf left in the case. I can feel the G tuner going- the post is already loose when not under string tension.

 

I suppose that contacting Warwick would be an utter waste of time; they're unlikely to do anything about a 19 year old bass, and if they do, I expect another batch of crappy tuners that'll be ruined in 5 years. 

 

Edit- This whole caper is souring both the ownership experience for this bass and my opinion of Warwick "quality". I doubt I could bring myself to recommend them to anyone else, much less buy a new one myself based on 4 original tuners and one original one failing/ requiring replacement.

I've only had one bass worse that this; the Amazing self-destructing Status Streamline. That (rightly) went.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Lfalex v1.1
Extra thoughts

[LeftyJ]

The quality of the current Warwick tuners is a wellknown problem and gets discussed on the Warwick owners Facebook group regularly. If I'm not mistaken, @FDC484950is right about the Hipshots being drop-in replacements. I've seen several people on Facebook succesfully replace their broken tuners with them without issues or modifications. 

 

My 2001 Streamer LX still has its stock tuners, and my 2003 Streamer LX5 had its worn gold hardware replaced with original black Warwick hardware in 2013(ish) and they're still going strong, but the tuners don't feel very solid. The 2003 also had a JAN II like your Infinity, but both the guide tabs on the outer edges had broken off or disintegrated so I replaced it with a Tedur JAN III. The 2001 has a brass JAN I. Both are great, but the JAN III is far easier to adjust and has the strings laying slightly closer to the edge of the fretboard, which I like. 

[lemmywinks]

Last time I had the JAN II one of the tabs broke off the first time I restrung the bass, the second one broke the next time!

[Lfalex v1.1]

 

Finally got around to doing it.

2L, 2R Licensed Hipshots and a brass Jan III.

Seems Warwick were rather zealous with the adhesive on the original nut. Had to work it off with a screwdriver,  and removing the residue took ages. 

 

The tuners were straightforward enough. A drop-in replacement. A deepish 15mm socket is ideal to remove / refit the bushes. No ratchet necessary, hand-tight is enough.

 

Barrel jack needed tightening (again)

 

Volume pot is a little bit stiff. Needs some contact cleaner w/lube to sort that out. 

 

Adjusted the new nut and left it as low as I could without it buzzing at the first fret when playing hard.

 

Re-did the intonation wearing the bass.

I'm finding that doing it on my lap or on a bench puts sufficient pressure on the neck as to render some adjustments inaccurate. I guess it's like loosening the truss rod a bit then retightening it again after the intonation is done. 

Seems to work.  It's in tune right up to the 24th fret on all the strings. Chords ring rather well now, so something must be right!

 

Used some of the Ken Smith Classic wax polish on the body and neck,  which came out nicely. 

 

Sounds great now, but what a ball-ache!

[LeftyJ]

On 04/05/2023 at 09:33, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Re-did the intonation wearing the bass.

I'm finding that doing it on my lap or on a bench puts sufficient pressure on the neck as to render some adjustments inaccurate. I guess it's like loosening the truss rod a bit then retightening it again after the intonation is done. 

Seems to work.  It's in tune right up to the 24th fret on all the strings. Chords ring rather well now, so something must be right!

 

This sounds familiar. Both my Warwicks (2002 Streamer LX and 2003 Streamer LX5) have ovangkol necks, and they're without a doubt the most unstable necks in my collection. Especially the 5 moves a lot with a change of seasons, and when detuning (my doom metal band plays in A tuning, and I didn't want to sacrifice a 5-string to keep in A permanently. The Warwick is completely unfit to tune down a full step and back up again, as the perfect setup will always be a compromise between the two - and at least in one of the two tunings it will barely be playable. It's just that bendy.

[Lfalex v1.1]

I've found the intonation to be more accurate done that way on most of the basses I've worked on  (notable exceptions being a Vigier and a MM Bongo)

 

I totally agree about Ovangkol though. 

My Wenge-necked Fortress is a model citizen by comparison. 

Shame,  because the Infinty has a really nice tone. And it's quite pretty. 

 

 

see