In between notes

[Nail Soup]

Does anyone know of an example on YT or whatever of the same group of musicians perform the same piece twice.... once in ET and once in Just intonation?

[bassace]

  On 05/09/2021 at 16:49, Lfalex v1.1 said:

I made a music teacher cry once when I described one as a "Fretless Trumpet" 

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There is such a thing as a slide trumpet tho’.

[wateroftyne]

  On 06/09/2021 at 14:26, bassace said:

There is such a thing as a slide trumpet tho’.

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Derail mode ON

 

A few years ago, my Dad, who knows nowt about trumpets, opened a case at a car boot sale. It contained an odd-looking trumpet.

 

He thought it might be interesting, so paid the £15 asking price, took it home, made a few HONK noises with it, put it in the corner, and forgot about it.

 

I spotted it one day, and decided to find out a bit about it. Eventually contacted a museum in London who confirmed it was a very rare Pace slide trumpet, and directed me to an expert - in fact, the chap who played the trumpet theme on Antiques Roadshow.

 

He was performing in Newcastle a few months later, so we arranged to meet him. He took it out of the case, put it together and played something beautiful.

 

He bought it on the spot.

 

Derail mode OFF

[Woodinblack]

  On 06/09/2021 at 14:43, wateroftyne said:

He bought it on the spot.

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So you got your £15 back?

 

[EssentialTension]

  On 05/09/2021 at 18:12, ubit said:

... Les Dawson on acid.

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Do you have a link?

[nekomatic]

  On 06/09/2021 at 10:32, jrixn1 said:

Here's an example of microtonality in a piece with otherwise conventional harmony.  The phrase starts at 1:31 and he slips in a cheeky quarter tone at 1:34. https://youtu.be/K28H04Y2IdE?t=91

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I bet I know who that is…

(follows link) yep!

[Owen]

In keyboard world and guitar world, equal temprement does it's thing and it is fine.

 

In my experinece, playing a fretted bass with an orchestra, very few of whom are tied to equal temprament, means quite a lot of bending notes to fit in where they "should" be.

[Downunderwonder]

  On 06/09/2021 at 21:22, owen said:

In keyboard world and guitar world, equal temprement does it's thing and it is fine.

 

In my experinece, playing a fretted bass with an orchestra, very few of whom are tied to equal temprament, means quite a lot of bending notes to fit in where they "should" be.

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Do you ''tune'' it a bit flat and bend like mad or put up with ET when it's a bit sharp?

[nekomatic]

  On 06/09/2021 at 08:41, zbd1960 said:

A relatively common example of just intonation still in sue is barbershop quartet singing - that's why the chords really 'ping' since for example the fifths are a 3:2 ratio.

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I never knew this, and went off in search of more information. It turns out to be even more complicated than that!

[nekomatic]

  On 06/09/2021 at 13:52, Nail Soup said:

Does anyone know of an example on YT or whatever of the same group of musicians perform the same piece twice.... once in ET and once in Just intonation?

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Not off the top of my head, but have a look for Christopher Stembridge (and maybe others) playing the chromatic harpsichord, on which some of the keys are split in half and one side plays a note tuned according to one keynote while the other side plays the ‘same’ note but in a different key. It sounds proper weird. 

[wateroftyne]

  On 06/09/2021 at 15:18, Woodinblack said:

 

So you got your £15 back?

 

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With a bit of interest 🙂

[Owen]

  On 06/09/2021 at 22:06, Downunderwonder said:

Do you ''tune'' it a bit flat and bend like mad or put up with ET when it's a bit sharp?

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Honestly, it is a long time since I did it, but I was bending notes up "almost" a semitone or sharpening slightly to make it happen. Sometimes pressing the string really hard into the fret was enough to make the difference. But it was definitely a thing.

[Woodwind]

  On 07/09/2021 at 07:41, nekomatic said:

Not off the top of my head, but have a look for Christopher Stembridge (and maybe others) playing the chromatic harpsichord, on which some of the keys are split in half and one side plays a note tuned according to one keynote while the other side plays the ‘same’ note but in a different key. It sounds proper weird. 

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Wow sounds amazing!

Thanks for the heads up, will investigate now

[Bunion]

I play mainly fretted but am pushing forward on fretless too. 
I’m the words of Tony Franklin on fretless sometimes you’ll play it wrong but if you play it with conviction it will be ok so I now play off notes on both bass’ and blame everyone else. 

[Downunderwonder]

  On 07/09/2021 at 09:58, Bunion said:

play it with conviction

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The MD actually encouraged me to let rip and right note be damned when I joined the band.

[Bunion]

 

[Leonard Smalls]

Here's the master of micro-tonal... His band Screaming Headless Torsos groove like muthas!

 

 

[Hellzero]

Here's the most interesting video concerning the difference between 4 ways to tune a guitar (and also microtonal guitar) including the Equal Temperament and the Just Intonation.

 

If you don't want to hear without knowing what is what, go straight to 3:32 and you'll get all the explanations needed.

 

It's a part of a Bach piece, by the way.

 

Check this YouTube channel for microtonal guitar, it's a gold mine...

 

 

Maybe time to listen to music differently... 😉

[Hellzero]

  On 06/09/2021 at 13:52, Nail Soup said:

Does anyone know of an example on YT or whatever of the same group of musicians perform the same piece twice.... once in ET and once in Just intonation?

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Check just before, here is what you asked for @Nail Soup !

[Woodinblack]

  On 07/09/2021 at 19:58, Hellzero said:

Here's the most interesting video concerning the difference between 4 ways to tune a guitar (and also microtonal guitar) including the Equal Temperament and the Just Intonation.

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I was quite surprised that Equal temperament sounded the best to me (just edging the 4th) and Just temperament sounded awful, I wouldn't have expected that at all. Maybe its just what I am used to. The last one was also almost as good - good old Werkmeister IIIrd!

[adamg67]

I know there are loads of examples of this, but I came across this one not long ago

 

 

[Hellzero]

  On 07/09/2021 at 20:56, Woodinblack said:

 

I was quite surprised that Equal temperament sounded the best to me (just edging the 4th) and Just temperament sounded awful, I wouldn't have expected that at all. Maybe its just what I am used to. The last one was also almost as good - good old Werkmeister IIIrd!

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Funny, because the Just Intonation tuning sounds perfect to my ears as there are no more notes wobbling. To my ears it's a delight, but it's something I know for as long as I can remember. Next Thursday I'm starting to learn the piano (which is the epitome of Equal Temperament tuning) : wish me luck as I think the intervals will hurt my ears. My teacher has perfect pitch, so it will be great fun. That said I know a piano tuner who tunes the pianos his way (he's a master conservatory singer) and it's closer to the Just Intonation than the Equal Temperament.

[Woodinblack]

  On 08/09/2021 at 20:39, Hellzero said:

Funny, because the Just Intonation tuning sounds perfect to my ears as there are no more notes wobbling. To my ears it's a delight, but it's something I know for as long as I can remember. Next Thursday I'm starting to learn the piano (which is the epitome of Equal Temperament tuning) : wish me luck as I think the intervals will hurt my ears. 

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Maybe that is why - I learned with the piano, so maybe that is why the just sounds so bad to me.

[adamg67]

  On 08/09/2021 at 20:39, Hellzero said:

…That said I know a piano tuner who tunes the pianos his way (he's a master conservatory singer) and it's closer to the Just Intonation than the Equal Temperament.

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Isn’t that only possible for some keys? I mean key signatures, not physical keys. If you get closer to just in one key, you’re getting further away in another?

[Hellzero]

  On 08/09/2021 at 20:50, adamg67 said:

 

Isn’t that only possible for some keys? I mean key signatures, not physical keys. If you get closer to just in one key, you’re getting further away in another?

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Theoretically yes, but when I hear someone playing a piano he has tuned, I feel good, whatever the key signature is. He has been tuning pianos for schools, privates, festivals, classical musicians, jazz musicians, ... and each time a piano he has tuned is played, you can see a smile on the player face on the first notes.

 

I have no other explanations, but I'll start learning the usual way, for sure.