Darkglass, yes but which serving?

[Gothic]

So, quick recap: looking for something to serve me both live as well as recording. Had a Behringer bass v-amp pro but that suddenly bit the dust and I'm looking for something better. I do not need any effects, just preamp and light grit. No distortion.

 

Portability and weight are big factors. Live use pertains to venues that all provide their own backline and always with PA support although some flat out refuse to get the DI out of your pedal and opt for the DI out of their (usually crappy) amps instead.

Now, after countless hours of searching for a clean preamp, I ironically found myself falling in love with the Darkglass vintage mid heavy grit (just grit, not full on distortion, mind you) and its clean tone doesn't sound half bad either. So that's where I'm going.

Problem is, I can't decide what would suit my situation better.

Note that I won't be buying my own cab at least in the foreseeable future and I'll be using whatever's provided. Don't want to spend anything on a cab for very, VERY low paying gigs and due to spinal issues I wouldn't be able to lug it around anyway.

So I'll break down my thought process.

Amp (DG MT500 head, can't afford or probably need the 900 version): that would really stretch my budget but it's got pretty much everything I need. A nice enough EQ, a serviceable compressor, DI out, the grit I like and enough power to gig (I think). Cab sims included as well. It's also light and small enough to probably fit even in a gigbag. I can carry it around, plop it on to any provided cab or straight to the FOH and have my sound anywhere.

Don't see any cons apart from the high price although I would be a little worried about its reliability, having read a few threads with people who had issues with those heads.

Preamp/DI pedal
Again, Darkglass vintage ultra. Why the ultra instead of the v3? Mostly because the ultra has the cab sim, which I find very useful, especially when using some grit.

Again, even lighter than the amp but lacking a compressor. Which means I'll have to pay more for another pedal and by this point, I don't think I'd really be saving much money going that route, which would be the only reason to opt for it. Also, not sure whether sound people here will accept to take the pedal's DI out instead of the amp's.

Pedals: since backline's always provided, I can just get a few pedals. But since I want to avoid using the amp for anything more than its power section pretty much, I'd need to do all the time sculpting before that. So ok, I can get the DG vintage dirt pedal but then I'll an EQ, a compressor and I'll most likely get some kind of DI too, just "to be safe".
Which means I'll probably end up with a pedalboard that would take up more space, be heavier and have more possible points of failure.
Needless to say, I'm not too fond of that route.

So, what I'm basically asking is, is there any reason to not get the amp head and opt for something else instead?

Many thanks

[fretmeister]

If you go used you could find a 900 head. They do seem to have less reliability issues than the smaller ones.

 

Or you could go a different way completely and get a Line 6 HX Stomp. Loads of bass amps and drives, IR / Cab sims and some useful FX like EQ and compressors even if you don't use any of the other FX. Dead easy to use.

[Lozz196]

I’d go for the preamp pedal, mainly because I gigged extensively in similar circumstances, both in UK and Europe. I only encountered a couple of soundmen that wouldn’t go from the pedal, everywhere else they were more than happy to do so. A small pedalboard with tuner, compressor & preamp/DI is easily managed, fits nicely in a rucksack and then no matter what set up is on stage the audience get the sound you intend them to get.

[Kev]

Would love that argument with a soundguy! My word, I'd go full diva.

 

If all venues are likely to have PA support and you use IEMs (or are happy to rely on stage monitors; again depends on the venues!) then the Vintage Ultra would suit you just fine.  Sure it doesn't have compression, but dirt adds enough compression on its own, and if you find the clean lacking you can always grab a comp too?  Still not a pedalboard.

 

If you don't use IEMs and/or there is a good chance a venue won't have PA support, if you can afford it go for the amp.  Don't worry about reliability too much, sure its a vocal minority and darkglass customer services is honestly second to none, they usually ship out a replacement before they even receive the faulty one back, next day UPS.

[Gothic]

First off, many thanks for chiming in!

 

To be honest, I'm moving away from the amp idea. It's quite a bit more expensive and perhaps the pedals will suit me better.

 

Now the Vintage idea stays. I fell in love with its tone. What I'm thinking is to pair its deluxe v3 incarnation with something like the bass simplifier, which has a ton of tone shaping options and cab sims. It does seem a bit redundant, however... It would seem like a better idea to use the simplifier and just add the vintage just OD pedal for dirt but I do like the added options of the deluxe and ultra.

 

Another alternative would be to pair the deluxe v3 with a cab sim pedal, some kind of IR loader...

 

As for the HX idea, I considered it and while it may be pretty much everything in a box, I'd like a more straight forward analog solution.

 

I was initially impressed and considering the Le Bass but its overdriven tones did not impress me at all. Quite beautifully warm sounding, otherwise.

 

[Kev]

Wouldn't the Ultra just give you everything, rather than needing a separate IR loader pedal and tone shaper?

[Gothic]

4 hours ago, Kev said:

Wouldn't the Ultra just give you everything, rather than needing a separate IR loader pedal and tone shaper?

 

It would indeed but in the case of a separate cab sim, I can place a more elaborate, dedicated compressor pedal after the DG to sort of "iron things out" and then go to a (again more elaborate) cab sim/global EQ (with a DI out). I'm "over engineering" this, aren't I?

[dannybuoy]

Maybe, but nothing wrong with that! I’d just bang a Spectracomp in front of the Ultra and call it a day!

[Kev]

9 hours ago, Gothic said:

 

It would indeed but in the case of a separate cab sim, I can place a more elaborate, dedicated compressor pedal after the DG to sort of "iron things out" and then go to a (again more elaborate) cab sim/global EQ (with a DI out). I'm "over engineering" this, aren't I?

How about I cause some more confusion for you…consider the Darkglass ADAM 😉

[Gothic]

11 minutes ago, Kev said:

How about I cause some more confusion for you…consider the Darkglass ADAM 😉

 

I actually did but couldn't really like anything on it. Way too digital and... "grindy" for my tastes. Grating, really. I loved the vintage tones because they're not overly fizzy or Uber distorted like most of their offerings.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Gothic

[Kev]

11 minutes ago, Gothic said:

 

I actually did but couldn't really like anything on it. Way too digital and... "grindy" for my tastes. Grating, really. I loved the vintage tones because they're not overly fizzy or Uber distorted like most of their offerings.

It’s interesting how many struggle with the ADAM.  It take a long time to figure out how to get the most from it, hated the distortions at first.  But now I have it’s the most important pedal on my board.  Do wonder how much being told it’s digital influences subconscious opinion on it, I can’t hear it sounds digital at all, but it’s too high gain as standard even with the update.  But I agree, the vintage is definitely on its own in the Darkglass range for those warm tones.

[krispn]

Watch the Amos Heller ADAM demo. Very well explained and the best tones I’ve heard from it but most of Amos’ DG demo’s show them in a very positive and versatile light. 

[Gothic]

27 minutes ago, krispn said:

Watch the Amos Heller ADAM demo. Very well explained and the best tones I’ve heard from it but most of Amos’ DG demo’s show them in a very positive and versatile light. 

 

I'm currently in love with both the B7k and the Vintage (ultra versions). The ADAM I just couldn't gel with but admittedly, I haven't tried that in person. However, considering my burning indecision and my current lack of money, I'm probably going to get the head after all. It just seems logical (in my head). I get both the B3k and the Vintage, plus a compressor in one neat, pretty little box with blue lights! Plan B is one of the two preamp pedals plus the other one in bare bones format but that leaves me without their individual voicings. 

 

Don't know. I just. Don't. Know.

[Gothic]

Hello again everyone!

 

Still (chronically) undecided, I've been playing (and much enjoying) the DG ultra plugin until the free trial ends. Honestly, I'm ultimately considering just getting both of them. The ADAM I just can't connect with, the amp is either one or the other at any given time and well... yeah... I can probably get away with getting the Ultra version of one and the Deluxe of the other but I still can't decide which for which (if that made any sense!).

 

In any case, I recorded the song Duality by Slipknot using both the B7k Ultra and the Vintage Ultra. Two takes, one with fingers and one with a pick. I've adjusted the (virtual) pedals accordingly for each take, they're not at the same settings.

It's recorded with a five string PJ straight into my interface, only going through the aforementioned plugin only. The original track playing behind I just tweaked a little to remove some bass frequencies. Bass is obviously mixed a little higher (or just right...) to be more discernible. Excuse the sloppy playing, I've only looked at the song for like ten minutes! Honestly I didn't even if the bass was still in tune! 😁

 

So which sounds better to you?

Duality B7k pick.mp3 Duality B7k.mp3 Duality VU pick.mp3 Duality VU.mp3

[Lozz196]

I think I prefer the B7k, the VU seems to sit in with the guitars better making one big sound but the B7k seems to sit slightly underneath allowing the sound of both the bass and guitars to be heard. Horses for courses though.

[Gothic]

8 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

I think I prefer the B7k, the VU seems to sit in with the guitars better making one big sound but the B7k seems to sit slightly underneath allowing the sound of both the bass and guitars to be heard. Horses for courses though.

 

Yeah, I find myself preferring the B7k for a lot of stuff but I do think the Vintage will cover a lot more ground and probably be more present in various different band mixes with its more pronounced mids. Hence my indecision...

Out of curiosity, did you prefer the pick or fingers version?

[DiMarco]

Both B7K and VMT did not tick any boxes with me, B7K being fizzy and VMT drowning in the mix it is an inaudible effect between guitars. The Alpha-Omega beat both in my case but even that got replaced by the much better for more classic punkrock sounding Tech21 YYZ pedal.

 

I concluded Darkglass is for metalheads only after years of owning several of their pedals.

 

 

 

[Gothic]

12 minutes ago, DiMarco said:

Both B7K and VMT did not tick any boxes with me, B7K being fizzy and VMT drowning in the mix it is an inaudible effect between guitars. The Alpha-Omega beat both in my case but even that got replaced by the much better for more classic punkrock sounding Tech21 YYZ pedal.

 

I concluded Darkglass is for metalheads only after years of owning several of their pedals.

 

 

 

 

Quite interesting! I had the opposite experience! I tried the Tech21 stuff and just found them too harsh and fizzy, couldn't really like any of them. Which led me to the DG stuff which I very much like! Surprising to hear that the VMT got lost in the mix.

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, Gothic said:

 

Yeah, I find myself preferring the B7k for a lot of stuff but I do think the Vintage will cover a lot more ground and probably be more present in various different band mixes with its more pronounced mids. Hence my indecision...

Out of curiosity, did you prefer the pick or fingers version?

Def pick, but that’s prob cos I’m a pick player 

[Bigwan]

Vintage ultra with fingers for me!

 

As for the DG vs Tech21 argument I've always found the DG pedals to have an upper midrange fizz I couldn't dial out. I've owned the B3K, Vintage, B7K and Vintage Ultra. None of them worked for me. The amp (900v1) was a different story. The tone control in the drive section was a total game changer. 

 

However none of them could compete with the Tech21 dUg pedal. It's out of this world. Gone beyond all buying unfortunately.

 

I'd maybe like to try an X7 or X Ultra at some point, but at the minute the HX Stomp is scratching all pedal itches...

 

As an aside, from a quick look at early versions of the DG schematics they owe more than a little to the design of the Tech21 Bass Driver in how they shape their tone...