Helix in front of Ampeg rig

[Hammer_]

Hey guys. I’m looking for some advice or opinions. I’m playing a festival at the weekend and will be using the supplied back line which will be an SVT 450 with an 810. How would I use my helix in front of this? I guess I wouldn’t want to colour the amp too much but would probably use some OD, Compressor and would need use I’m of the tuner. Do I need to go into the effects return or the normal jack input? Any other considerations?? Cheers dudes. 

[WinterMute]

The Effects return cuts out the pre-amp and injects your signal directly into the power amp with the master volume in circuit, which is fine if you want to use the Helix as the entire tone shaping system, not the Ampeg pre-amp. 

 

If you want to use the Ampeg sound, run into the input on the front, engage the 15db pad and set the output level of the Helix to about 70%, then use the gain controls to set the tone in the Ampeg.

 

If the clip light comes on with little gain in the Ampeg, back the Helix off to say 50% and make the gain up in the Ampeg preamp, EQ your sound to suit, and turn up the master volume till you can't hear the drummer.

[Skybone]

Pretty much sums it up.

 

If you want to use the Helix as your main sound, use the Effects Return.

 

If you want to include the Ampeg into your sound, look into the "4 Cable Method".

[bagsieblue]

One thing I am now more aware of and like to have options on is dependant on where the sound guy takes the bass feed from.

As this is a festival I'm assuming there will be a PA to do all the heavy lifting.

 

I like to have options through my HX Stomp for where the sound guy takes the feed from to run into the PA.

 

1 - In front of the amp, so no colour to the PA feed from the amp or the cab.

2 - From the amp DI, so colour from the amp, but not from the cab.

3 - Micing up the cab - gives colour from the amp and the cab

 

I then use different present (plus minus amp blocks, cab blocks) depending on where the feed is taken from.

[Downunderwonder]

34 minutes ago, bagsieblue said:

One thing I am now more aware of and like to have options on is dependant on where the sound guy takes the bass feed from.

As this is a festival I'm assuming there will be a PA to do all the heavy lifting.

 

I like to have options through my HX Stomp for where the sound guy takes the feed from to run into the PA.

 

1 - In front of the amp, so no colour to the PA feed from the amp or the cab.

2 - From the amp DI, so colour from the amp, but not from the cab.

3 - Micing up the cab - gives colour from the amp and the cab

 

I then use different present (plus minus amp blocks, cab blocks) depending on where the feed is taken from.

A soundman that refuses to audition the send from a Helix is not a soundman. If he insists on going bass to DI first then all is lost unless you want to 'kick up a fuss' by insisting on them having a listen.

[bagsieblue]

26 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

A soundman that refuses to audition the send from a Helix is not a soundman. If he insists on going bass to DI first then all is lost unless you want to 'kick up a fuss' by insisting on them having a listen.

 

Apologies - maybe I wasn't clear  - the Helix is always in the signal chain, the variables are after that.

 

Signal chain.

Bass > Helix >.....

 

Option 1  - DI Splitter Box, therefore in front of the amp - 1 x Feed to PA, 1 x Feed to Amp and Cab (for monitoring no influence on FOH feed)

Option 2 - > Amp.... DI from back of amp feed to PA, amp out to Cab (for monitoring no influence on FOH feed)

Options 3 - > Amp > Cab.....PA feed from Micing the cab = same monitor feed and FOH feed.

Edited September 7, 2021 by bagsieblue

[Downunderwonder]

9 minutes ago, bagsieblue said:

 

Apologies - maybe I wasn't clear  - the Helix is always in the signal chain, the variables are after that.

 

Signal chain.

Bass > Helix >.....

 

Option 1  - DI Splitter Box, therefore in front of the amp - 1 x Feed to PA, 1 x Feed to Amp and Cab (for monitoring no influence on FOH feed)

Option 2 - > Amp.... DI from back of amp feed to PA, amp out to Cab (for monitoring no influence on FOH feed)

Options 3 - > Amp > Cab.....PA feed from Micing the cab = same monitor feed and FOH feed.

All good.

[bagsieblue]

9 hours ago, Hammer_ said:

Hey guys. I’m looking for some advice or opinions. I’m playing a festival at the weekend and will be using the supplied back line which will be an SVT 450 with an 810. How would I use my helix in front of this? I guess I wouldn’t want to colour the amp too much but would probably use some OD, Compressor and would need use I’m of the tuner. Do I need to go into the effects return or the normal jack input? Any other considerations?? Cheers dudes. 

One other thing to mention is the SVT450 is one of the least ampeggy sounding amps they do. 

Its the same as the B2RE - but in a casing to make it look like a tube amp.

It's a S/S amp and fairly neutral, not really tubey sounding at all, so you may be better getting the colour you want from before the amp rather than relying on the amp.

[BigRedX]

I wouldn't bother with the backline at all.

 

Bass into the Helix. Helix DI'd into the PA. Bass sound from the Helix in the FoH and Monitors.

 

Job done.

[Downunderwonder]

2 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I wouldn't bother with the backline at all.

 

Bass into the Helix. Helix DI'd into the PA. Bass sound from the Helix in the FoH and Monitors.

 

Job done.

All good if the monitors are pro but so often they are anything but and the stage rig is your lifeline.

[BigRedX]

1 minute ago, Downunderwonder said:

All good if the monitors are pro but so often they are anything but and the stage rig is your lifeline.

 

Every festival I've played in the last 15 years - especially those where good quality backline has been supplied, the monitors have been more than up to the job. Most of the time as soon as I've stepped away from being directly in front of the bass rig I've been able to hear more of "me" in the monitors than from the rig. Unless you play at levels where the backline is seriously interfering with the FoH sound, it's for show only.

[Downunderwonder]

6 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

backline is seriously interfering with the FoH sound

I brought my own backline to a festival once not knowing what was to be provided. As it turned out there was no backline provided!

 

Imagine my surprise when my mic'd 210 was completely drowned out by the 215 plus horn monitor on the other side of the drummer! At least it sounded the same, but LOUD!

 

Drummer got that turned down but there was a bunch of other monitors all over and the 'soundcrew' spent the rest of the gig asking me to turn down as the stage bass was ruining the FOH. Tragic.

[Hammer_]

On 07/09/2021 at 09:24, BigRedX said:

I wouldn't bother with the backline at all.

 

Bass into the Helix. Helix DI'd into the PA. Bass sound from the Helix in the FoH and Monitors.

 

Job done.

This is a good idea as I have everything set up in the patch so I’ll get the sound guy to DI from the helix. 
 

What about getting a 1/4 jack output to the amp/cab. As mentioned in the post it’s always a lifesaver instead of relying on stage monitors alone. 

[Lozz196]

I would, unless you get a soundcheck you may find the volume from the monitors unsuitable and it may just be a bugbear of mind but I hate seeing bands continually asking for up/down in the monitors, so if only a line check do backline as well. 

[acidbass]

I use my Helix in front of my amps all the time and just use it as an effects box really. Each one of my patches include a High and Low Cut EQ block, a compressor block and a Zeroamp block with varying degrees of intensity depending on the gig. Tone for days!

[MattW]

8 hours ago, acidbass said:

I use my Helix in front of my amps all the time and just use it as an effects box really. Each one of my patches include a High and Low Cut EQ block, a compressor block and a Zeroamp block with varying degrees of intensity depending on the gig. Tone for days!

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but which EQ do you use, and do you mind sharing your settings?  Have been considering doing something similar on my HX Effects patches, but haven't got round to trying the EQ's out yet.  Would give me a starting point at least.  Cheers!

 

[acidbass]

1 hour ago, MattW said:

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but which EQ do you use, and do you mind sharing your settings?  Have been considering doing something similar on my HX Effects patches, but haven't got round to trying the EQ's out yet.  Would give me a starting point at least.  Cheers!

 

 

I use the High and Low Cut block, cutting all lows below 50hz and all highs above 7khz.  Just gets rid of the unnecessary rumble/sparkle.  I find with the Low Cut especially that speakers don't have to work as hard, and therefore it seems like my amp has more power!

[MattW]

2 hours ago, acidbass said:

 

I use the High and Low Cut block, cutting all lows below 50hz and all highs above 7khz.  Just gets rid of the unnecessary rumble/sparkle.  I find with the Low Cut especially that speakers don't have to work as hard, and therefore it seems like my amp has more power!

 

Cheers, will give that a go!