Fender Player Plus....more blurred lines or a smart move?

[PaulWarning]

1 minute ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Innovate?

they do, with things like active basses, but luddites like me just think Leo, more or less, got it right first time and I'm not on my own, I had a Stingray once but soon went back to a Precision.

[Quilly]

20 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

Innovate?

I don’t think so , there has been a plethora of innovations over the years and what to a lot of bassists play today ? - Passive 4 string fender type basses, designed in the 50s. I would actually say more people are going back to basics than ever, myself included. You’re trying to fix something that’s not broken. 

[tegs07]

2 hours ago, skej21 said:

It’s not at all close, and yes it’s cheaper… which was exactly my point.
 

The concept I explained is assuming that the kind of person who is looking for a budget, “ball park vintage-spec” Fender would buy Vintera 🙂

If someone has a big budget and believes nitro and mm perfect exact reproduction will make them sound better I’m sure there is a market for them. For the rest of us a Vintera from the desired era will certainly do the job. Set it up nicely and use it plenty to give it the desired “mojo”.

[skej21]

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

If someone has a big budget and believes nitro and mm perfect exact reproduction will make them sound better I’m sure there is a market for them. For the rest of us a Vintera from the desired era will certainly do the job. Set it up nicely and use it plenty to give it the desired “mojo”.

I think you’re missing my point. It’s not about ‘sounding better’. There’re are a LOT of old dudes who want to collect things that are like the good old days, with disposable income. When I worked in the music shop, the amount of people who bought Gibson J-45 or wanted a Fender strat identical to Hank Marvin’s etc was crazy, and with Gibson it was a standard model. With Fender, you’d end up selling something that (like you say) was “good enough” or could “do the job” functionally, but it wasn’t exacting enough for those types of people to get an instrument they were happy with. 
 

i’m not saying the range is something that personally I would like, it’s just something I think Fender would be better focusing on

[tegs07]

5 minutes ago, skej21 said:

I think you’re missing my point. It’s not about ‘sounding better’. There’re are a LOT of old dudes who want to collect things that are like the good old days, with disposable income. When I worked in the music shop, the amount of people who bought Gibson J-45 or wanted a Fender strat identical to Hank Marvin’s etc was crazy, and with Gibson it was a standard model. With Fender, you’d end up selling something that (like you say) was “good enough” or could “do the job” functionally, but it wasn’t exacting enough for those types of people to get an instrument they were happy with. 
 

i’m not saying the range is something that personally I would like, it’s just something I think Fender would be better focusing on

I get it. I just think the custom shop range already caters for these guys.

[OllyW]

On 17/09/2021 at 14:50, theyellowcar said:

What gets me is finishes aside these are ostensibly the same basses as the MIM Deluxe family that clocked in 10-15% cheaper.  I have two MIM Deluxe PJs of different ages (one c.2005 with the 9v preamp and no active/passive, and one c.2015 with the same setup as these) and they’re both great, but neither would have me paying £1k.

You may be surprised to learn the MIM active deluxe models had already hit the £1K mark with the last Fender price increase back in January. 

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Fender-Deluxe-Active-P-Bass-Special-PF-Olympic-White/1ZDL?origin=product-ads&gclid=CjwKCAjw4qCKBhAVEiwAkTYsPNetAqMvlp5h8KEDSjEYEu2JDn6DHC7r9zrgp0n7ITUdEeKyyWY0jxoCHMgQAvD_BwE

 

They were priced around £800 two years ago when I managed to pick up a B-stock P bass without the gig bag for £600. It's not just Fender though, the Sterling Ray 34 has also crept up to become a £1K bass and it's not that long ago they were only £600 in the shops.

[skej21]

4 minutes ago, OllyW said:

You may be surprised to learn the MIM active deluxe models had already hit the £1K mark with the last Fender price increase back in January. 

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Fender-Deluxe-Active-P-Bass-Special-PF-Olympic-White/1ZDL?origin=product-ads&gclid=CjwKCAjw4qCKBhAVEiwAkTYsPNetAqMvlp5h8KEDSjEYEu2JDn6DHC7r9zrgp0n7ITUdEeKyyWY0jxoCHMgQAvD_BwE

 

They were priced around £800 two years ago when I managed to pick up a B-stock P bass without the gig bag for £600. It's not just Fender though, the Sterling Ray 34 has also crept up to become a £1K bass and it's not that long ago they were only £600 in the shops.

Standard really. The Nate Mendel was £575 RRP when i got mine after it first came out in 2012, and now they are £1199 RRP

[Lfalex v1.1]

10 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

they do, with things like active basses, but luddites like me just think Leo, more or less, got it right first time and I'm not on my own, I had a Stingray once but soon went back to a Precision.

 

10 hours ago, Quilly said:

I don’t think so , there has been a plethora of innovations over the years and what to a lot of bassists play today ? - Passive 4 string fender type basses, designed in the 50s. I would actually say more people are going back to basics than ever, myself included. You’re trying to fix something that’s not broken. 

 

I wasn't suggesting that Fender stop producing Ps and Js, but it feels like they've mistaken the Fender Archive for their R&D department.

The original P and J were innovative enough in their day, even if they did lean on existing guitar designs a bit.

Even Leo himself moved on a bit; the Stingray headstock, Pickup, and the Active EQ. After that, there's the other refinements at G&L; the saddle-lock bridge, Tri-tone EQ and MFD pickups.

Fender do have some nice instruments in their back-catalogue;

 

Roscoe Beck signature

Stu Hamm Urge I & II

Elite Precision

Marcus Miller Jazz

Hot Rod Precision

 

To name but a few.  Okay, they're mostly variations on existing instruments, but it's a start. 

All they do at the moment is the Dimension.

I think what I lament the most is that they do so little in terms of product development. All we've had in recent years was Hi-mass bridges, graphite reinforcing rods in the neck, a different tone pot and the ill-fated s1 switch. 

[AndyTravis]

On 16/09/2021 at 10:10, Eldon Tyrell said:

Think I have seen the new blue gradient finish before:

 

 

Stratoburst 1983

[AndyTravis]

On 16/09/2021 at 10:10, Eldon Tyrell said:

Think I have seen the new blue gradient finish before:

 

 

Stratoburst 1983

[AndyTravis]

On 16/09/2021 at 10:10, Eldon Tyrell said:

Think I have seen the new blue gradient finish before:

 

 

Stratoburst 1983

[AndyTravis]

Wow. Basschat did a brain fart.

[Eldon Tyrell]

9 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

Wow. Basschat did a brain fart.

Got yourself three likes. Not bad, eh? 😉 

 

 

[AndyTravis]

The green p/j absolutely caught my eye.

 

then I realised the preamp would end up in the bin and I’d possibly change the pickups.

 

So…it’s a no.

 

And, the horizontal burst finishes work best with maple, the jazz in the ice blue metallic with maple board is only available in the 5 string.

 

the list goes on.

[AndyTravis]

Just now, Eldon Tyrell said:

Got yourself three likes. Not bad, eh? 😉 

 

 

Gonna rub one out over that.

 

is there a badge for that?

[Eldon Tyrell]

1 minute ago, AndyTravis said:

Gonna rub one out over that.

 

is there a badge for that?

Problem is you are already a Grand Master. Where can you go from here? Maybe Grand Master II (like Professional II)? Or Grand Master 2nd Dan? 🙂 

[AndyTravis]

20 minutes ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

Problem is you are already a Grand Master. Where can you go from here? Maybe Grand Master II (like Professional II)? Or Grand Master 2nd Dan? 🙂 

ELITE GRAND PROFESSIONAL MASTER II DELUXE™️

[horrorshowbass]

On 20/09/2021 at 21:19, Eldon Tyrell said:

Problem is you are already a Grand Master. Where can you go from here? Maybe Grand Master II (like Professional II)? Or Grand Master 2nd Dan? 🙂 

If he rubs one out, " grand master (bater?)

[horrorshowbass]

I have GAS for the jazzes but don't know between the aged CAR player plus, 300 quid more than a standard player. And the US made performer is only 100 quid more. The AM Pro ii are crazy priced so unfortunately out of my league

[Geek99]

On 20/09/2021 at 08:13, Quilly said:

I guarantee if you made a fender exactly per the 60s specifications people today wouldn’t like it. 

What would they not like about it? Excuse my curiosity 

[TheGreek]

On 16/09/2021 at 00:00, acidbass said:

Huge money for a Mex. Why not just buy a Sire G&L?

 

Fixed it for you...

[horrorshowbass]

Worth 300 quid more than a player? Needs a pearloid pg obviously.

 

[Bassfinger]

On 16/09/2021 at 07:36, Lozz196 said:

It’s pretty serious money, and when you can pick up a used US Precision for under a grand, well I know where I’d look to spend.

Its not that clear cut.

 

Over the years the QC for both factories has been very variable. There are plenty of frankly shocking (for the money) MIA's about, and some very lovely MIM's. And vice versa.

 

One can only make a judgement on an individual instrument by instrument basis, as the variable QC makes blanket judgements rather meaningless.

 

 

[theyellowcar]

58 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

Its not that clear cut.

 

Over the years the QC for both factories has been very variable. There are plenty of frankly shocking (for the money) MIA's about, and some very lovely MIM's. And vice versa.

 

One can only make a judgement on an individual instrument by instrument basis, as the variable QC makes blanket judgements rather meaningless.

 

 

True there’s a lot of variability through the eras. I know if I were buying used today I wouldn’t spend market rate on any Fender from around the era I was “growing up” playing (mid 00’s) without playing it first. And I would still then question the relative value vs something more current because my experience of playing later models (especially Mexican) is comparably better than the raft that I played from back then.
 

There’s also the matter of the overlapping ranges - how do you objectively evaluate a premium Mexican model against a paired back American model which is delivering the prestige of an American made instrument while solving for a price? Other than getting your hands on them of course!  

[gjones]

On 16/09/2021 at 09:47, SumOne said:

I guess the Fender range is now something like this:

 

• Squier £350)
• Player (£700)
• Vintera (£900)
• Player Plus (£1,000)
• American Performer (£1,200)
• American Professional (£1,700)
• American Original (£1,800)
• American Ultra (£1,900)
• Custom Shop  (>£3,000)

 

....that's confusing enough but as they seem to change it each year and there are discontinued names like the Elite and American Deluxe, add to that the made in Japan/Mexico/USA versions and about 60 years of Jazz and P Basses with certain years being good/bad and different necks/pickups etc. what initially seems a fairly simple choice of Jazz or P Bass from Fender becomes really confusing.

 

The Fender business model is shocking, if you want to make a profit and be successful.

 

The last thing you'd want to do is build a bass, or guitar, that never goes out of fashion, lasts forever, appreciates in value the older it gets and will be the only guitar or bass you'll ever need to buy in your lifetime.

 

Which is what Fender did for years.

 

That's why there's so many different models these days, the range is supposed to be aspirational. You buy a Squier and aspire to get a Mex, you get a Mex and aspire to get a vintera, you get a Vintera etc, etc, etc.