5 string Vs 4 string drop tuning/hipshot

[SumOne]

I'm considering going from 5 string to a 4 string with a hipshot drop D tuner and wondering if others have made this move and liked it/regretted it.

 

• Does adding the hipshot make the headstock too heavy and un-balance the Bass?
• Does using a hipshot and changing from E to D mean that the intonation is out for that string, does it mess with the neck tension/truss rod settings etc?
• Do you need to get specific (e.g. higher tension) E string so it also works when moved to D?
• I've got very used to the patterns of standard 4 or 5 string tunings- does switching just one string occasionally from E to D take a lot of getting used to?

 

My thinking is that while I like my 5 string I've noticed that the B and C are rarely used but when I owned 4 string Basses I found that the low E wasn't quite low enough sometimes. Benefits of going to a 4 string with hipshot for drop D would be one fewer string to mute, wider string spacing, generally lighter basses, being able to slap the open E string without the B string getting in the way (having the open E for slap is partly why I'd go for hipshot rather than just down-tuning). I would miss the efficiency that the 5th string adds (e.g. playing the low F on the 6th fret of the B string rather than 1st fret of the E string) and playing high up the B string makes some nice almost double-bass type tones but I don't think I'd miss the low B and C much.

 

In the end I guess it's down to personal preference and this probably just an excuse to get new gear but some experienced opinions would be useful.

 

 

[uk_lefty]

23 minutes ago, SumOne said:

• Does adding the hipshot make the headstock too heavy and un-balance the Bass?
• Does using a hipshot and changing from E to D mean that the intonation is out for that string, does it mess with the neck tension/truss rod settings etc?
• Do you need to get specific (e.g. higher tension) E string so it also works when moved to D?
• I've got very used to the patterns of standard 4 or 5 string tunings- does switching just one string occasionally from E to D take a lot of getting used to?

1. No, no difference really.

2. Probably a little but that's the trade off for the convenience. Consider also what you're actually doing it for, is it just for the odd open D string or acrobatics all over that string?

3. No.

4. It depends. I don't drop to D very often so it does take my small brain quite a while to work out which notes are where if I'm trying to figure out a new song. Then on times where I don't have my D tuner bass available and I play an octave higher on a standard bass I mess up my muscle memory. I guess the more you use it the easier it is. Also if you think in terms of notes you should be fine, if you think in terms of hand position it may be different. I haven't explained that very well, apologies.

 

 

 

 

 

[BigRedX]

I haven't used the Hipshot drop D tuner, but for me down-tuning the E string to D makes it far to slack for my playing style. Therefore I've stuck with 5-strings with an extra-heavy low-B.

 

You can try this for yourself by simply doing what I did which was to change the tuning of the E string and see if you can get on with the feel. I couldn't, nor could I find a compromise by going slightly heavier on the E (tuned to E it was too stiff and tuned to D to slack, but I am very particular about my string tensions/compliances and even when playing guitar, I have a separate instrument permanently tuned to drop D with an extra-heavy E string). Bear in mind that on a standard bass guitar string set, every 5 semi-tones of down tuning is handled by a string 20-25 thou heavier, so it shouldn't be surprising that using a single string to handle tunings two semi-tones apart is always going to be a bit of a compromise.

Edited September 24, 2021 by BigRedX

[SumOne]

Cheers @uk_lefty and @BigRedX

 

About 90% of my playing is fine on 4 string with standard tuning (Reggae/Ska, Funk, some Blues and Rock) but I do like occasionally playing Doom/Stoner type metal that needs lower tunings so I suppose standard tuning with a hipshot for the occasional drop D is quite a good compromise so that E string is only made a bit slack 10% of the time when dropped to D and I don't have that extra 5th string sat there as a thumb rest for the 90% of the time when it's not needed. 

 

I have spent a few years learning how to play 5 strings properly so perhaps I'm making life hard for myself now considering learning how to play with one string just occasionally drop tuned to mess with my muscle memory of notes and chord shapes. Keeps me busy I guess!

[Paulhauser]

59 minutes ago, SumOne said:

 

• I've got very used to the patterns of standard 4 or 5 string tunings- does switching just one string occasionally from E to D take a lot of getting used to?

 

 

 

I use drop tuning only for specific songs in our set  (drop the low B to A before those songs and back after them) and since this is how I play them for long it is second nature for me. I would not worry about that. 

[Al Krow]

There lots of positional benefits to a 5er including ease of being able to change key, in addition to the the low D, C and B notes - which do give you the ability to play an octave down in those keys as compared to a 4 string, which can be good. And there's pretty much nothing you can do on a 4 string that you can't do on a 5, but not so true the other way around. But I'm sure you know all that already!

 

It's pretty much why I mostly play 5s these days, apart from three solitary basses a EUB, an 8 string and a 6 string, which are all different again. 

 

Quite a few folk set out to make the move from 4 strings to 5 but give up before getting confident on 5s. You've cracked it, so why not keep one 5 in your herd and use it when it will be useful and revert to 4s when you don't? Just my tuppence worth. 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Al Krow

[BigRedX]

I think maybe the import question to ask is why you are conserving moving from 5-string bass to 4-string?

[fretmeister]

1: Depends on the bass. If the balance is marginal now, then the extra weight can be an issue. You could remove all the tuners and replace them with Ultralights so the added mass of the D-Tuner is offset by the others being replaced for a much lighter option. That's what I did.

 

2: Nothing you'd notice

 

3: Some people go for a heavier E some do not. Billy Sheehan uses a 110 E string. I'm happy with a 100. But I don't play very hard.

 

4: If you only use it occasionally it will take longer to get used to than if you use it a lot.

 

5: Unless you are looking at a 4 string that has a sound that you cannot replicate on your existing 5, or you want a 4 because of a comfort issue then I'm not sure it's worth the effort as you already have the 5. Unless GAS obviously. GAS wins every time even for stuff we don't need.

[SumOne]

@BigRedX I've probably got too much time on my hands and am looking for an excuse to buy something new! My main thinking is that a 4 string is slightly easier for slap (slapping the B string is always a bit too thuddy - get rid of that and the E is a bit easier to hit without having to avoid the B, wider string spacing for the others too) and slightly easier for 90% of my other playing that doesn't need the 5th string (fewer strings to mute). For the occasional times I need to go lower than E perhaps a hipshot drop D covers it.

 

Buy yeah @Al Krow  I think you're right. I've spent the time getting used to playing a 5 and I'm probably just as well off sticking with that. 

 

@fretmeisterI think a bad case of GAS is my trouble. Perhaps I'll be able to justify a new toy without getting rid of the 5, I could get a cheap 4 specifically set up as a good slapper.

[BigRedX]

I don't slap and therefore none of your 5-string problems affect me (also I've being playing 5-string pretty much exclusively since I came back to bass guitar in the early 90s so I'm well used to it). However I can't imagine that a down-tuned E string will be any easier to slap then trying to avoid hitting the low-B (you ought to have your string-muting sorted out to avoid this anyway).

 

If you really want to go the drop tuner route, I suggest that you retune a 4-string bass and see how you get on with it for a week or two before you spend any money.

[peteb]

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

• Does adding the hipshot make the headstock too heavy and un-balance the Bass?
• Does using a hipshot and changing from E to D mean that the intonation is out for that string, does it mess with the neck tension/truss rod settings etc?
• Do you need to get specific (e.g. higher tension) E string so it also works when moved to D?
• I've got very used to the patterns of standard 4 or 5 string tunings- does switching just one string occasionally from E to D take a lot of getting used to?

 

I've been using 4 strings with a 'D' tuner for 35 years or so. Although I do have a couple of 5 strings, because there some gigs where you really can't get around using them, I much prefer the feel of 4 string basses. 

 

In answer to your questions:  

1) No

2) Not that you would really notice (obviously the bottom string is a bit slacker when the D tuner is activated).

3) You don't have to, but it is something that you might want to consider if you are going to tune down to D for most of the set.

4)  You have to get used to different patterns on the bottom two strings, but you get used to that pretty quickly - however, it depends on what you are playing.

 

The reason that I got a 5 string is that I went to an audition where I had to play a part written on a 5 string. Trying to play it on a 4 string with a drop D turned it from a busy but relatively simple part into something pretty near unplayable. Against that, there are parts written for a drop D that are unplayable on a 5 string in normal tuning (just try playing Soundgarden tunes on a 5 string)! 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by peteb

[fretmeister]

GAS means adding to the collection. Never reduce it!

 

I don't make the rules!

[Al Krow]

53 minutes ago, SumOne said:

Buy yeah @Al Krow  I think you're right. I've spent the time getting used to playing a 5 and I'm probably just as well off sticking with that. 

 

And we've all failed to mention the most important thing about a 5 string which comes for free...that fantastic thumb rest (aka the B string) 😁

[NancyJohnson]

I've got D-tuners fitted to two of my basses, they're not something that I'd be entirely happy flipping on and off during songs, I'd sooner just flip it off to a D for convenience and just leave it there.  Alternatively, I'd just tune the E down a tone and get on with things.

 

Just on the topic of these, while they're useful, they never really stay on point; the tuning does waver with every use - the string never pops back to an E, it's always predominantly flat.  It's a pity that the little threaded nut/spring mechanism couldn't be stabilised - I'm unsure whether losing the spring and simply installing a threaded nut would solve things or whether the issue is caused by a combination of the string slackening/retightening or it getting stuck on the nut.

[peteb]

29 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

I've got D-tuners fitted to two of my basses, they're not something that I'd be entirely happy flipping on and off during songs, I'd sooner just flip it off to a D for convenience and just leave it there.  Alternatively, I'd just tune the E down a tone and get on with things.

 

Just on the topic of these, while they're useful, they never really stay on point; the tuning does waver with every use - the string never pops back to an E, it's always predominantly flat.  It's a pity that the little threaded nut/spring mechanism couldn't be stabilised - I'm unsure whether losing the spring and simply installing a threaded nut would solve things or whether the issue is caused by a combination of the string slackening/retightening or it getting stuck on the nut.

 

I actually had an email conversation with Billy Sheehan about this very point and he advised me on how to get around it. 

 

The reason that the string comes back off pitch after you have flicked the switch back to the starting position to bring the string back up to the E, is because it will get slightly caught in the slot in the nut.  All you have to do is get in the habit of lifting the string slightly out of the nut slot once you have returned to the higher pitch and the problem disappears. 

 

There you have it, a tip straight from King Billy! Of course it also helps if you have the D tuner properly set-up / installed and ensure that there is plenty of graphite / nut sauce or whatever in the E string slot on the nut. 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by peteb

[NicoMcJ]

I use a 105 on the bass I flip between drop D and E.  I have used Hipshots but I found I literally never used it mid-song.  A song I play is either standard or Drop D.

 

For this reason I took them off and sold them. Now I just arrange my setlist so all the Drop D songs are together (as they’re often the same for the guitarist) and hey presto! It’s one less thing to potentially break/go wrong mid gig. Additionally, as others have said, the pitch return wasn’t always 100% true to E so I needed to refine anyway 🤷‍♂️
 

In terms of GAS satiety, get two new 4 strings. One for standard and one for Drop D. You could get a Digitech Drop as well; these are great fun.

[pineweasel]

I've used Hipshot detuners for years and found the tuning to be very accurate. There is a knack to the initial setup with a new string, and some graphite in the nut slot helps too. There's a video from Hipshot on Youtube that explains it all

[Lozz196]

This is something I’m going through at present, I have a 5-string Precision but only play a low D in 2 songs so have an Extender on my 4-string Precision. That said I may well start using the 5-er in the band though the low B is a tad floppy, might have to get a heavier gauge.

[fretmeister]

I've always found the D-Tuner to be really accurate as long as the unit itself is well lubed, and the nut is cut right and smooth.

[uk_lefty]

One issue I've had with fitting D tuners is that my Luther had to grind a bit of metal off it to fit it on to an MIM Jazz with Gotoh tuners.

[Delberthot]

I made the switch about 5 or 6 years ago.

 

My reasoning at the time as that I had a fantastic but really heavy Stingray 5 string with the ceramic pickup so decided to get a 4 string Sterling (also with a ceramic pickup) as I thought that it would be lighter. Ultimately it weighed about the same but hey ho.

 

I initially used a Hipshot with a double stop lever tuned to D and B. The B was mainly for playing Get Lucky which we don't do any more so I've reverted back to the standard lever tuned to D. I also used to use it for Uptown Funk but prefer using an octave pedal

 

Most of the time I use it mid-song.  a couple of examples would be at the end of the sax solo in I've Had the Time of My Life where if goes to the low D. I flip it down during the solo, use it for that part then flip it up when the vocals come back in as the first 2 notes sung are D & E. The other one would be the live version of Crazy In Love where it goes into Crazy by Gnarls Barklay so I need a low D for that.

 

I do have a 5 string for times when nothing else will do but I don't think I've actually needed it yet.

 

I'm using Ultralites for the other tuners and I imagine it would only be a few grams of a difference for the Xtender over the standard tuner

 

As a young fan of Pink Floyd and Eric Clapton I learned how to play in drop D when I was about 14 to Eric Clapton's Bad Love and Another Brick in the Wall Part 2. They're slow enough that you can work out where everything is in relation to the new tuning

 

The important thing is to set it up properly as per the aforementioned video. Tuning the E slightly flat, drop the lever then raise it up. Tuning up slightly and repeating this process until the E is in tune when you bring it back up. Vasoline where the lever makes contact with the tuner and graphite etc on the nut under the E string keeps everything flowing smoothly

[mr4stringz]

Different strokes and all that, but as I  never managed to gel with fivers I’ve had one 4 string tuned BEAD for 20 years or so. All depends on how much you use the G when playing the stoner/doom stuff of course.

 

Hell, if nowt else it’s a great reason to buy another bass! 🤣

Edited September 24, 2021 by mr4stringz

[Cuzzie]

Drop D levers are great, gives a whole new freedom to playing the bass and versatile.

I have ‘Em on pretty much all my basses - they stay in tune, use them mid song or not at all - it’s not hard.

In fact Dont start now - Dua Lipa is a good one to do it on, drop it for the pre chorus bit, then back up again.

[MacDaddy]

I've had 5 string, and 6 string basses, but I've found my home with double octave necks and D extended fretboards, both headed and headless, so no having to get use to a detuned E string 😁

[such]

I absolutely love Hipshot D-Tuners. Have had them on most of my 4-strings over last 2 decades. Also, I haven't had (or needed) a 5-string for a few years, although I admit I miss it sometimes, because GAS. 

 

If you like doom etc, you may be familiar with the band DVNE. When I auditioned for them few years ago, my .105 E tuned down to Bb and sounded awesome via both an SVT and a Verellen Meatsmoke. 

 

On a bass that's comfortably well balanced it won't affect it much.