Markbass combo amp repair

[PaulHornBass]

Can anyone recommend somewhere to get my Markbass Mini CMD 121P combo serviced? It is growing increasingly crochety - one day it will be nice and smooth, another day harsh sounding with distorted lows. Some of the pots are crackly too. This is all at home practice volume. In short I could do with having it looked at by someone who knows what they are doing! I'm based in South London... All advice gratefully received! 🙏 

[lemmywinks]

MSL are taking care of MarkBass stuff now, I use the term loosely as the cost of repair will most likely be greater than buying a used MB head and switching it out. The combo heads are rebadged LM heads.
https://www.mslpro.co.uk/customer-support/

 

Probably worth just seeing if it's a scratchy pot or something obvious first though.

[PaulHornBass]

Thanks mate - I'll get in touch with them and see what they say 👍🏻  And yes, I've heard that about the cost of MB repairs so am approaching this with a little trepidation... Fingers crossed.

[PaulHornBass]

7 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

MSL are taking care of MarkBass stuff now, I use the term loosely as the cost of repair will most likely be greater than buying a used MB head and switching it out. The combo heads are rebadged LM heads.
https://www.mslpro.co.uk/customer-support/

 

Probably worth just seeing if it's a scratchy pot or something obvious first though.

Thanks mate - I'll get in touch with them and see what they say 👍🏻  And yes, I've heard that about the cost of MB repairs so am approaching this with a little trepidation... Fingers crossed.

[BassBunny]

It's actually Real Electronics in Sheffield who are the authorised repairers. Here are their charges.

£35 to diagnose the problem, which you get back if you go ahead. £69 fixed labour, £18 courier fee to send it back + parts + VAT.

I am pretty sure they don't repair to component level so just "board swappers".

As @lemmywinks has said, the repair cost is likely to be greater than buying a used head.

[PaulHornBass]

8 minutes ago, BassBunny said:

It's actually Real Electronics in Sheffield who are the authorised repairers. Here are their charges.

£35 to diagnose the problem, which you get back if you go ahead. £69 fixed labour, £18 courier fee to send it back + parts + VAT.

I am pretty sure they don't repair to component level so just "board swappers".

As @lemmywinks has said, the repair cost is likely to be greater than buying a used head.

Ah cheers for this. Must admit I'm a total novice when it comes to something like changing a combo head. I'm based in London, so I wonder if there's somewhere on Denmark St where they'd take a look and install a new head for me if needed.

[M@23]

It just seems uneconomical to repair Markbass stuff now. I really like their gear, but everyone I know that has had an issue out of warranty has been burnt by repair costs. Much more than likely easier, quicker and cheaper to buy a 2nd hand amp and swap it over. Maybe recoup some of the cost by selling yours as a faulty unit!

[yorks5stringer]

1 hour ago, PaulHornBass said:

Ah cheers for this. Must admit I'm a total novice when it comes to something like changing a combo head. I'm based in London, so I wonder if there's somewhere on Denmark St where they'd take a look and install a new head for me if needed.

 It's literally 4 screws to remove the head from a CMD121P. You could do some easy checks by removing the grill and seeing if the terminals onto the speaker are loose. However the heads are not sold seperately as the one in a combo does not have a top plate. It is possible to coax a LMIII amp into the space but not all the screws line up without a little modification.

[PaulHornBass]

4 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

 It's literally 4 screws to remove the head from a CMD121P. You could do some easy checks by removing the grill and seeing if the terminals onto the speaker are loose. However the heads are not sold seperately as the one in a combo does not have a top plate. It is possible to coax a LMIII amp into the space but not all the screws line up without a little modification.

Ok, doesn't sound *too* tricky even for me...  I may give it a try then if I'm feeling brave! 😅

[Phil Starr]

I do wonder if we shouldn't boycott MarkBass stuff until they sort out their customer support. The idea of paying out a fairly substantial sum just to be told your amp is uneconomic to repair is just not a great way to treat customers. I'm another facing a £200+ repair bill for a complete board change for what is probably a simple component failure. I'm fairly competent with electronics but the idea of taking on switch mode gear and surface mounted components is fairly daunting particularly without a circuit diagram to work from. I don't know if the rest of Europe is better served but I'm certain that if MarkBass cared about their customers they could negotiate a better deal than that currently offered by Real Electronics.

 

It is possible that with a fair proportion of bassists signed up to Basschat we might have enough muscle to gain better support from MarkBass in the UK. @MoJoKe is this something you could raise with MarkBass? 

[Ed_S]

I had my LM800 head in my CMD121P combo for a while and the heads swapped over/back just fine. This might have changed in recent times, but when I did it, the procedure was...

 

- remove the 4 long screws from the back of the combo to let you push the combo-head out

  (can need a good push from underneath - they're in fairly tight)

 

- remove the top from the new amp head.

 

- remove 4 or so screws from two short strips of metal that are attached to either side of the combo-head and screw these back onto the new amp head in the same place

  (these strips have the holes in them which line up with the long screws from the back of the combo - be careful to note which way round they went or move them over one at a time, as mine weren't perfectly symmetrical so had a 'right way' for all the screw holes to line back up - yours may be different, of course)

 

- slide the new amp into the combo

  (again, can need a good push, and I used one of the longer screws as a 'feeler' to know when it was in far enough - the screw dips into the hole in the converter strip)

 

- put all 4 long screws back in, being careful not to strip the thread in the converters as the metal is fairly soft

  (slowly back the screw up anticlockwise until it 'bumps' to let you know it's at the start of the thread before driving it home)

 

At that point I actually put the LM800's top on the ComboHead2 and used it as a standalone amp for a while - all the holes were there and lined up, but they weren't all 'tapped' as some had never had a screw through them, so I took the top back off and hoovered any stray bits of metal away once I'd fitted it for the first time.

 

I use Markbass gear and am pretty much resigned to the idea that if any of it breaks out of warranty I'll either chuck it away or do some donor surgery as above. That said, I do wonder whether the whole 'right to repair' thing that was being discussed a while back means that you could potentially ask for a quote for a main board and change it yourself now?

[lemmywinks]

I wonder if taking it to someone who does board repairs for laptops etc might be a better route, probably much cheaper I would guess. 

[PaulHornBass]

2 hours ago, Ed_S said:

I had my LM800 head in my CMD121P combo for a while and the heads swapped over/back just fine. This might have changed in recent times, but when I did it, the procedure was...

 

- remove the 4 long screws from the back of the combo to let you push the combo-head out

  (can need a good push from underneath - they're in fairly tight)

 

- remove the top from the new amp head.

 

- remove 4 or so screws from two short strips of metal that are attached to either side of the combo-head and screw these back onto the new amp head in the same place

  (these strips have the holes in them which line up with the long screws from the back of the combo - be careful to note which way round they went or move them over one at a time, as mine weren't perfectly symmetrical so had a 'right way' for all the screw holes to line back up - yours may be different, of course)

 

- slide the new amp into the combo

  (again, can need a good push, and I used one of the longer screws as a 'feeler' to know when it was in far enough - the screw dips into the hole in the converter strip)

 

- put all 4 long screws back in, being careful not to strip the thread in the converters as the metal is fairly soft

  (slowly back the screw up anticlockwise until it 'bumps' to let you know it's at the start of the thread before driving it home)

 

At that point I actually put the LM800's top on the ComboHead2 and used it as a standalone amp for a while - all the holes were there and lined up, but they weren't all 'tapped' as some had never had a screw through them, so I took the top back off and hoovered any stray bits of metal away once I'd fitted it for the first time.

 

I use Markbass gear and am pretty much resigned to the idea that if any of it breaks out of warranty I'll either chuck it away or do some donor surgery as above. That said, I do wonder whether the whole 'right to repair' thing that was being discussed a while back means that you could potentially ask for a quote for a main board and change it yourself now?

Thanks for the step-by-step! 👍🏻👍🏻

[yorks5stringer]

I had a Ninija 250 combo and a CMD 121P and the issue was the Ninja head is mounted on a shelf horizontally but the CMD head is mounted on its end vertically. I swapped them over but had to drill some extra holes in the case of the CMD head due to the screw holes not quite lining up. It  was no biggy and I could have left it with just 2 screws holding it.

Edited October 3, 2021 by yorks5stringer

[Dazm66]

Haven’t used them myself but a lot of people have recommended Essex Amp repairs to me. Might be worth giving them a call as not a million miles from you. 
http://www.essexamprepairs.co.uk/

[PaulHornBass]

51 minutes ago, Dazm66 said:

Haven’t used them myself but a lot of people have recommended Essex Amp repairs to me. Might be worth giving them a call as not a million miles from you. 
http://www.essexamprepairs.co.uk/

Thanks for the recommendation!

[Sparky Mark]

I love my Markbass amps but for many years have resigned myself to the fact that it's just not financially viable to repair them outside warranty. My solution has been to buy working secondhand units for roughly the cost of a repair as backups.

My 2009 LM3 is the only Markbass head that I bought new and it's still going strong but when it fails I'll have had good value I reckon. 

 

Thread derail warning - I'm hoping that Ashdown continues to thrive/survive for many more years because its customer support is second to none (certainly within the UK). If peace of mind was my number one priority Ashdown would be my choice without hesitation (and although relatively heavy by current standards, the ABM600 evo IV is as capable as any amp I've tried under £1000).

[TheGreek]

My local Amp Tech, Mal tells how he repaired a customers MB head. Apparently the UK suppliers can only sell a certain (low) amount of circuit boards each year. He was fortunate to get one of these for this customer but he puts little faith in the future supply.

 

If you want something reliable - get an Ashdown (with great customer service) or TE (which last forever).

[PaulHornBass]

To give a little update on where I'm at with this now... I contacted Essex Amp Repairs and they responded very quickly to let me know they can repair the amp for £59/hr plus parts. I can't fault their communication and it's good to hear that they will repair Markbass stuff as some other techs I've spoken to point-blank refuse. However, when parts (and courier) are factored in the cost unavoidably has the potential to mount up. Added to this, the amp has on the whole been behaving recently. I've also actually noticed that it's when using my higher output bass that problems start to occur - so I am going to have a fiddle with the setup on that instrument.

 

My medium term solution, along the lines of what @Sparky Mark is doing, is to search out a used Markbass cab that can either be paired with the 121p combo as long as it is functioning or with another head (my Trace Elliot ELF).

 

On the subject of Ashdown,  I've also had excellent customer support from them in the past. 

[Sparky Mark]

It's peculiar that the only Markbass product that failed on me was also a CMD121P combo. There are many other threads on Talkbass about this combo failing too. I really wonder whether it's something to do with the head being in a vertical orientation and subjected to vibration at higher volumes?

 

After repair I sold it and moved to two NY121P cabs with my LM3. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Sparky Mark

[fretmeister]

I've had MB amps for years and aside from a "dead on delivery" F1 head many years ago they've all been rock solid.

 

I'm also wondering if we are asking too much regarding the repair costs. Modern great sounding amps are very affordable but part of that affordability is due to the board configuration. Unfortunately loads of stuff made these days is uneconomic to repair or effectively impossible to repair because of the construction method and instead replacement of other still working bits is needed because they are all on the same board.

 

While I'm very pleased that the EU is pushing the "Right to Repair" idea for some products it's not as simple as for others. Washing machines - lovely! Stop riveting stuff in and use screws for easy swaps etc. But for an amp? Or a GPU, or a control board in a washing machine?

 

I'm sure MB could make a product that is easier to repair, perhaps with a modular board system to allow smaller parts of it to be replaced rather than all of it. But that will lead to a higher purchase price and it won't do anything about the labour costs.

 

Seems to be the way of the world.

[Sparky Mark]

35 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I've had MB amps for years and aside from a "dead on delivery" F1 head many years ago they've all been rock solid.

 

I'm also wondering if we are asking too much regarding the repair costs. Modern great sounding amps are very affordable but part of that affordability is due to the board configuration. Unfortunately loads of stuff made these days is uneconomic to repair or effectively impossible to repair because of the construction method and instead replacement of other still working bits is needed because they are all on the same board.

 

While I'm very pleased that the EU is pushing the "Right to Repair" idea for some products it's not as simple as for others. Washing machines - lovely! Stop riveting stuff in and use screws for easy swaps etc. But for an amp? Or a GPU, or a control board in a washing machine?

 

I'm sure MB could make a product that is easier to repair, perhaps with a modular board system to allow smaller parts of it to be replaced rather than all of it. But that will lead to a higher purchase price and it won't do anything about the labour costs.

 

Seems to be the way of the world.

Exactly. 

[Phil Starr]

4 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I've had MB amps for years and aside from a "dead on delivery" F1 head many years ago they've all been rock solid.

 

I'm also wondering if we are asking too much regarding the repair costs. Modern great sounding amps are very affordable but part of that affordability is due to the board configuration. Unfortunately loads of stuff made these days is uneconomic to repair or effectively impossible to repair because of the construction method and instead replacement of other still working bits is needed because they are all on the same board.

 

While I'm very pleased that the EU is pushing the "Right to Repair" idea for some products it's not as simple as for others. Washing machines - lovely! Stop riveting stuff in and use screws for easy swaps etc. But for an amp? Or a GPU, or a control board in a washing machine?

 

I'm sure MB could make a product that is easier to repair, perhaps with a modular board system to allow smaller parts of it to be replaced rather than all of it. But that will lead to a higher purchase price and it won't do anything about the labour costs.

 

Seems to be the way of the world.

It's more than that though. I wouldn't want to go back to the old levels of unreliability and high costs but there are still component level repairs which are possible. Two restrictions make repairs a closed shop: the unavailability of spare parts and the lack of circuit diagrams. I had a Behringer go down recently and could buy the board really cheaply from a trade supplier. It actually came fully assembled with a sub-chassis so the whole repair took less than an hour. Wharfedale (part of one of the biggest Hong Kong based manufacturing companies in our sector provide parts for PA by return of post. Why don't Mark Bass?  I suspect it's convenient to outsource responsibility for your old kit and there is a healthy deal for a monopoly on repairs.

 

In the end consumer satisfaction and reputation depend on a good product but also the lifetime experience of the purchaser. If Markbass want to wash their hands of their customers then that will quickly become reciprocal. 

[fretmeister]

I don't see MB washing their hands of their customers.

 

They have a warranty and they have a repair network in place. 

You've already answered why they don't do the same as Behringer / Wharfedale. Those 2 examples are enormous companies with hundreds of times the resources. They will be absorbing some of the cost of those cheap parts and not passing them onto the end user.

 

If you complained about Apple being a closed shop for repairs then I'd agree - they have enough money to do anything. But a small amp company that also makes a few basses and strings... not a chance unless they put the prices up first.

[yorks5stringer]

This arguement has raged for years on here and Talkbass re MB gear. I seem to remember them saying ( and as part of the sourcing move from Italy to Indo) that they had one of the lowest rates of component failure of the major players. That said, quite a few have pointed to issues with their CMD121P, but that could just be  because that is their biggest seller too? I had a less than one year old Ninja 250 210 combo with a really noisy fan bearing. As I was not the original buyer I had to pay for a new one but fitted it myself.