Amps? For your enjoyment or audience?

[Jamescullum]

So do you see an amp as a way for you to hear yourself or a way for the audience to hear the bass? 
 

Every gig I do the bass is going through the PA system so in theory the amp is there only for my listening pleasure. So in reality any amp will do. 
 

Do you see the value in a nice amp or is it a vanity thing? 

[wateroftyne]

Nice amp = Happy WoT = Happier audience, even if it's only a 1% increase.

[Chaosanator]

Bit of both. Sometimes (albeit rarely) I play gigs without the bass going through the PA, in which case my amp is for everyone's hearing pleasure.

[Downunderwonder]

Frequently both.

 

On backline supplied gigs I send my preamp to FOH.

[BigRedX]

I ditched my amp and cabs completely for the very reasons described by the OP.

 

I used to own a very nice (and very expensive) big rig that looked very impressive, but as the OP has discovered when all the gigs you do the bass goes through the PA it was starting to look a bit redundant. On the big stages as soon as I stepped away from being directly in front of my rig I could hear more or "me" in the fold back than I could from my cabs and on the smaller stages I was being asked to turn it down so as not to interfere with the FoH mix, that even stood directly in front of it the bass being supplied for the guitarist in his wedge on the other side of the stage was louder!

 

At the same time I'd been following the various FRFR threads on here and they were making a lot more sense to me, so I sold everything and bought a Line6 Helix Floor and an RCF 745 powered cab. As I also play Bass VI in another band having a "neutral" sounding amp and cab system was a lot more versatile and saved having to carry a massive and complex rig that could cope with both "guitar" and "bass" sounds. And after selling all my conventional amplification I actually came away with a small profit!

 

I don't miss the old big rig in the slightest. For the big gigs (Nottingham Rescue Rooms, Leeds O2 etc.) I do I don't even bother taking the RCF cab. I just give the PA a DI from the Helix and get a monitor mix that is balanced all the way across the stage. For the one gig I've done since changing where the PA was strictly vocals only the RCF was more than adequate for projecting the bass sound into the audience. For all the other in-between gigs I usually tuck the cab out of the way (the size and shape also lets me fit it in spaces where there would be no room for a conventional bass rig) and often have it firing across the stage so the rest of the band can hear me without it disturbing the FoH mix.

 

All the sound shaping is done with the Helix and therefore what the audience hears is exactly what I hear on stage only much louder and with no nasty frequencies ready to spill into the drum and vocal mics and ruin the sound.

 

It makes you think that the only bassists really benefiting from expensive boutique bass rigs are those who just play pub gigs where the bass doesn't go through the PA and their rig is entirely responsible for the bass sound that the audience hears.

[bassman7755]

2 hours ago, Jamescullum said:

So do you see an amp as a way for you to hear yourself or a way for the audience to hear the bass? 
 

Every gig I do the bass is going through the PA system so in theory the amp is there only for my listening pleasure. So in reality any amp will do. 
 

Do you see the value in a nice amp or is it a vanity thing? 

 

I use IEMs on stage, the stack is there for 1) aesthetics/vanity 2) the rest of the band to hear 3) the audience to hear if they are right in front of the stage. Even wearing the IEMs I do like feeling the rumble of it though so I guess thats 4).

 

I take an IEM feed from my own amp and get FOH to give me an everything-except-bass feed and I then balance the two myself. If playing without FOH or at rehearsal I use a reference mic to give me some ambient. Could never go back to trying hear myself at high volume through ear plugs, IEMs are such massive improvement.

Edited October 6, 2021 by bassman7755

[chris_b]

I don't get FOH much these days so my sound is for everyone.

 

My sound is always for my enjoyment. My playing is for the band and the audience.

[FinnDave]

These days, I mainly play small gigs where the PA is for the vocals and bass drum only, so my backline is what the audience hears. 

When I used to play larger gigs, the rest of band (especially the drummers) wanted me to use my backline so they could hear me (no idea why the monitors weren't enough for them). 

[lemmywinks]

8 hours ago, BigRedX said:

I ditched my amp and cabs completely for the very reasons described by the OP.

 

I used to own a very nice (and very expensive) big rig that looked very impressive, but as the OP has discovered when all the gigs you do the bass goes through the PA it was starting to look a bit redundant. On the big stages as soon as I stepped away from being directly in front of my rig I could hear more or "me" in the fold back than I could from my cabs and on the smaller stages I was being asked to turn it down so as not to interfere with the FoH mix, that even stood directly in front of it the bass being supplied for the guitarist in his wedge on the other side of the stage was louder!

 

At the same time I'd been following the various FRFR threads on here and they were making a lot more sense to me, so I sold everything and bought a Line6 Helix Floor and an RCF 745 powered cab. As I also play Bass VI in another band having a "neutral" sounding amp and cab system was a lot more versatile and saved having to carry a massive and complex rig that could cope with both "guitar" and "bass" sounds. And after selling all my conventional amplification I actually came away with a small profit!

 

I don't miss the old big rig in the slightest. For the big gigs (Nottingham Rescue Rooms, Leeds O2 etc.) I do I don't even bother taking the RCF cab. I just give the PA a DI from the Helix and get a monitor mix that is balanced all the way across the stage. For the one gig I've done since changing where the PA was strictly vocals only the RCF was more than adequate for projecting the bass sound into the audience. For all the other in-between gigs I usually tuck the cab out of the way (the size and shape also lets me fit it in spaces where there would be no room for a conventional bass rig) and often have it firing across the stage so the rest of the band can hear me without it disturbing the FoH mix.

 

All the sound shaping is done with the Helix and therefore what the audience hears is exactly what I hear on stage only much louder and with no nasty frequencies ready to spill into the drum and vocal mics and ruin the sound.

 

It makes you think that the only bassists really benefiting from expensive boutique bass rigs are those who just play pub gigs where the bass doesn't go through the PA and their rig is entirely responsible for the bass sound that the audience hears.

 

This entirely. I also made a small profit when I sold my bass rig even after buying an FRFR cab, IEM setup and also a cheap TC head for home use!

 

I'm quite tall so the chances of finding a pub stage/playing area that was optimal for both the audience and myself was very slim and there was always going to be a huge compromise one way or the other. Moving to a wedge monitor and then IEMs sorted this straight away and also meant I could have a full band mix if I wanted with full control over it.

 

Wouldn't go back, in fact after a recent band reshuffle I made the decision that if that style of monitoring was no longer an option I'd look for something else. Never been happier with my stage sound and it's never been cheaper or easier to achieve a great sound.

Edited October 6, 2021 by lemmywinks

[Newfoundfreedom]

I'm my case it's for both. The back line is also the FOH. I think I've played through a PA about twice in my life. 

[thodrik]

For smaller venues when I'm on tour and have no idea of what the provided PA and monitor system is like (or what the local soundperson operating the PA system is like), I like to have an amp and cab so that I can at least be sure that I will be able to hear myself. 

 

If I was a megastar playing larger venues with a top level PA or if I was in a function band that owned its own PA then I would certainly consider going the 'in ears' route. However, I am not so I don't. 

I do love the mechanics of amps in general, so I do own a massive valve amp and a 6x10. However, for practical gigging purposes it is an entirely unnecessary set up. 

[wateroftyne]

My gigging life is varied. I like the consistency of having my own amp. And I like its DI.

[Japhet]

I've spent a fortune on amps that I like the sound of (and since I'm dreadful at letting stuff go, I still have nearly all of them). I doubt 99% of punters could tell much/any difference between any of them and wouldn't care if they could. I rarely play through FOH so in answer to the question, my amp sound is for me and the 1% of punters who give a toss what the bass sounds like.

[Lozz196]

In my last band every gig went FOH so I had a Sansamp Para Driver for my sound, and whatever amp was there on the day was only to enable me to hear myself on stage (not keen on bass in monitors). 

Nowadays in my classic rock band the amp is very important to me. I’ve used the studios Ampeg amps with their 810s but prefer my Ashdowns. As it’s not a gigging band the amp is all for me!

[Muzz]

I do quite a few varieties of gigs, so I have a few setups; for the pub/function trio, we have a small but good quality PA (we use triggered drums) which we take to every gig, so why wouldn't I reduce my load and take the minimum kit and go into the PA? I'll either use IEMs or, for simplicity in small pubs, I have a Rumble 100 which I cut all the bass from and use as a small monitor, and let the PA do the heavy lifting.

 

I also have a bigger rig for use in the 'traditional' Rawk Band, which isn't set up for IEMs, the geetards use Marshall 100s/412s.

 

My sound comes from the Helix Stomp, so my amps are mostly flat; the only time I EQ is for the room.

 

I'm playing a big 'shared backline' gig at the weekend, there's a MarkBass 2x410 rig provided, again I'll just set it flat, use the Stomp in front of it, and let the engineer worry about the FOH.

 

Edit: TLDR, I guess the short answer is 'both'.

Edited October 6, 2021 by Muzz

[Cat Burrito]

Mainly for me. I'm in my late 40s playing original material so I can't always bank on having an audience. 🤣

[gjones]

9 hours ago, BigRedX said:

It makes you think that the only bassists really benefiting from expensive boutique bass rigs are those who just play pub gigs where the bass doesn't go through the PA and their rig is entirely responsible for the bass sound that the audience hears.

Yes I think you're right.

 

Bassists that play with big acts in large venues, are using IEM with a feed from the desk. The huge stack that they stand in front of on stage, is purely due to endorsement deals they have with manufacturers and is probably muted.

 

One particular bassist, who shall remain nameless, endorses one particular boutique amp and cab manufacturer at every opportunity he gets but he also is a very big fan of his vibrating bassboard, which he uses with his IEM.

[peteb]

28 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

My gigging life is varied. I like the consistency of having my own amp. And I like its DI.

 

That describes my approach.

 

Unless you are going to commit to in-ears 100%, then I would have thought that some sort of amp on stage is necessary (who wants that much bass guitar in a monitor). Personally, I would prefer that a sound engineer has some reference of what I want the bass to sound like. 

 

[lemmywinks]

37 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

That describes my approach.

 

Unless you are going to commit to in-ears 100%, then I would have thought that some sort of amp on stage is necessary (who wants that much bass guitar in a monitor). Personally, I would prefer that a sound engineer has some reference of what I want the bass to sound like. 

 

 

Even then you could just use an FRFR cab as conventional backline and it would obliterate pretty much every similarly sized bass amp on the market, then when provided with a PA just use it as a wedge monitor and have a full band mix through it. One box to fit every situation, if I was doing a wide variety of gigs that's what I'd do.

 

Amps are cool and I still like looking at them and using them at rehearsal (albeit through cabs I don't like), they're just the 3rd option for live use now.

[BigRedX]

It's all very well saying that a traditional rig gives a consistency of sound when gigging, but unless you're playing small venues where the PA is vocals only or you never move from being stood a couple of feet directly in front of the bass cabs, that's not the experience you are going to get. I was finding that on both large stages and small ones (where I was generally being asked to turn down so as not to mess with the FoH sound) that the moment I stepped away from being in front of my cabs the bass in the foldback for the other band members completely took over.

 

For me the bass amp and cabs were simply a means of getting the bass guitar to a volume suitable for the band I was playing in. Having an amp or cabs with "a sound" was never a priority when choosing what to buy and in many cases could be serious disadvantage if it wasn't the sound I was after. My bass sound comes from:

1. Me

2. My bass (although no where near as important as the other factors)

3. My effects

 

The important things I need to hear on stage is that I'm playing the right notes at the right point in the song.

 

The amp and cabs were a necessary evil, and now they are no longer necessary I'm glad to be rid of them.

Edited October 6, 2021 by BigRedX

[peteb]

25 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

 

Even then you could just use an FRFR cab as conventional backline and it would obliterate pretty much every similarly sized bass amp on the market, then when provided with a PA just use it as a wedge monitor and have a full band mix through it. One box to fit every situation, if I was doing a wide variety of gigs that's what I'd do.

 

Amps are cool and I still like looking at them and using them at rehearsal (albeit through cabs I don't like), they're just the 3rd option for live use now.

 

I suppose that I could, but why would I want to? If I play pubs then I will still need an amp for the whole room and when I do bigger gigs then I can take a relatively lightweight rig and benefit from having a consistent sound onstage (as WoT says above). 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by peteb

[Stofferson]

I like my trousers thoroughly flapped.

 

I guess it all comes down to personal choice, I love the feel of the power behind me, I play hard rock, and my bass is quite prominent, I play better and feel better when I can feel/hear myself well with my amp and cab.

For me, I'm happy with that and that's from pub gigs to larger gigs / academies etc. Give me a stack of 10's!

 

[peteb]

40 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

For me the bass amp and cabs were simply a means of getting the bass guitar to a volume suitable for the band I was playing in. Having an amp or cabs with "a sound" was never a priority when choosing what to buy and in many cases could be serious disadvantage if it wasn't the sound I was after.

 

But you do have to appreciate that a lot (most?) of players take a different approach. Personally, I rarely use effects and I've always gone for a sound that, although not extreme in any way, is identifiable as being "my sound". While I'm not precious about it, amps and cabs are part of that. 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by peteb

[BigRedX]

26 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

But you do have to appreciate that a lot (most?) of players take a different approach. Personally, I rarely use effects and I've always gone for a sound that, although not extreme in any way, is identifiable as being "my sound". While I'm not precious about it, amps and cabs are part of that. 

 

The Helix (and the multi-effects I had before that) are simply a means to a consistent end. Most of the time it was about presenting the bass sound I wanted to the amplification system with the minimum of fuss. I had previously spent almost a decade playing synths where the amplification used was simply about getting them to sound loud and any additional "character" imposed by it was seen as a bad thing.

 

And before that my "bass amp" was a 10 watt guitar practice amp which was loud enough for rehearsals (this was a band with a drum machine and percussionist rather than a conventional drummer and drum kit) and live I used whatever amp the headlining band had brought with them.

 

Besides all amps have EQ on them and by the time you're in the "band mix" you'll be able to find something that gives you a perfectly useable sound.

[Lozz196]

I think what’s great about this thread is there’s no one solution, many different approaches which suit the individuals. I know if I could guarantee a good monitor mix (and learn to like bass in monitors) I could easily gig without an amp/speakers if doing gigs like I did in my last band. I did have to do just that on a couple where the provided rig had just had enough and gave up, got through them fine, tho do prefer just guitar & vox in monitors.