Amps? For your enjoyment or audience?

[Steve Browning]

Less great are the sweeping generalisations.

 

Whatever anyone's answer, every one is valid and everyone uses the gear they want to. Even on big stages, I have always liked moving to that spot where your bass rig just hits you in the chest, every once in a while.

[lemmywinks]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

 

I suppose that I could, but why would I want to? If I play pubs then I will still need an amp for the whole room and when I do bigger gigs then I can take a relatively lightweight rig and benefit from having a consistent sound onstage (as WoT says above). 

 

 

A decent FRFR will easily do the whole room and then some, is one self contained box and a one hand carry. It will also be incredibly consistent not just with on stage sound but will be closer to FoH if you're going through the PA as well whereas your amp will probably sound quite different to what the audience hears.

 

Towards the end of my amp using days I had tilt back cabs which I used in a wedge format on most gigs anyway, YMMV of course but for me it was a logical progression.

[bassman7755]

5 hours ago, thodrik said:

I like to have an amp and cab so that I can at least be sure that I will be able to hear myself. 

 

You can also do that providing your own IEM feed via a small mixer with inputs for your own di/line and house mix and/or an ambient mike. It may sound like a faff but I keep it all packed away pre-wired. 

[thodrik]

33 minutes ago, bassman7755 said:

 

You can also do that providing your own IEM feed via a small mixer with inputs for your own di/line and house mix and/or an ambient mike. It may sound like a faff but I keep it all packed away pre-wired. 

True. 

For my own current situation (live band, heavy rock loud drummer, two guitarists with valve amps, often minimal on stage monitoring) having an amp and cab (or just a combo) on stage at least gives me a chance of enabling the rest of the band on stage to hear what I am playing even if the onstage monitoring is non-existent and/or useless. 

I generally set up according to the rest of band. If the rest of the band want to go the IEM route then I would be up for it. If the guitarist wants to use an old 100 watt Marshall valve amp (hopefully with an attenuator) then I am game for that too. After the last 18 months of the pandemic I am pretty much game for anything!

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by thodrik

[fretmeister]

15 hours ago, BigRedX said:

I ditched my amp and cabs completely for the very reasons described by the OP.

 

I used to own a very nice (and very expensive) big rig that looked very impressive, but as the OP has discovered when all the gigs you do the bass goes through the PA it was starting to look a bit redundant. On the big stages as soon as I stepped away from being directly in front of my rig I could hear more or "me" in the fold back than I could from my cabs and on the smaller stages I was being asked to turn it down so as not to interfere with the FoH mix, that even stood directly in front of it the bass being supplied for the guitarist in his wedge on the other side of the stage was louder!

 

At the same time I'd been following the various FRFR threads on here and they were making a lot more sense to me, so I sold everything and bought a Line6 Helix Floor and an RCF 745 powered cab. As I also play Bass VI in another band having a "neutral" sounding amp and cab system was a lot more versatile and saved having to carry a massive and complex rig that could cope with both "guitar" and "bass" sounds. And after selling all my conventional amplification I actually came away with a small profit!

 

I don't miss the old big rig in the slightest. For the big gigs (Nottingham Rescue Rooms, Leeds O2 etc.) I do I don't even bother taking the RCF cab. I just give the PA a DI from the Helix and get a monitor mix that is balanced all the way across the stage. For the one gig I've done since changing where the PA was strictly vocals only the RCF was more than adequate for projecting the bass sound into the audience. For all the other in-between gigs I usually tuck the cab out of the way (the size and shape also lets me fit it in spaces where there would be no room for a conventional bass rig) and often have it firing across the stage so the rest of the band can hear me without it disturbing the FoH mix.

 

All the sound shaping is done with the Helix and therefore what the audience hears is exactly what I hear on stage only much louder and with no nasty frequencies ready to spill into the drum and vocal mics and ruin the sound.

 

It makes you think that the only bassists really benefiting from expensive boutique bass rigs are those who just play pub gigs where the bass doesn't go through the PA and their rig is entirely responsible for the bass sound that the audience hears.

 

 

This.

 

I have a trad rig because I play in a band that doesn't have a PA at all.

 

If I went back to the rock band thing my Helix would be in the PA / monitors.

[peteb]

 

I would think that most bass players who play a variety of gigs will still want to keep a decent amp that they can use if needed. Certainly, I am expected to turn up with an amp / rig for all the gigs that I do and I can’t see that changing while I’m still active.

 

Funnily enough, the only time that I thought that I might need to get an IEM system was when I was asked to join a band by a BL who had used them a lot in the past. However, a five minute discussion at the first rehearsal showed that the musos he had assembled for the new band all wanted to use amps and he was happy to go along with that (although he used IEMs for his own personal monitoring).

 

[bassman7755]

26 minutes ago, thodrik said:

True. 

For my own current situation (live band, heavy rock loud drummer, two guitarists with valve amps, often minimal on stage monitoring) having an amp and cab (or just a combo) on stage at least gives me a chance of enabling the rest of the band on stage to hear what I am playing even if the onstage monitoring is non-existent and/or useless. 

 

I still use my amp/cab on stage for that same reason (among others) , its just that I dont hear it (much) as I'm using my own IEM feed.

[Dan Dare]

18 hours ago, Jamescullum said:

Every gig I do the bass is going through the PA system so in theory the amp is there only for my listening pleasure. So in reality any amp will do. 

 

Surely if the amp is there mainly for the player's pleasure, then any old amp won't do, unless you don't care what you sound like. The FOH engineer takes care of what the audience hears, so if you can afford it, get the amp that makes the noises you like. The value of that for me is that I feel I play better if I'm happy. Even if I don't, I enjoy the experience more, so I wouldn't say it's purely vanity.

[Dan Dare]

18 hours ago, Jamescullum said:

Every gig I do the bass is going through the PA system so in theory the amp is there only for my listening pleasure. So in reality any amp will do. 

 

Surely if the amp is there mainly for the player's pleasure, then any old amp won't do, unless you don't care what you sound like. The FOH engineer takes care of what the audience hears, so if you can afford it, get the amp that makes the noises you like. The value of that for me is that I feel I play better if I'm happy. Even if I don't, I enjoy the experience more, so I wouldn't say it's purely vanity.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 15, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Lozz196]

4 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

Less great are the sweeping generalisations.

 

Whatever anyone's answer, every one is valid and everyone uses the gear they want to. Even on big stages, I have always liked moving to that spot where your bass rig just hits you in the chest, every once in a while.

There’s nothing quite like it Steve, that one spot where you fear the “Back to The Future” moment may just occur.

 

Certainly when I’ve played festivals although I could easily have done it with just monitors having that 810 behind me was very reassuring. 

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

 

I would think that most bass players who play a variety of gigs will still want to keep a decent amp that they can use if needed. Certainly, I am expected to turn up with an amp / rig for all the gigs that I do and I can’t see that changing while I’m still active.

 

This.

 

I play in several bands and do even more deps, so creating the same audio environment on every stage is a must. I have a rig that can be heard at the back of most rooms and can be DI'ed on larger and outdoor gigs if necessary. IEM's is a level of technology that, in my bass world, is still at the solution looking for a problem stage.

[BigRedX]

The various discussions amount bass rigs that we have had on Basschat have definitely opened me up ideas I might have never considered otherwise. The ditching of the traditional rig being one of them. 3 or 4 years ago I would have never considered playing without my big impressive looking rig behind me, but times and bands change, and I can see my current solution to be perfectly adequate for any band I'm likely to be playing with in the foreseeable future. The only reason I could currently see for getting a traditional bass amp and cab(s) would be if I went back to playing covers in pubs, and given my previous experiences of that scene it's not something I would consider from either a personal or music PoV.

 

I get what people are saying about having a good sound on stage, and while it is something to strive towards, I think a lot of the time we get over-precious about the on-stage sound and we might be better off putting on a show for the audience. I certainly used to one of those people who would get wound up and sulk if it didn't sound "right" when playing and as a result I could be rather unpleasant to be be with at gigs. I've since come to the conclusion that so long as I can hear that I'm in time and in tune with the rest of the band, that will do for the on-stage sound and instead I'll concentrate on playing and putting on a show for the audience (and I would like to think that I am a nicer person to be in a band with as a result). They after all are the reason why we do this. Also I've never understood the quest for "trouser flapping bass volume". When the band and most of the audience these days is wearing ear plugs it kind of defeats the object, and besides if the songs your are playing are up to scratch then they shouldn't need to be played loud to sound good. Also I don't think I've worn trousers with enough spare material to flap since to late 70s!

[Downunderwonder]

Two times I have been fully at the mercy of stage monitors. Both flusterclucks. Gimme a bass amp if I can't have my own!

[Bunion]

I don’t think having a is just about the sound either, a show has a visual impact on the audience too. 
Yes if a band sounds crap they sound crap but presentation is a big part of the whole show. 
Going to a gig and seeing the equipment set up before the band comes on helps to set the mood..

[Muzz]

 

😁

[BigRedX]

^^ Exactly.

 

TBH for the gigs that my bands do the fact that I don't have a conventional bass rig has never been an issue from an image PoV.

 

For Hurtsfall the minimalist stage setup we have goes well with the overall image of the band and amps and speakers would distract form this.

 

For In Isolation, a lot of the time we are supporting bands with traditional backline. I simply set up in front of the headliner's bass rig and no-one in the audience is any wiser. When we are the headlining band I doubt that anyone really notices that we are seemingly missing the bass amp and cab(s). The only issue we have is with support bands, to whom we have to explain the situation and tell them that their bassist is welcome to use my rig, but if they want a traditional bass set up they will need to bring their own. Thus far we've had roughly 50% take up on the offer to use my rig, and all those who have done so have been impressed with the sound and on-stage volume.

 

Edit: here I am with In Isolation not using the bass amp behind me...

Edited October 7, 2021 by BigRedX

[fretmeister]

I've just had a look at the specs of the RCF 745A

 

Impressive! Only 1kg heavier than my Barefaced Super Twin and of course it has the power amp built in too.

 

I've been thinking a little about getting the HX stomp as an easy pedal board set up and the RCF looks very good for that.

My Helix is a rack version and it's a permanent part of my home studio so I cannot be arsed to pull that apart to take it anywhere.

[BigRedX]

4 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I've just had a look at the specs of the RCF 745A

 

Impressive! Only 1kg heavier than my Barefaced Super Twin and of course it has the power amp built in too.

 

I've been thinking a little about getting the HX stomp as an easy pedal board set up and the RCF looks very good for that.

My Helix is a rack version and it's a permanent part of my home studio so I cannot be arsed to pull that apart to take it anywhere.

 

If you do decide to go the FRFR route, unless you are using it as your audio interface, I'd replace the Helix in the studio with the plug-in version next time Line6 do a special offer, so you can make the hardware part of your live rig.

[fretmeister]

4 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

If you do decide to go the FRFR route, unless you are using it as your audio interface, I'd replace the Helix in the studio with the plug-in version next time Line6 do a special offer, so you can make the hardware part of your live rig.

 

The Helix is my interface and soundcard. It's also my home practice rig with a pair of Yamaha HS7.

 

I do have Native as well but I like the rack and the foot controller for 'live' tracking.

[Jack]

On 06/10/2021 at 10:51, lemmywinks said:

 

Even then you could just use an FRFR cab as conventional backline and it would obliterate pretty much every similarly sized bass amp on the market...

Now, now, let's not get carried away. Plenty of amazing, really small solutions in all sorts of form factors these days. I haven't had a gig that's made me miss my Barefaced rigs yet, but I have a feeling that day will come at some of the big outdoor events next summer.

[lemmywinks]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

Now, now, let's not get carried away. Plenty of amazing, really small solutions in all sorts of form factors these days. I haven't had a gig that's made me miss my Barefaced rigs yet, but I have a feeling that day will come at some of the big outdoor events next summer.

 

I don't think it's getting carried away at all, there's no magic sauce involved with bass amps and dedicated bass brands will be well behind the curve when it comes to integrating everything into one box. Is there a 1x15 bass combo that could outdo an RCF 745 for example? The last 1x15 I enjoyed using was a Markbass Jeff Berlin and I would take one of our old RCF 725a cabs over it every day of the week.

 

As I said I love bass amps and still spend more time perving over them than any other bit of kit. There's no desire to use them live over anything else though, especially if I can cut down on load in and setup time.

[javi_bassist]

I've been an amp geek since I started playing bass. Even more excited about amps than basses. I tried a lot of amps and now, it makes me a little sad, but I leave it at home if I can (99% of the time actually). I switched to a Line 6 HX Stomp, some pedals and IEM. If I can't use IEM, I have monitors from FOH. Being able to go to play by train or bus is great. 

 

I still have a couple of amps, but they rarely leave my house.

 

However, playing with what you like I think it makes play better (or more comfortable at least). 99% of the audience won't notice if you're using Fender, Yamaha, Ashdown, Orange, Ampeg... But they will notice if you are enjoying the gig.

[TheGreek]

Audience?? What do they know!!

 

😂😂

[barrycreed]

@javi_bassistdo you use a FRFR speaker as your "amp" as well? What if the venue doesn't have monitors?