Do we as bass players really need MFX

[Al Krow]

A few BC'ers who we know to be successful, very capable, regularly gigging and having a lot of fun, with decades of experience under their belt, have already 'fessed on this thread to not using any pedals (yup not a.... anywhere in sight! 😁). So when you say:

 

47 minutes ago, rushbo said:

... you might be the only person in the room that hears the difference. 

 ...that for me neatly sums up 90% of what we angst about on BC on so many gear related matters!! Once we have a "good enough" rig & bass, being a better bass player and a better sounding bass player to our audiences is then no longer about the gear but how well we play it i.e. it really is then "all in the fingers".

 

But having said that, if it just gives you, the bass player, and no one else pleasure in hearing that difference, then why not?

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, SumOne said:

I seems to remember Lemmy saying he didn't need pedals, he did however need quite a lot of very big and expensive equipment to get his sound (and things like guitar techs, engineers with compressors and EQ etc).

 

Well, noone needs pedals if they have a group of people processing the sound somewhere else. But for the rest of us...

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, SumOne said:

I seems to remember Lemmy saying he didn't need pedals, he did however need quite a lot of very big and expensive equipment to get his sound (and things like guitar techs, engineers with compressors and EQ etc).

 

Well, noone needs pedals if they have a group of people processing the sound somewhere else. But for the rest of us...

[SumOne]

1 minute ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Well, noone needs pedals if they have a group of people processing the sound somewhere else. But for the rest of us...

 

I think that's why people that play at a high level often say they don't need pedals - they play one genre and can get the tones they want by technique and getting the right Bass (and strings, pickups etc) and Amp and Cabs and possibly Engineers with compressors and EQ etc. so they don't need distortion pedals and preamp pedals and IR loaders (or Multi FX) etc. but that's just because other equipment is doing those jobs. If Lemmy was asked how he got his tone and answered 'it's all in the fingers, I don't need pedals' it'd be a bit of a cheat to imply it's all down to technique, pedals might not be needed but some other bulky and expensive equipment is.  

[Muzz]

Like BRX, my Stomp is now 'my sound in a box' (and yeah, that includes amp/cab sims, compression, etc) which is invaluable for the different varieties of gigs I do, from tiny pubs using minimal gear to big stages with supplied backline. All I do is amplify it differently. I also use it for a pretty wide range of sounds I need in the covers band (and yeah, Muse is part of that), and also for pitch shifting (I have several banks of sounds, each one shifted down, from E to Eb to D to Db to C).

 

So the short answer is, for me, yep.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 15, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Jus Lukin said:

This is another subject where there is no value in trying to establish arbitrary rights or wrongs; there are just ways of making sound.

I've loved my various analogue boards, I use an HX Stomp, and I still use my Zoom MS60-B. Sometimes that little Zoom gives me a tuner, HPF, compressor, amp/cab sim and switchable overdrive in the space of one boss pedal. Sometimes I'm in the mood (and have the time and space) to bring a valve rig with a little string of pedals. Neither is fully better or fully worse, and both sound great.
There are no morals, and no 'saints' whose pedal habits we can follow to be sure we are allowed into sonic heaven when we die. As I think I said on another thread, we live in a time of many great sounding options- choosing what suits us and learning how best to use it is useful. Dividing up, and picking sides isn't.

Great post. 

The definitive best way to get the best tone out of me is to replace me with a pro. 
If you’re not going to do that just bodge it in the way that sounds best to you. 

[Doddy]

I look at it this way- guitar players and keyboard players are expected to use effects to shape their tones, so why shouldn't bass players be expected to do the same?

I used a multi effects for a couple of years when I couldn't really fly with a bunch of pedals. I like the practicality of carrying one unit, but I find individual pedals easier to use and I generally prefer how they sound. 

[uk_lefty]

I go through phases with it. I had all separate pedals but couldn't quite get what I wanted and had to move pedals on a lot, especially those that caused unwanted noise. I reluctantly went for a multi and realised that I spent more time faffing about with trying to create sounds, unsuccessfully, and ended up just using two or three essentially EQ based effects. I have now ended up with a Helix Stomp. I do hanker for the simplicity of a good quality EQ and DI pedal that I could dot a few other choice effects around but when I consider what I actually use in the Helix I'd be spending a LOT to go for separates and I'd lose a lot of functionality that I quite like. For example, one of my 80s fretless sound patches has two Chorus blocks next to each other. I'm trying out for a new band where I will need distortion/ OD, fuzz and some other wizardry so the Helix is staying, I've even got my way pedal involved in a couple of different ways too. But on the other hand, you just can't beat a good solid bass tone. I'm lucky enough to have two good quality gigging amps, so sometimes just a bass, a cable and an amp is enough. In my old band I rarely used effects beyond compression and EQ based stuff so I would often practice and gig with no effects in the chain at all and never felt I was missing anything.

 

Suppose it all depends on what you need for the situation you're in. I'm not a fan of distorted bass tone for me and my playing but I know a lot of people here love "dirt" and it's there in a lot of music I listen to. I'm more of a light drive person myself but that's just my playing. Most wouldn't entertain my reverb and double chorus pedal fretless patches but this is part of what makes us all so different and why we can't yet be replaced by software.

[BassAdder60]

Some good points raised 

 

For me having a good bass tone from my amp / bass is my main objective and anything else is an extra 

 

Decided to stop using the onboard compressor on my RM800 head and the difference in sound clarity was noticeable!

 

So that’s one less effect I’m using !

 

I do think it would be mostly an expensive tuner for me and send me on an endless chase of tone nirvana !

 

Bass, fingers, lead, amp, cab, seems to work for me and my band needs 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by BassAdder27

[uk_lefty]

33 minutes ago, BassAdder27 said:

Decided to stop using the onboard compressor on my RM800 head and the difference in sound clarity was noticeable!

I sometimes use a two button footswitch with my RM500 for the drive and sub, it can be quite usable. I quite like the compressor on mine though, it's always on at 12 o clock.

[Al Krow]

23 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

I sometimes use a two button footswitch with my RM500 for the drive and sub, it can be quite usable. I quite like the compressor on mine though, it's always on at 12 o clock.

Interesting diversion on the RMs (apologies to the OP). Are the RMs quite mid scooped in terms of core tone? I found myself playing through an RM500 and an Ashdown 4x10 at rehearsal last week and my bass sounded really good solo but disappeared in the mix, and I ended up boosting the lower and upper mids considerably on the amp to try and compensate. 

[uk_lefty]

50 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Interesting diversion on the RMs (apologies to the OP). Are the RMs quite mid scooped in terms of core tone? I found myself playing through an RM500 and an Ashdown 4x10 at rehearsal last week and my bass sounded really good solo but disappeared in the mix, and I ended up boosting the lower and upper mids considerably on the amp to try and compensate. 

Never been a problem for me but I've owned mine years

[Lozz196]

54 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Interesting diversion on the RMs (apologies to the OP). Are the RMs quite mid scooped in terms of core tone? I found myself playing through an RM500 and an Ashdown 4x10 at rehearsal last week and my bass sounded really good solo but disappeared in the mix, and I ended up boosting the lower and upper mids considerably on the amp to try and compensate. 

If the Shape was selected then yes, it scoops the sound, I’ve found this works nicely with a Precision though I do have to back off on lows and boost upper mids & highs.

[Lozz196]

Back on topic for me, I tried out my newly acquired Zoom MS60B last night and am very impressed for a multi-FX unit. Ok I only used compression, and although I’d set one up I vetoed that in respect of the 160 Comp, their simulation of the much respected DB160A. Aside from bringing the level down I kept at stock settings and it was excellent.
Given I only bought it for tuner & compression safe to say I’m very pleased. I’m sure there are pedal compressors that to a trained ear are better but this one just worked for me. I don’t understand compression enough to try and alter/improve the settings, which for me are just spot on.

[Al Krow]

3 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

If the Shape was selected then yes, it scoops the sound, I’ve found this works nicely with a Precision though I do have to back off on lows and boost upper mids & highs.

Ah that would seem to explain it - I thought I had switched "off" all the "extras" but I'd probably missed that one! Ah well, I'll try to remember that for next time I'm in a Pirate rehearsal studio! [Note to self: I don't need to be in shape to play a RM500 😄]

[Al Krow]

38 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Back on topic for me, I tried out my newly acquired Zoom MS60B last night and am very impressed for a multi-FX unit. Ok I only used compression, and although I’d set one up I vetoed that in respect of the 160 Comp, their simulation of the much respected DB160A. Aside from bringing the level down I kept at stock settings and it was excellent.
Given I only bought it for tuner & compression safe to say I’m very pleased. I’m sure there are pedal compressors that to a trained ear are better but this one just worked for me. I don’t understand compression enough to try and alter/improve the settings, which for me are just spot on.

The MS-60B was the very first bass pedal I ever bought when they first came out in 2013! If you ever find that the interface feels a bit like a PITA then its cheaper more up to date sibling, the B1-4, is well worth checking out.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Al Krow

[Lozz196]

Cheers Baz, I might well get one of those, seems a lot easier to use than the MS60B, a bit like the old B3 in that respect. I’ll def be keeping the MS60B though, I’m just knocked out by how much I love that 160 compressor on it.

[peteb]

On 07/10/2021 at 15:02, Al Krow said:

 ...that for me neatly sums up 90% of what we angst about on BC on so many gear related matters!! Once we have a "good enough" rig & bass, being a better bass player and a better sounding bass player to our audiences is then no longer about the gear but how well we play it i.e. it really is then "all in the fingers".

 

 

That’s essentially true. Gear is just a part of how you sound, but it all starts with your fingers and if you haven’t got that bit right then it doesn’t matter what gear you have. I would always suggest that people get as good a bass as they can afford that feels right in their hands and is credible for the genres that they are going to play. As far as amps go, a lot of pros use gear like Hartke, nothing esoteric at all, because its reliable / does a job and the company give deals to pros like them.

 

Audiences only care what the band as a whole sounds like (and what instruments look like to an extent). They will compare your band to the one they saw a couple of weeks ago, as well as the major acts they’ve seen over the years. No one comes up to me after a gig to say they liked how I subtly used compression to get the bass to sit in the mix – to them if it sounds good then job done, they don’t care about why it sounds like that. If you’re not playing Muse covers, then its pretty safe to say they don’t care what effects you’re using, just if it sounds right. 

 

Having said that, Guy Pratt has just posted pictures of his current live pedalboard on Facebook. I counted 17 pedals and not a MFX among them…!

 

 

[uk_lefty]

9 hours ago, peteb said:

Having said that, Guy Pratt has just posted pictures of his current live pedalboard on Facebook. I counted 17 pedals and not a MFX among them…!

I saw that too. Quite a set up he has there, do you think he ever sticks them all on at once just to see what might happen....

 

Interestingly at a Marcus Miller clinic he was going through his pedals, digital delay, etc. and said he has a cheap zoom multi just to play about with!

[Al Krow]

12 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

I saw that too. Quite a set up he has there, do you think he ever sticks them all on at once just to see what might happen....

Interestingly at a Marcus Miller clinic he was going through his pedals, digital delay, etc. and said he has a cheap zoom multi just to play about with!

Hmmm...did someone say "cheap Zoom multi"? Not sure any 1 has recommended something like that B4 😁

[peteb]

2 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

Interestingly at a Marcus Miller clinic he was going through his pedals, digital delay, etc. and said he has a cheap zoom multi just to play about with!

 

I believe that Guy has something similar, which does a 'reasonable facsimile' of the effects that he uses, but not something that he is going to take out on the road. 

 

Anyway, gotta chip - got to get down to Swindon for a gig (from West Yorkshire)... 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by peteb

[mcnach]

On 06/10/2021 at 16:30, BassAdder27 said:

Curious thought with so many bass and guitar multi fx around and more coming .. but do we really need a ton of effects in say a gigging band scenario?

 

Im temped myself from anything as the basic Zoom B1 Four to the new Helix stuff and Boss etc 

 

From a gigging point I would definitely need the tuner, compression and a bit of drive ( very minimal ) 

 

Would we be better off buying a decent pedal tuner Boss TU2 and a drive or Preamp pedal ?

 

With bass sitting where it does in the band mix how much of the “ new effect tone” actually gets heard out front ?

 

Thoughts ?? 

 

It depends entirely on what you play. For some bands I am a plug in straight into amp and I'm done. For others I've got a bunch effects that I do use: overdrives (several), octave, envelope filters, compressor, wah, phaser... 

You're right, live you will not notice subtle differences in which case what's the point, so I don't care about that, but the different sounds I use are very noticeable live. 

 

FX can be fun, but if you don't feel the need then enjoy your situation  Get some FX when you need them. Having said that, I always found having some kind of multiFX can be very handy for those moments when you want to explore a bit. I used to have a Zoom B2, and later one of the tiny but versatile MS-60B. Cheap too. 

 

 

[such]

Then again, a few weeks ago... 

[Downunderwonder]

On 08/10/2021 at 06:09, Jus Lukin said:

This is another subject where there is no value in trying to establish arbitrary rights or wrongs; there are just ways of making sound.

I've loved my various analogue boards, I use an HX Stomp, and I still use my Zoom MS60-B. Sometimes that little Zoom gives me a tuner, HPF, compressor, amp/cab sim and switchable overdrive in the space of one boss pedal. Sometimes I'm in the mood (and have the time and space) to bring a valve rig with a little string of pedals. Neither is fully better or fully worse, and both sound great.
There are no morals, and no 'saints' whose pedal habits we can follow to be sure we are allowed into sonic heaven when we die. As I think I said on another thread, we live in a time of many great sounding options- choosing what suits us and learning how best to use it is useful. Dividing up, and picking sides isn't.

Amen.

 

An outdoor gig a couple or three years ago... secret sauce pedal into Trace SMX head. Local minstrel wanders up: ''righteous bass tone bro!".

 

A concert gig last year... different basses, same pedal, into completely different rig. Soundman: ''best bass tone ever dude''.

 

Rehearsal where my cab ended up behind the drummer for a change, so he got a good earful. ''Jeez that sounds good, why don't you make it sound like that all the time?". ''Same secret sauce as ever!''. He likes to park me on top of the piano at our other gig, to keep the pianist from straying too far from the beat, and misses out on bass tones.

 

On all the gigs I have dragged along the tubes for my enjoyment I never had anyone weigh in on the righteous tones nearly the same. More fool me? Nah.