Help! Looking for a decent music production course.

[xgsjx]

Hi peeps.

 

I've been frustrated by the overall sound of my tracks for way too long now.  I've come to the conclusion that it's me.  I bought the Bx SSL 4000G last week hoping that would make the difference, and it does sound different, but my songs still sound like I made them with free software.

Either my mixing & mastering skills are poop, my sound selection is poop, or I just don't know what I'm doing.  So I've decided I want to do a course or two on getting a good sound and a good mix.

 

It doesn't help that I'm partially deaf, but I can hear a huge difference in other people's work compared to my stuff.

 

I've seen a few courses on Udemy for around £20 which is really good value, but if they're only going to teach me what I already know, then they're a waste of money.  I've also saw a few on Skillshare, but that's a monthly subscription that I could do without.

I've spent a bit of time looking through Youtube, but not found anything on there.

 

So, any recommendations for a course that can help me get my songs release ready?

[Nail Soup]

I consider myself to be in the same boat. Would love to up my game in production - so watching with interest.

[Nail Soup]

Meanwhile you can get some good tips from basschat. Even the jokes thread:

[SH73]

I think a good mix and master depends on how good your hearing is, on motivation and listening gear. Good set of speakers, headphones etc. I've used Produce like a pro free you tube videos. Pretty good stuff there.

[xgsjx]

I’ve got a reasonable set of headphones & a decent set of monitors. I suppose it doesn’t help that I’m partially deaf & wear hearing aids, but even so, I can hear a massive difference between my stuff & other home producers’ stuff.

I’ve watched a few different folk on YouTube & there are a few really good ones, but I feel that an actual course from start to finish would be a benefit.  

[SH73]

14 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

I’ve got a reasonable set of headphones & a decent set of monitors. I suppose it doesn’t help that I’m partially deaf & wear hearing aids, but even so, I can hear a massive difference between my stuff & other home producers’ stuff.

I’ve watched a few different folk on YouTube & there are a few really good ones, but I feel that an actual course from start to finish would be a benefit.  

I've been recently using t racks mixing mastering software including master match, it's pretty good. Warren Huart has good deals on every now and then with other producers.

[justgone1]

I have watched and studies many youtube tutorials on this very subject, and found them very useful.

Depends I suppose on what DAW you are using as to what kind of specific help you can extract from these youtube videos?

For Cubase (which I now use "Cubase pro 11" - not cheap, but very good) I would look at these people on youtube:

"Chris Selim @ Mixdown Online" and "Dom Sigalas" Both very capable and very experienced producers who have a vast amount of tutorial videoa on their respective YOUTUBE channels. Also the "Steinberg Cubase" youtube channel itself has proved quite useful.

For Presonus Studio One there's a guy who's videos I have watched regularly, even though I don't use "StudioOne". This guys name is "Joe Gilder" @ "Home Studio Corner". In addition to a vast tutorial of free videos, he also has a free "radio ready" pdf you can download.

For Reaper DAW I would recommend "Adam" @ Hop Pole Studios. Again a very useful resource for Reaper software.

Warren Huart also has a great youtube channel for "Pro-Tools" users, but also useful If you don't use that particular software.

Cakewalk also has a number of tutorials from a Youtube channel called "creative sauce" This guy is very well experienced and knows the sofware very well.

Most of the afore mentioned have many courses you can purchase from them and study at your leisure. I haven't found i needed to do that, I have just continued (and still do..lol) to make mistakes then remedy them the best I can with the knowledge from a combination of these videos etc.

Similar to your good self, I too suffer from substantial hearing loss, but It's good to make mistakes and then see about fixing them, all part of the learning curve.

I am in no way an expert in music production, but i do get results that I like, and other people seem to enjoy. (unless they are just being kind..lol)

I do have a vast knowledge of Cubase software though, thanks to all my wasted hours and tutorials etc, and do understand the basics of getting it right at the source. ie: Recording levels and performance...bla bla bla, I'm sure you've heard that phrase many times.

Do feel free to "PM" me, I'm only too glad to assist in any way I am able.NP.

Hope you find this useful.

Jg 1

[lowdown]

3 hours ago, justgone1 said:

 

Depends I suppose on what DAW you are using as to what kind of specific help you can extract from these youtube videos?

For Cubase (which I now use "Cubase pro 11" - not cheap, but very good) I would look at these people on youtube:

"Chris Selim @ Mixdown Online" and "Dom Sigalas" Both very capable and very experienced producers who have a vast amount of tutorial videoa on their respective YOUTUBE channels. Also the "Steinberg Cubase" youtube channel itself has proved quite useful.

 

 

If you haven't already, another channel worth a look is the channel link below. He has a ton of Steinberg related videos along with some 3rd party vendor Synths etc...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1JLtclHvZbfZTfBoo-6uug/videos

 

 

The Groove Agent series of videos that he has is outstanding as well. 24 Videos in total.

 

 

 

[Nail Soup]

On 17/11/2021 at 12:56, justgone1 said:

For Presonus Studio One there's a guy who's videos I have watched regularly, even though I don't use "StudioOne". This guys name is "Joe Gilder" @ "Home Studio Corner". In addition to a vast tutorial of free videos, he also has a free "radio ready" pdf you can download.

I use Studio One , have seen a few of his videos and agree that he’s pretty good.

However the kind of stuff I need to improve is not DAW specific, more the general guidelines to follow to get a good sound etc. 

[xgsjx]

Same here, it’s not DAW specific.

I use Logic Pro X, but prior to that, it was Reaper & before that, Cubase. 

Always had the same issue…  sounds like a bunch of midi files. 

[justgone1]

Np. 

I recommended those peeps coz they know their stuff, not really because of the DAW they use tbh. 

I would gladly take a listen to anything you have produced thus far that you are unhappy with and give my feedback/opinion/tips. As long as you remember it's simply my opinion, and opinions vary greatly. 

Like I said, I am no great expert, but do like the tunes I have helped to write and produce so far, you may not. Feel free to check out my sound loud, there is a link in one of the forums, is it "share my music"? Feel free to pm me. I don't mind at all. 

Maybe list here of what instruments you record, and what interface/mics etc? 

Jg1

[justgone1]

Soundcloud I meant. 

Sodding predictive text! Lol

I'm "Justgone60" 

 

[xgsjx]

@justgone1Had a listen to your 2 tracks.  Although they're a different genre from what I'm doing, they sound very finished & release ready & a sound that I would be very happy with too.

 

Here's my most current work.  It still needs vocals & the Mrs will likely sing for me (I really cannot sing), but she's full of the cold, so it'll not be soon.

 

My DAW is Logic Pro X.  I have a NI Komplete Audio 6 interface, a pair of Kali LP6 monitors & Superlux HD668b headphones.  It all runs on a 2015 iMac.

The bass is me on my Ibby, but everything else is provided by either Native Instruments Komplete or Roli Equator 2.

I've not paid much for any effects or processing tools.  Logic has it's own built in FX, I bought the BX SSL4000G & everything else I got for free.
NI Komplete has Guitar Rig as well as some other bundled fx, but I've only touched on them & hardly used them.

 

Here's all that's used in this track...

Organ swell - NI Soul Sessions: Ch EQ 192hx Hi Pass, BX SSL4000G, Lindell 7X-500 Compression

 

Staccato pad - Equator 2: BX SSL4000G, Logic Chorus

 

Arp - Equator 2: Ch EQ 192hx Hi Pass, BX SSL4000G, Produce RnB Amp LEQS (for it’s compressor)

 

Arp Pluck - NI Massive: BX SSL4000G, Lindell 7X-500 Compression

 

Bass - Ibanez SR1000e: Logic Bass Amp (Tweaked version of “70’s Solid” preset), BX SSL4000G, Ch EQ 47hz Hi Pass, a slight boost at 348 & 2320 hz, & small cuts at 210, 1k &1720K hz, Xfer OTT compression

 

Synth bass - NI 25: BX SSL4000G

 

Guitar - NI Sunburst Deluxe: Ch EQ 192hx Hi Pass, Logic Tremolo (Set to 1/4 notes), NI Guitar Rig (using the FG Auto Wah Clout preset), Logic Stereo spread, NI Flair (using the Wide guitar preset), BX SSL4000G

 

 

Drums are mostly NI with the exception of the clap and the transient kick blip, both Logic.  All the drums go to a buss with BX SSL4000G & Ozone 9 Elements.

 

Main out: Linear EQ set to side & hi pass 130hz, Ozone 9 elements using the Harshness Reduction preset & slightly tweaked, BX Masterdesk Classic, Multimeter

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by xgsjx

[justgone1]

Hi. 

First impressions: Doesn't sound too far away from a decent production to me tbh. 

Snare hits are a little robotic, unless that's the genre? I would deffo play around with the Snare in your midi editor (velocities etc) try creating a reverb/delay BUS/channel so you can feed the Snare into it for a gated reverb effect, most DAWS will have that facility. Don't overdo it tho. 

Also have a play around with panning, sling a synth left, and another to the right. I'm not a big fan of stereo widening plugins. 

But otherwise I do like the tune. 

Maybe have a look on YouTube for Logic Pro X tips n tricks,, for "bussing" "panning" etc. 

There is a trick I use in Cubase where I BUS say, guitars/synths to an fx channel, and I will "pan"one synth left but its reverb I will pan right, and opposite way round for the other. Great trick IMO. 

What do you reckon? 

[justgone1]

Oh, in addition, I would say that you have everything you need already with your DAW and vst's n plugins. Spending loads money rarely helps. So I am told. 😊

[xgsjx]

Cheers.  I do try to group instruments & have busses set up.  I have sends for reverb, delay etc & then put all the drums to a drum bus to glue them all together, but I'll try playing about with the snare like you say, changing velocity & try a gated reverb on it too.

 

I might be a bit shy with some of the panning.  So I'll play about with that too.

 

But to me, the overall sound isn't coherent like a released song is.  It's working out how to get that sound.

 

[justgone1]

Another tip is to try and study/listen to pro releases etc that are of a similar genre, and see if they have panned stuff around etc. A lot to go through there tbh. IMHO. 

Also adding a limiter to your stereo BUS after a little gentle compression and eq can make a difference. Also try working on Kik and bass relationship, maybe a sidechain would help with that? 

 

[justgone1]

And.........

I really wouldn't beat yourself up too much worrying what other people think of your music/production etc. 

What I heard was very good tbh. 

I would tinker with a few different synths, maybe a bit of guitar here and there? 

But panning can make a mix stand out IMO. 

[Mcgiver69]

On 18/11/2021 at 21:15, Nail Soup said:

I use Studio One , have seen a few of his videos and agree that he’s pretty good.

However the kind of stuff I need to improve is not DAW specific, more the general guidelines to follow to get a good sound etc. 

 

I would recommend to join something like the Produce Like a Pro academy, in there they have tons of courses and master classes that show you how to mix and master your tracks. There's even a couple of how to produce your music (recording process). 

 

Having said all that you have to remember that after all like bass playing you'll only improve with practice, the more you mix and produce then better you'll get and like you just discovered no amount of plugins will change that fact. So learn as much as you can and practice, practice, practice. You're tracks will improve in time.

 

Best regards,

[justgone1]

I concur with Mcgiver69. 

Solid advice. 

[sammybee]

Hope you don't mind me commenting. I think it sounded great overall. I recon subscribing to any of those courses isn't going to teach you anything you probably don't know (or teach you very little).

 

One thing that did jump out at me (the snare level / sound mentioned above also), was that the drums and synths felt very tightly quantised (like you had quantise turned to 1/16 for everything) . I think the song would be lot better if it was just a touch looser and the the keys/drums would feel just that bit more human. But overall it's a solid effort & I'd love to hear more. Really enjoyed your bass part too!

[Velarian]

I’ve been following this thread with interest and whilst I don’t have any practical experience to offer, your frustration about how the track sounds caused me to ponder just how something like this could be improved. I agree with @justgone1that what you have produced is vey good indeed, I certainly couldn’t hope to achieve anything close. However, I get that there is a certain “je ne sais quoi” and it’s difficult to put your finger on what could be changed.

 

@sammybee is right about making it a bit looser and more human and this reminded me of an interview with the late, great Lyle Mays talking about recording the title track for the “As Falls Wichita…” album with Pat Metheny which is largely synth based; he said “there was just something missing, it sounded dead. Synths will do that since there’s no air being moved. There’s no rush. There’s no aspect of the environment that’s in the sound.” They solved the problem by adding real sounds including percussion played by a real percussionist which provided an almost hypnotic counterpoint, along with some voices.

 

You mentioned that the example track still needs vocals, so, as a start, that may make huge difference and provide more context for the track.

 

I’d love to hear what else you might be able to do with this. 

[lowdown]

@xgsjx

 

I don't know if you are familiar with the VI Control forum? A lot of very good people there with many working in film and TV.

As far as composing/arranging and sound design goes, is one of the best forums out there.

https://vi-control.net/portal/

 

Plenty of people there who really know there production stuff as well, so it's worth a visit to do some searching on the various courses that are about.

Maybe start a thread asking for what you are after, the folks over there are usually very helpful.

https://vi-control.net/community/forums/mixing-post-production-and-effects.64/

 

 

 

 

[Molelaner]

Quote

I've seen a few courses on Udemy for around £20 which is really good value, but if they're only going to teach me what I already know, then they're a waste of money.  I've also saw a few on Skillshare, but that's a monthly subscription that I could do without.

 

Okay, both these courses teach mostly the basics, so I doubt you're gonna get smth new from them. Definitely not a good way to spend your money and time. Still, I don't know what you already know, but you always can contact a man responsible for a course and ask him. Usually the flow of the specific course is written in the description. But again, it also depends on the type of music you wanna produce.  I've personally started with DeadMau5 courses for electronic music which seemed very difficult for me. Definitely not for newbies but I managed to learn everything, produce some cool soundtracks, and even found some pr artist services that agreed to promote my soundtracks. So, finding a good course can be very beneficial for you, be careful with choosing.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Molelaner