12 fret action on p bass

[Geek99]

Think I’m going to set relief to 0.4, set action I want and then put relief back  on bit by bit

Edited October 14, 2021 by Geek99

[ubit]

I must be the only one who doesn't give a hoot about measurements. I do it by feel. Take it down until I get fret buzz then take it back up. Play hard and hear if I get clicking and if so back it off a bit more.

 

I don't have a clue what height in mm or thou or gnats ball hairs it is!

[Geek99]

Too much relief means forward bow so (barring tall fret issues) I should get no buzz, I think 

so what I’m doing is actually the opposite of hell zero’s method 

[Reggaebass]

37 minutes ago, ubit said:

gnats ball hairs i

Gnats ball hairs are 0.000001 , which are very useful for fine tuning 😁

[lonestar]

I only have imperial feeler gauges so I set 10-12 thou relief at 7th fret and 2/32in on the G,fretted at the first fret, and 3/32in on the E or B on my five string. Pretty much fender or Sadowsky specs I think. Nut height is 3 thou at first fret with string fretted on the third.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

It's interesting to think about what relief (concave) does.

 

For a given amount of action at the twelfth fret, relief makes minimal impact on the frets near the 12th fret.

 

As you move along the neck towards the nut, the action reduces more slowly than with a flat neck. This reduces buzzing on the lower notes and compensates for the longer the causing greater excursion (the amount the string moves back and forth).

 

As you move beyond the twelfth fret, the action reduces more rapidly than with a flat fretboard. However, the extra stiffness around the neck joint makes this a less significant amount and the rapidly reducing excursion of the strings means this shouldn't be a big issue.

 

Buzzing occurs when either the next fret (or rarely the next but one) is high, or a fret is low. The differences are often on the scale of a thousandth of an inch or even less.

 

Assuming that the frets are  decently levelled, buzzing on the higher notes usually means that there is too much neck relief (or there's a 'ski jump' as mentioned earlier). This is particularly likely if buzzing happens in multiple places.

 

Similarly, buzzing on low notes (not open strings, which is a poorly cut nut) means too little or convex neck relief.

 

One way of getting very low action is to set up the bass, then add a little more truss rod tension which will reduce the action by a 'smidgin' but barely affect the string angles on the highest frets. If this does cause a buzz on low notes, put the relief back on. In most cases it will be OK or a little buzz close higher than the 12th fret. In this case you may need to slightly raise one or two saddles, but should still end up with lower action than before.

 

 

[ubit]

42 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Gnats ball hairs are 0.000001 , which are very useful for fine tuning 😁

 

 

Years ago for a laugh at work a bunch of us got the digital micrometer and measured our ball hairs. It was amazing the difference in some!

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, ubit said:

I must be the only one who doesn't give a hoot about measurements. I do it by feel. Take it down until I get fret buzz then take it back up. Play hard and hear if I get clicking and if so back it off a bit more.

 

I don't have a clue what height in mm or thou or gnats ball hairs it is!

Being an engineer i tend to measure things but i have adjusted basses to a point i'm happy with and then i just have to measure it. (its sad but i have no choice 😂)

With regards the neck relief my quick way of setting it is when changing the strings i look down the neck without strings and adjust neck to be perfectly straight. When strings are added it draws the neck slightly concave. That would be my approx guide and from there i would then tweak it till i'm happy.................and then measure it cause i'm a sad auld git 

On hindsight i seem to have different methods of going about it probably dependant on how much time i have available to fine tweak things.

 

Dave

[dmccombe7]

17 minutes ago, ubit said:

 

 

Years ago for a laugh at work a bunch of us got the digital micrometer and measured our ball hairs. It was amazing the difference in some!

'm hoping you measured your own 

[dmccombe7]

47 minutes ago, lonestar said:

Nut height is 3 thou at first fret with string fretted on the third.

 

That's a measurement i never check or adjust as i've never known what is correct. My Sandberg has a zero fret so i'm guessing a nut could be adjusted down to approx a fret height. 

Would that be right enough. ?

Dave

[ubit]

16 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

With regards the neck relief my quick way of setting it is when changing the strings i look down the neck without strings and adjust neck to be perfectly straight. When strings are added it draws the neck slightly concave. That would be my approx guide and from there i would then tweak it

 

 

I'm the same with the neck. No fancy tools for neck just hold the guitar and look down the neck to see if it needs a tweak. Ive never had a fear of turning truss rods, Maybe it's because of my mechanical background but I know to turn in increments and that it needs time to settle. Some folks keep turning because they don't see instant results.

[lonestar]

43 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

That's a measurement i never check or adjust as i've never known what is correct. My Sandberg has a zero fret so i'm guessing a nut could be adjusted down to approx a fret height. 

Would that be right enough. ?

Dave

I think with zero frets, an idea I wish was used more often, the nut height is set for you. My Sadowsky has an “adjust a nut”,  ie two little screws to adjust the height. Otherwise it’s nut files and a feeler gauge.

[ubit]

51 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

'm hoping you measured your own 

 

 

They were plucked and then presented for measurement. Definitely not done in situ.

[nilebodgers]

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

Being an engineer i tend to measure things but i have adjusted basses to a point i'm happy with and then i just have to measure it. (its sad but i have no choice 😂)

With regards the neck relief my quick way of setting it is when changing the strings i look down the neck without strings and adjust neck to be perfectly straight. When strings are added it draws the neck slightly concave. That would be my approx guide and from there i would then tweak it till i'm happy.................and then measure it cause i'm a sad auld git 

On hindsight i seem to have different methods of going about it probably dependant on how much time i have available to fine tweak things.

 

Dave

(retired) Engineer here too - I have to measure it, it's a compulsion.

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, ubit said:

 

 

Years ago for a laugh at work a bunch of us got the digital micrometer and measured our ball hairs. It was amazing the difference in some!

 

You may also have been measuring the level of expertise in using a micrometer, if each person did their own...

[Stub Mandrel]

54 minutes ago, ubit said:

 

 

They were plucked and then presented for measurement. Definitely not done in situ.

 

So you didn't measure nut height at the same time?

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

That's a measurement i never check or adjust as i've never known what is correct. My Sandberg has a zero fret so i'm guessing a nut could be adjusted down to approx a fret height. 

Would that be right enough. ?

Dave

 

A zero fret is typically set a little higher than normal frets. I think this is because with a normal fret you have a finger pushing down behind it, which angles the string up a touch. The zero fret doesn't have this.

 

You'll have noticed that fret buzz can sometimes be mitigated by pressing harder or closer to the fret - the same effect, particularly noticeable with heavier gauge strings.

[dmccombe7]

2 hours ago, lonestar said:

I think with zero frets, an idea I wish was used more often, the nut height is set for you. My Sadowsky has an “adjust a nut”,  ie two little screws to adjust the height. Otherwise it’s nut files and a feeler gauge.

My Warwick Thumb NT has individual adjusting screws below the strings. Its an early 89 one. Must admit i like the Sandberg zero fret idea.

Dave

[dmccombe7]

2 hours ago, ubit said:

 

 

They were plucked and then presented for measurement. Definitely not done in situ.

That just sounds painful. What plonker actually thought of that........

Dave

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

A zero fret is typically set a little higher than normal frets. I think this is because with a normal fret you have a finger pushing down behind it, which angles the string up a touch. The zero fret doesn't have this.

 

You'll have noticed that fret buzz can sometimes be mitigated by pressing harder or closer to the fret - the same effect, particularly noticeable with heavier gauge strings.

I try not to press too hard as i have a nerve end problem on my index finger that feels like someone pushing a needle into my finger if i press overly hard too often. 

I'm trying to balance playing light with my left hand while digging in. Its an odd thing but when i used to dig in with my right hand i automatically press the strings harder with my left hand. 

Dave

[Stub Mandrel]

31 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I try not to press too hard as i have a nerve end problem on my index finger that feels like someone pushing a needle into my finger if i press overly hard too often. 

I'm trying to balance playing light with my left hand while digging in. Its an odd thing but when i used to dig in with my right hand i automatically press the strings harder with my left hand. 

Dave

 

I can find myself gritting my teeth...

[ubit]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

So you didn't measure nut height at the same time?

 

 

It was  all done in the best possible taste.

[Geek99]

I’ve set the relief to 0.3mm at the 8th  and the upper frets are still buzzing 

unfretted distance at the 12th is approx 2.5mm 

 

wondering if the nut is badly cut ? 
I can get a clear note from each string when fretted at 3rd by pinging the string with my finger nail 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Geek99

[Downunderwonder]

47 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

I’ve set the relief to 0.3mm at the 12th and the upper frets are still buzzing 

unfretted distance at the 12th is approx 2.5mm 

 

wondering if the nut is badly cut ? 
I can get a clear note from each string when fretted at 3rd by pinging the string with my finger nail 

I think your upper might be everyone else's lower???

[dmccombe7]

Are you hearing the buzz thru the amp as i have buzzing when i play unplugged but when plugged in nothing seems to come thru the amp.

3rd fret is my lower frets.

Dave

Edited October 17, 2021 by dmccombe7