My '71 Musicmaster in need of some TLC

[Shire]

Hi all,

I purchased this bass of BC member 'Steve' a few months ago and I absolutely love it (thanks Steve and sorry for not being in touch)

Its a '71 Fender Musicmaster (short scale) and as much as I love it, it needs some tlc, thats where you lovely knowledgeable folk come in!

I have the original pickup and wiring but I want to start from scratch with the electronics. These are the parts I'll need so any recommendations (or if you have any to sell) would be greatly appreciated

1 x Volume pot
1 x Tone Pot
Relevant wiring
Input Jack and possibly a new pickup? (It currently has a guitar pickup installed)

At the moment the pickup is wired straight to the output jack so I'd like to have some volume and tone controls too.....

I PM'd me old chum Ped and he suggested shopping at these places for parts:

For general parts: [url="http://www.allparts.uk.com/"]http://www.allparts.uk.com/[/url]
For the pickup: [url="http://www.wizardpickups.co.uk/"]http://www.wizardpickups.co.uk/[/url]
You might also try [url="http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/"]http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/[/url] for general parts

So if you have any recommendations on where I should go with this bass, I'm all ears I don't want to route the pickup cavity but I'll listen to any other mad ideas you guys have!

Here is a quick pic of said bass, sorry about the quality, I'll get some better ones tonight





Thanks in advance,
Matt

[neepheid]

It depends how "period correct" you want to be. The Musicmaster was factory fitted with a 6 pole piece Strat pickup under a plastic cover. If you're not bothered about that then the usual upgrade is to put in any alternative Strat sized pickup, like a dual rail humbucker, or a lipstick one. The pics are a little small but it looks like you have some kind of dual rail thing in there already? Anything else and you'll likely have to do some routing and/or pickguard cutting.

If you want it back to before, I have a white cover for a Strat pickup from my Bronco if you want it.

For the rewiring, probably get some nice CTS pots and a Sprague (sp?) Orange Drop capacitor.

To give you some ideas, here is my pimped Squier Bronco -



Full size tuners (I wouldn't mess with the ones in your '71 unless they're not working very well)
BWB pickguard
Lipstick pickup
4 saddle bridge with through body stringing

[steve]

The pickup in it atm is a dual rail Kent Armstrong pup.

+1 for CTS pots and a Sprague (sp?) Orange Drop capacitor.

[Shire]

[quote name='steve' post='452891' date='Apr 3 2009, 12:23 AM']The pickup in it atm is a dual rail Kent Armstrong pup.

+1 for CTS pots and a Sprague (sp?) Orange Drop capacitor.[/quote]

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll have a look on the online shops now and update the thread when I've made some purchases

I'm not too worried about it being 'period correct'. I'm going to leave the tuners and bridge for now and concentrate on the electronics. Thanks for the pic, its given me some future ideas though

Would you recommend 250k or 500k pots? Would these be ok?

[url="http://www.allparts.uk.com/500k-audio-split-knurled-shaft-p-1728.html?p=product"]http://www.allparts.uk.com/500k-audio-spli....html?p=product[/url]

Also with regard to the sprague-orange-drop, would I need a 0.22uF or 0.47uF?

[url="http://www.allparts.uk.com/capacitor-sprague-orange-drop-200v-p-2270.html?p=product"]http://www.allparts.uk.com/capacitor-sprag....html?p=product[/url]

Thanks in advance

Edited April 3, 2009 by Shire

[Delberthot]

Its normally 250k pots for single coils which yours is and 500k for humbuckers.

I say normally because I use 500k pots and paper-in-oil cap in my single coil P bass

[Shire]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='454195' date='Apr 4 2009, 04:28 PM']Its normally 250k pots for single coils which yours is and 500k for humbuckers.

I say normally because I use 500k pots and paper-in-oil cap in my single coil P bass[/quote]


Thanks for the heads up Any idea on the 'orange drop'? Cheers

[Shire]

[quote name='Shire' post='455485' date='Apr 6 2009, 02:25 PM']Thanks for the heads up Any idea on the 'orange drop'? Cheers [/quote]


Ok, I just purchased the following parts. I'll let you know how I get on

Switchcraft SWITCHCRAFT JACK 1/4''

Sprague 'Orange Drop' 0.047 Capacitor

CTS CTS Premium 250k Solid Shaft Pot x 2

Vintage Wire White - 2 Ft.

Here is the wiring diagram that I'm going to use (fig 1b)

[url="http://www.kentarmstrong.com/KA_Wiring_Instructions.pdf"]http://www.kentarmstrong.com/KA_Wiring_Instructions.pdf[/url]



Thanks in advance,
Matt

[neepheid]

[quote name='Shire' post='455681' date='Apr 6 2009, 05:26 PM']Ok, I just purchased the following parts. I'll let you know how I get on

Switchcraft SWITCHCRAFT JACK 1/4''

Sprague 'Orange Drop' 0.047 Capacitor

CTS CTS Premium 250k Solid Shaft Pot x 2

Vintage Wire White - 2 Ft.

Here is the wiring diagram that I'm going to use (fig 1b)

[url="http://www.kentarmstrong.com/KA_Wiring_Instructions.pdf"]http://www.kentarmstrong.com/KA_Wiring_Instructions.pdf[/url]



Thanks in advance,
Matt[/quote]

Oops, it doesn't look like anyone mentioned the different tapers pots can have. I hope you've bought Audio (Log) taper pots, or your volume control will be rather on/off instead of a smooth progression through the available volume range.

[Shire]

[quote name='neepheid' post='455726' date='Apr 6 2009, 06:39 PM']Oops, it doesn't look like anyone mentioned the different tapers pots can have. I hope you've bought Audio (Log) taper pots, or your volume control will be rather on/off instead of a smooth progression through the available volume range.[/quote]

Thanks for the heads up. I bought these ones:

[url="http://www.guitarthings.co.uk/cts-cts-premium-250k-solid-shaft-pot-938-p.asp"]http://www.guitarthings.co.uk/cts-cts-prem...t-pot-938-p.asp[/url]

Are they ok?

Cheers,
Matt

[neepheid]

[quote name='Shire' post='456212' date='Apr 7 2009, 10:27 AM']Thanks for the heads up. I bought these ones:

[url="http://www.guitarthings.co.uk/cts-cts-premium-250k-solid-shaft-pot-938-p.asp"]http://www.guitarthings.co.uk/cts-cts-prem...t-pot-938-p.asp[/url]

Are they ok?

Cheers,
Matt[/quote]

Yeah, they're audio taper. Phew.

Remember that you'll need screw fit knobs for these pots (the ones with grub screws for attaching) - press fit knobs won't work.

[Shire]

[quote name='neepheid' post='456222' date='Apr 7 2009, 10:51 AM']Yeah, they're audio taper. Phew.

Remember that you'll need screw fit knobs for these pots (the ones with grub screws for attaching) - press fit knobs won't work.[/quote]

Phew from me too lol

I am going to use the original knobs (which I have) which have grub screws in

Thanks for your help, its much appreciated

Do you think I could use a P=bass wiring diagram and slightly modify it? I can't find any musicmaster diagrams but I assume its the same principle? Actually, considering its a guitar pickup,, I might have problems with its infinite number of wires!

[neepheid]

[quote name='Shire' post='456289' date='Apr 7 2009, 12:02 PM']Phew from me too lol

I am going to use the original knobs (which I have) which have grub screws in

Thanks for your help, its much appreciated

Do you think I could use a P=bass wiring diagram and slightly modify it? I can't find any musicmaster diagrams but I assume its the same principle? Actually, considering its a guitar pickup,, I might have problems with its infinite number of wires![/quote]

Yeah, the P-bass diagram should work fine. As for your pickup, the diagram you linked to earlier suggests it has 4 wires + shield. The simplest wiring is to join the two ends of the coils in series then the remaining 2 are hot and earth. According to the diagrams, you'd need to join the green and red ones, leaving black (!) as hot and white and shield as earth. Then follow the rest of the diagram from there.

[Shire]

[quote name='neepheid' post='456300' date='Apr 7 2009, 12:10 PM']Yeah, the P-bass diagram should work fine. As for your pickup, the diagram you linked to earlier suggests it has 4 wires + shield. The simplest wiring is to join the two ends of the coils in series then the remaining 2 are hot and earth. According to the diagrams, you'd need to join the green and red ones, leaving black (!) as hot and white and shield as earth. Then follow the rest of the diagram from there.[/quote]

You sir, are a gentleman! Thanks again

I'll get some more interesting pics when the parts arrive and do a little step by step for all the other useless electricians like me!

I'm loving your bronco by the way. I might sell my Squier VM Jazz and get one of those instead if this all goes to plan, I feel quietly confident now!

[Shire]

Ok a little update

The parts arrived:



And I took apart the bass to get wiring...





This is how the pickup was originally wired, straight to the jack:



And this is how it is wired now, although it hums like a bitch!



Here's a wiring diagram of how it is wired, if antone could give me some pointers on where I might have gone wrong I'd be extremely grateful

[steve]

Hi Matt,

That's a neat shielding job you've done, have you got an earth wire connected to the bridge?

[neepheid]

From what I can see, where you've gone wrong is that (according to the Kent Armstrong pdf you posted up earlier) the black wire from the pickup is hot and the white is earth. Yes, I know this colour scheme makes no logical sense, but according to that reference, you've got the hot output of the pickup going to the volume pot casing and the earth going to the volume control. Read it again and double check, but that's what I've read - several times now.

I presume that red wire coming from the jack socket is going to the bridge?

[Shire]

[quote name='steve' post='461158' date='Apr 13 2009, 12:47 PM']Hi Matt,

That's a neat shielding job you've done, have you got an earth wire connected to the bridge?[/quote]

Hi Steve, I think it was your good self who did the shielding, it was like that when I got if from you! Very neat job!

The shielding touches the pickguard where it makes a connection there but I added the red wire to make sure it was earthing properly by connecting it to the bridge and it still hums


[quote name='neepheid' post='461339' date='Apr 13 2009, 05:16 PM']From what I can see, where you've gone wrong is that (according to the Kent Armstrong pdf you posted up earlier) the black wire from the pickup is hot and the white is earth. Yes, I know this colour scheme makes no logical sense, but according to that reference, you've got the hot output of the pickup going to the volume pot casing and the earth going to the volume control. Read it again and double check, but that's what I've read - several times now.

I presume that red wire coming from the jack socket is going to the bridge?[/quote]

Thats what threw me, the colour scheme from their PDF is completely different from any other wiring diagram that I have seen. I tried wiring it the opposeite way as you suggested but there is no output from the pickup at all then, very od so I'm pretty sure I got it the right way round...

As above, the red wire was going to the bridge to earth it but I don't think it needs it. There is already a wire coming from the bridge, through the body and is stuck to the shielding. The pickguard then connects to the shielding when it is in place, essentially earthing it - or so I thought! I'll check the connection under the bridge now and maybe sand it back a bit incase its rusty Other than that I don't know what it could be!

Thanks for your help guys

[steve]

[quote name='Shire' post='461461' date='Apr 13 2009, 07:45 PM']Hi Steve, I think it was your good self who did the shielding, it was like that when I got if from you! Very neat job! [/quote]

I'd completely forgotten I'd done that

[Shire]

[quote name='steve' post='461491' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:08 PM'] I'd completely forgotten I'd done that[/quote]

Hahahaha, you're losing you mind mate!

You also owe me £20....... :ph34r: .....was worth a try

[steve]

[Shire]

Ok so I'm still not having any joy with this. Is there anywhere else I should be earthing to stop the hum/buzz? Finding pics of the wiring is proving difficult although I did stumble on these from a thread found here:

[url="http://www.shortscale.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=410445&sid=ed258bc07e0c0c4ff8ae88142d996d88"]http://www.shortscale.org/forum/viewtopic....8ae88142d996d88[/url]











Pleaser help as I need to clear up the mess I've made, I'm being shouted at! Also got a gig next week!

Is the wire coming from the jack input the best place to earth the bass to? (the bridge) or should I earth from a volume/tone pot instead? Thanks in advance

[Shire]

This image suggest running the earth wire from the tone pot. Does it make a difference?

[neepheid]

You might as well try your bridge wire on a pot casing. Perhaps your shielding is not as complete as you think.

[steve]

Matt, some more thoughts, stream-of-conscious styley

have you checked your soldering for dry joints?
is the bridge earthing wire making proper contact with the bridge itself?
have you tried the same setup with a different bass to be certain the problem is the bass and not another piece of kit?
have you tried the MM with a different amp?
you could try wiggling each wire to see if one is loose?

scanning your post again, I wonder whether you have created a ground loop (I think that's what its called), and you have two connections running from the bridge to earth, each taking a different path. You could try disconnecting one.

[Shire]

[quote name='neepheid' post='463017' date='Apr 15 2009, 02:24 PM']You might as well try your bridge wire on a pot casing. Perhaps your shielding is not as complete as you think.[/quote]

Yeah, I'll try a wire from the tone pot straight to the bridge

[quote name='steve' post='463033' date='Apr 15 2009, 02:43 PM']Matt, some more thoughts, stream-of-conscious styley

have you checked your soldering for dry joints?[/quote]

No, how would I go about doing that? Sorry I'm new to all this electronical business

[quote name='steve' post='463033' date='Apr 15 2009, 02:43 PM']is the bridge earthing wire making proper contact with the bridge itself?[/quote]

I had checked when I originally got the bass but I'll double check it again

[quote name='steve' post='463033' date='Apr 15 2009, 02:43 PM']have you tried the same setup with a different bass to be certain the problem is the bass and not another piece of kit?[/quote]

No, I don't want to take apart my Jazz beacuase if I f**k that up too I'll have nothing to play. Not something I can afford to do with a gig next week!

[quote name='steve' post='463033' date='Apr 15 2009, 02:43 PM']have you tried the MM with a different amp?[/quote]

Other than a guitar amp, the Asdown is my only amp. The Jazz Bass works fine through it though so I'm certain its not the amp

[quote name='steve' post='463033' date='Apr 15 2009, 02:43 PM']you could try wiggling each wire to see if one is loose?[/quote]

I have checked them and they're all pretty solid in terms of soldering and connection

[quote name='steve' post='463033' date='Apr 15 2009, 02:43 PM']scanning your post again, I wonder whether you have created a ground loop (I think that's what its called), and you have two connections running from the bridge to earth, each taking a different path. You could try disconnecting one.[/quote]

Ok Steve, I'll look into that possibility thanks for all your help!