Playing songs in a covers band you dont always like.?

[Bridgehouse]

3 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Acksherly, I think @TimR is more or less correct in his assertion. Most vanilla covers are pretty bog-standard; the changes are predictable to the extent you'll be sat there listening and you think 'I bet they change up a key' and five seconds later they do. You scribble it all down as you go, tidy your notes into a folder and off to rehearsal, there to iron out the group arrangement and sprinkle some fairy-dust on the choons.

 

An ability to work out the skeleton of a song in one pass in no way reflects on my limited musical talents. It's just that a significant percentage of each generation of pop songs is written to a formula of the day and it's getting more formulaic as time goes on.

 

For the last while everything's been about I, IV, V and VI in various permutations and if the K-Pop Wave takes off (as well it might) you can expect to hear I, V, VI, IV even more often than you do now.

 

His Eminence Mr Rick Beato on cliche chord progressions:

 

 

You stroll into a perfectly sensible thread late, no tie, shoes a mess, scruffy jacket, reeking of brandy and dare to derail it with Rick Beato??

 

RICK BEATO??

 

Disgraceful.

[dmccombe7]

12 minutes ago, upside downer said:

Anyone want to form an 80s tribute act? I've just listened to Now That's What I Call Music! Volumes 1 through to 15 and can play all the songs on them now.

 

Wish I hadn't, the 80s were shyte.

 

 

And i thought it was just me that thought that 😂

Dave

[skankdelvar]

Just now, Bridgehouse said:

RICK BEATO??

 

He's my main man. 

 

Well, for some things, not all of them, but, yeah, him and Kenny Gioia for most stuff.

[Reggaebass]

2 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Come on @Reggaebass...........even i did that on the first take.

It starts on a note somewhere down at the low end of the neck and from there just use yir scales and jam it.

I've never had any complaints of my version.........at home. 

 

I actually managed that one last year during lockdown but i've forgotten it again. Was a hard one to nail. I was at it for weeks if i remember right. Once i got it i kept playing the start riff at rehearsals until everyone told me to "give it a rest Dave".  No pleasing some people 

 

Dave

You done well there Dave 👍, I dip into it every now and again, I’ve actually got about 90% of it , but it falls apart when I get up to speed 😁

[dmccombe7]

10 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

Did you enjoy that after just one read? 

Gonna go back over it as i missed the 2nd break

Dave

[dmccombe7]

7 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

I am having exactly the same problem, listening back to several bass lines that I recorded over lockdown and can’t play one of them, not a one. Mind you, I am smashed out of my gourd on elastic spasm cakes so who knows?

You do realise there's a theme coming over in your posts 

Dave

[ezbass]

Just now, skankdelvar said:

 

He's my main man. 

 

Well, for some things, not all of them, but, yeah, him and Kenny Gioia for most stuff.

I’ll watch him, but I’m fully aware that he promotes his channel with plenty of clickbait titles. One week it’s the ruination of music, the next it’s what makes the same song great. Plus his ‘reactions’ are pantomime at its worst.*

 

 

*On no it isn’t!

[dmccombe7]

3 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

You done well there Dave 👍, I dip into it every now and again, I’ve actually got about 90% of it , but it falls apart when I get up to speed 😁

Oh i never played it at full speed 😁

Dave

 

[funkgod]

On 15/10/2021 at 18:42, FinnDave said:

Treat it as a job, with the bonus that there are some songs that you enjoy. When you're playing the ones you don't like, just think of the money.

Daves right,

 two things going on here,

1 i already do the music i like cus i write it for my funk band, but it does not put steak on the table, sometimes only just about sausages.

2, to pay for this self indulgent passion i need some income, so i play cabaret as well ( covers band)

in that, i dont care what i play, its not for me to like its for the people paying me, i will go with whats needed.

so, if it pays me  i will stick a hoop in my pants ware size 30 boots and a red nose on my face as long as the people are dancing

i dont care al play any old sh!te cus im just a music for cash slag. 🙂

sorry i will rephrase that...

im just a skint music for cash slag,

out come = cash needed for funk.................. and sausages.

Edited October 20, 2021 by funkgod

[skankdelvar]

4 minutes ago, ezbass said:

I’ll watch him, but I’m fully aware that he promotes his channel with plenty of clickbait titles. One week it’s the ruination of music, the next it’s what makes the same song great. Plus his ‘reactions’ are pantomime at its worst.*

 

 

*On no it isn’t!

 

I admit that Rick's a bit colonial in his excessive enthusiasm for stuff (my first reaction on watching him was 'Dial it back a bit, chum') but the 'What Makes This Song Great' vids (103 of 'em) are usually pretty cool.

 

The one about Bohemian Rhapsody which included a comprehensive breakdown of the harmony vocals was pure class. YMMV.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Teebs said:

What was the song?

Tore Down

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Teebs said:

Terrible parenting!

 

You wait  YT. All those years of penury await...

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Bridgehouse said:

Actually I’m reminded of a time I auditioned for a covers band. I spent hours learning half the set on the fretless Shuker. Literally hours. 
 

I turned up to the audition and as I was getting the bass out the lead singer said

 

”Oh, sorry mate - we don’t do any Paul Young covers..”

 

I learned wherever I lay my hat, only to be told 'we are doing the Marvin Gaye original'

[Frank Blank]

41 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

You do realise there's a theme coming over in your posts 

Dave

Not really, after all I’m off my tree on magnetic gas plums.

[bassman7755]

4 hours ago, Bridgehouse said:

Actually, on a serious note, a flippant “one listen through is enough” is disrespectful to the other musicians in the band, and to the audience.

 

+1.  If I take the trouble to go and see a band I expect them to made at least some effort to learn the songs properly, I'm fine with a reinterpretation, not fine with someone obviously busking it having never sat down and learned it. 

[Bridgehouse]

Just now, bassman7755 said:

 

+1.  If I take the trouble to go and see a band I expect them to made at least some effort to learn the songs properly, I'm fine with a reinterpretation, not fine with someone obviously busking it having never sat down and learned it. 

My point exactly. It’s also disrespectful of the venue who are potentially paying for you to perform. 
 

 

[Raymondo]

40 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Acksherly, I think @TimR is more or less correct in his assertion. Most vanilla covers are pretty bog-standard; the changes are predictable to the extent you'll be sat there listening and you think 'I bet they change up a key' and five seconds later they do. You scribble it all down as you go, tidy your notes into a folder and off to rehearsal, there to iron out the group arrangement and sprinkle some fairy-dust on the choons.

 

An ability to work out the skeleton of a song in one pass in no way reflects on my limited musical talents. It's just that a significant percentage of each generation of pop songs is written to a formula of the day and it's getting more formulaic as time goes on.

 

For the last while everything's been about I, IV, V and VI in various permutations and if the K-Pop Wave takes off (as well it might) you can expect to hear I, V, VI, IV even more often than you do now.

 

His Eminence Mr Rick Beato on cliche chord progressions:

 

 

We have been having fun tonight commenting on the fact that "we should all be able to play most songs on one hearing" and although on first glance this appears to give credence to that opinion in fact twice during the video he cites occasions where that may not be so true.

 

" the Beatles had 27 number 1's but only used the "common chord progression on one of them ...

 

The guy that's wrote all the hit songs lately( never heard of him and can't be bothered to watch it again) wrote 22 number 1's and only one of them used the famous chords....

That's 47 very popular songs that don't follow a standard pattern!

 

He also tells us to look out for the chord progression in the choruses of many songs ...what about the verses?

 

 I believe it's possible to play a semblance of a lot of pop songs on one hearing, but that's a long way from having "learned to play them," and I think it's disingenuous to dismiss people on here as not right for a covers band if they can't play it after one hearing. (Although I quoted your post Skank, my latter statement here is in fact aimed at Tim who espoused the opinion referred to).

[Stub Mandrel]

56 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Acksherly, I think @TimR is more or less correct in his assertion. Most vanilla covers are pretty bog-standard; the changes are predictable to the extent you'll be sat there listening and you think 'I bet they change up a key' and five seconds later they do. You scribble it all down as you go, tidy your notes into a folder and off to rehearsal, there to iron out the group arrangement and sprinkle some fairy-dust on the choons.

 

An ability to work out the skeleton of a song in one pass in no way reflects on my limited musical talents. It's just that a significant percentage of each generation of pop songs is written to a formula of the day and it's getting more formulaic as time goes on.

 

For the last while everything's been about I, IV, V and VI in various permutations and if the K-Pop Wave takes off (as well it might) you can expect to hear I, V, VI, IV even more often than you do now.

 

His Eminence Mr Rick Beato on cliche chord progressions:

 

 

 

Then there's the Taco Belle's Canon phenomenon.

[skankdelvar]

14 minutes ago, Raymondo said:

He also tells us to look out for the chord progression in the choruses of many songs ...what about the verses?

 

One thing that grieves me is how many modern pop songs have the same chord progression all the way through, chorus, verse, the same, just adding and subtracting instruments, changing the vocal melody. 

 

Seriously, though, it's not really possible to properly 'learn' a song in one pass and I kind of reject the suggestion that the ability to do so is some sort of prerequisite for being in a covers band. Mind you, anyone who can't play My Boy Lollipop after one hearing should really take up stamp collecting instead.
 

Edited October 19, 2021 by skankdelvar

[Raymondo]

3 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

 

One thing that grieves me is how many modern pop songs have the same chord progression all the way through, chorus, verse, the same, just adding and subtracting instruments, changing the vocal melody. 

 

Seriously, though, it's not really possible to properly 'learn' a song in one pass and I kind of reject the suggestion that the ability to do so is some sort of prerequisite for being in a covers band. Mind you, anyone who can't play My Boy Lollipop after one hearing should really take up stamp collecting instead.
 

 My Pizz is equally boiled in such circumstances.

 

I don't mind busking them at a jam session in the Dog and Poacher though 😉

[Skinnyman]

5 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Mind you, anyone who can't play My Boy Lollipop after one hearing should really take up stamp collecting instead.

That’s me out then.

 

That was my lockdown project and I’m still struggling with it

[skankdelvar]

1 minute ago, Raymondo said:

 My Pizz is equally boiled in such circumstances.

 

I don't mind busking them at a jam session in the Dog and Poacher though 😉

 

Ah, busking a song. The so-called 'Third Way' between learning it and re-interpreting it.

[Raymondo]

Just now, Skinnyman said:

That’s me out then.

 

That was my lockdown project and I’m still struggling with it

 

You don't have to lick the lollipop at the same time Skinny you know?

 

[peteb]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

Acksherly, I think @TimR is more or less correct in his assertion. Most vanilla covers are pretty bog-standard; the changes are predictable to the extent you'll be sat there listening and you think 'I bet they change up a key' and five seconds later they do. You scribble it all down as you go, tidy your notes into a folder and off to rehearsal, there to iron out the group arrangement and sprinkle some fairy-dust on the choons.

 

An ability to work out the skeleton of a song in one pass in no way reflects on my limited musical talents. It's just that a significant percentage of each generation of pop songs is written to a formula of the day and it's getting more formulaic as time goes on.

 

For the last while everything's been about I, IV, V and VI in various permutations and if the K-Pop Wave takes off (as well it might) you can expect to hear I, V, VI, IV even more often than you do now.

 

 

Absolutely. How do people think all the Nashville session guys work? They all listen to a demo of the track once and make a lead chart, play it through once so that the producer can make comments and the second time they play it, the red light is on! The guys who get the work are those who can come up with the right parts from scratch and get them down in the first couple of takes! I think that some people here would be shocked about how most pros work on lower profile / paying gigs.

 

If you learn enough songs, you start to recognise the patterns and chord progressions. I once did a last minute dep with no preparation at all (I got the call mid-afternoon when I was halfway up a hill on a MTB). I just told the BL to make charts for all the songs and I would busk it. It was all simple stuff (Rocky Mountain Way, Boys of Summer, I Love Rock n’Roll, etc) and I had heard all of the songs, even if I hadn’t played most of them. I just hid the sheets on a chair behind the PA (note, no visible music stand)! It went well – the only real mistakes were one song where he had forgotten to put the bridge on the lead sheet and another (that I actually knew) when I stomped on a chorus pedal that had been set to stun, which was quite an interesting take on the original part!  

 

Now, if even I can get away with doing that, then imagine what the real titans of the bass world can do – y’know, guys like Sklar, Pino & TimR…

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by peteb

[Bridgehouse]

12 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

 

One thing that grieves me is how many modern pop songs have the same chord progression all the way through, chorus, verse, the same, just adding and subtracting instruments, changing the vocal melody. 

 

Seriously, though, it's not really possible to properly 'learn' a song in one pass and I kind of the suggestion that the ability to do so is some sort of prerequisite for being in a covers band. Mind you, anyone who can't play My Boy Lollipop after one hearing should really take up stamp collecting instead.

 

There's a significant difference between the complexity of a songs chord structure, it's rhythm, and what makes it unique/memorable - even from a Bass point of view.

 

There are songs with complex bass lines which are rhythmically straight forward, some with simple bass lines in verses and choruses but complex bridges or solos, some with simple bass lines that are made unique by complex fills or runs in places, and then there are many songs that rely on an accurate and very well timed bass rhythm. 

 

For me (and I'm a mere landlubber when it comes to some of the experts on here) bass is a subtle but complex mix of notes, rhythms, timing, fills, runs, and note placement. 

 

Adam Clayton - oft maligned, oft derided - (and liking the song or not is irrelevant) - With or Without You is a perfect example of a simple bass line that is executed with such precision that it carries the song and gives it most of it's uniqueness. Where he places notes, when he chooses to slide between notes, the driving force of the rhythmic playing.

 

Colin Greenwood (for it is he) - Fake Plastic Trees. I learned the notes to it in one listen. And that was about 10% of the work required to make it sound authentic. Another masterclass in Bass note placement. Once again, a song that is made by the bassline - without it, it would fall. Harmonic perfection, rhythmic excellence, subtle, well placed and executed beautifully. 

 

Again, for me,  bass playing is about that heady combination of note, rhythm, subtlety and emphasis, and where you place your notes. 

 

I've written a few bass lines I'm really proud of. I've even recorded them and felt a reasonable satisfaction with my playing. However, I've also played some of them live and on occasion felt horrified by how bad they sounded when one of those elements listed above wasn't right. 

 

The actual notes are just the beginning of the bass player's story.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Bridgehouse