Greene King pub gig payment

[chris_b]

5 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

 

You play gigs at Tesco?

 

Imagine the poor sods doing business with the supermarkets. All those reduced price offers aren't coming out of the supermarkets side.

 

So you have 3 gigs lined up and the pub tells you you're doing a 3 for the price of 2 offer!!

 

I'd get to the bottom of the paperwork, then when you go back it'll be a doddle.

[Velarian]

The company I work for uses SAP Concur for paying expenses. I used it once and then steadfastly avoided doing anything that involved claiming expenses again. They also use a system called Coupa for managing supplier payments which is a total pile of crap, completely unintuitive and almost unusable. 
 

Systems like these are a PITA. 

[TimR]

18 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Well there's another cost to include in your bill. List it as admin charges. It wouldn't just be accepted in any other industry without charging to cover the additional costs and labour. 

 

Only if you're giving them an itemised bill. Most of us will be just charging for a gig.

 

Let's hope we don't all have to join a preffered suppliers list, and have to provide insurance, PAT certs and Risk Assessments. Pub gigs will become a total nightmare.

[styleruk]

Just going through this, did a gig Friday, was told on the day about this, it's Wed now and still not approved ready for me to put in an invoice.  Ridiculous, our price is going up £100 next gig to cover this twatting about.  Wouldn't mind but we bought several rounds of drink and dinner, wish I'd told them to send me an invoice for the meal now!

[Supernaut]

I would refuse to play at a Greene King pub purely for the fact that their beer is awful. 

[TimR]

3 hours ago, styleruk said:

Just going through this, did a gig Friday, was told on the day about this, it's Wed now and still not approved ready for me to put in an invoice.  Ridiculous, our price is going up £100 next gig to cover this twatting about.  Wouldn't mind but we bought several rounds of drink and dinner, wish I'd told them to send me an invoice for the meal now!

 

I'm having a battle just trying to get to talk to the manager of a pub so that I can change the email address, because a band member decided to get involved (unasked) with trying to get paid and is now refusing to use their system. He's also refusing to play there again...

 

Considering it was a gig in August, I'm not sure we are going to see the money ever.

[bagsieblue]

On 25/10/2021 at 06:45, Velarian said:

The company I work for uses SAP Concur for paying expenses. I used it once and then steadfastly avoided doing anything that involved claiming expenses again.

Agreed!, We use this, awful system.

[geoham]

I’ve used SAP systems extensively in the past, and the one thing they have in common is a terrible user experience.

 

There’s a Greene King pub we play a few times a year that’s asked us to start invoicing via Concur. Their previous system used to charge us a £3 service fee to use it. Does anyone know if Concur does the same?

 

The mention of this usually sets me off on a rant with our singer who books the gigs (he would happily play 6 hour sets seven days a week for free). The gig works out a well below minimum wage for us and to charge us for the privilege of being paid is ludicrous. We’re all hobbyists with day jobs, but it’s not the point!

[zbd1960]

ugh SAP/Concur... yuk. It's just as bad if you have to use it in a big organisation. It never integrates with anyone's IT systems despite what the snake oil salesmen say. Stupid business managers buy it without getting a proper technical assessment then IT spend years trying to get it to integrate with systems.

 

I became convinced that the reason the bean counters liked the expenses system was that it was so difficult to use that most people gave up claiming 

[bagsieblue]

1 hour ago, zbd1960 said:

ugh SAP/Concur... yuk. It's just as bad if you have to use it in a big organisation. It never integrates with anyone's IT systems despite what the snake oil salesmen say. Stupid business managers buy it without getting a proper technical assessment then IT spend years trying to get it to integrate with systems.

 

I became convinced that the reason the bean counters liked the expenses system was that it was so difficult to use that most people gave up claiming 

Absolutely this.

We use this at work. 

I've used it once.

I now flat out refuse to get involved in anything that requires claiming back.

Horrible system.

 

[Velarian]

25 minutes ago, bagsieblue said:

Absolutely this.

We use this at work. 

I've used it once.

I now flat out refuse to get involved in anything that requires claiming back.

Horrible system.

 

This is my exact experience too!

 

Fortunately I’ve since retired so I can permanently avoid the damn thing now. 

[Cat Burrito]

I've noticed that since the first lockdown more venues seem to be doing this, or variations on this. I'm still waiting payment from August for one show. Generally people pay up but it's a major faff. 

[Bassfinger]

Not come across this yet, but our manager (AKA lead guitarist) claims to be set up and ready for it.

[Silvia Bluejay]

3 hours ago, geoham said:

 

Their previous system used to charge us a £3 service fee to use it. Does anyone know if Concur does the same?

 

No. No fee to pay, at least by the supplier. We got paid exactly what we invoiced, and we didn't have to add a percentage for the handling fee, unlike what we used to do with Invapay.

[Daz39]

2 hours ago, bagsieblue said:

Absolutely this.

We use this at work. 

I've used it once.

I now flat out refuse to get involved in anything that requires claiming back.

Horrible system.

 

We use Webxpenses at work and it's brilliant - a real time-saver. Integration is more a problem because our ERP is so 20th Century, but we're getting there.

I agree though - as a band wanting payment, it ought to be arranged behind the scenes by Greene King so that it's seamless and quick for you. You shouldn't have to be doing the hard work or waiting.

[pete.young]

7 hours ago, geoham said:

I’ve used SAP systems extensively in the past, and the one thing they have in common is a terrible user experience.

 

 

It's called Sap for a reason!

[Golats]

It's bloody awful. I've just had my expense claim rejected because Greene King doesn't accept invoices that do not contain "your name and address". They must have missed my name and address, written in bold letters at the start of the invoice. Apparently I need to submit another invoice that includes my name and address...what do I do?

 

 

[Bassfinger]

You don't state how much they own, but its presumably a good few hundred sovs.  

 

Send them a formal final request for payment, describing your attempts to use their sheety system and how you did include your name and address andnthey ignored it, and include a reasonable but very clear deadline. Send recorded delovery, keep copies of everything,

 

If that doesn't work send them the small claims court form (its mainly done online now but you can still apply with the paper form) and give them a reasonable period to respond. In my experience companies usually cough up at that point - the small claims court is a track or the county court, and the last thing any supposedly reputable organisstion wants is a CCJ against their name.

 

And if they don't, then submit the form. Provided your case is clear cut and youve documented everything then you can also sting them for the court fees and a reasonable charge for your time and any costs their late payment mqy have incurred. Only been this far once, and they settled the debt and the court fees before it got as far as a hearing.

 

We've agreed as a band we won't accept any gigs from Greene King because of their very poor reputation for utilising this system, and we've turned  down one or two because of this and told the pubs why. If everyone followed suit they might start managing the process more diligently, or move to a different pricess entirely.

[Nicko]

7 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

We've agreed as a band we won't accept any gigs from Greene King because of their very poor reputation for utilising this system, and we've turned  down one or two because of this and told the pubs why. If everyone followed suit they might start managing the process more diligently, or move to a different pricess entirely.

In principal I agree but the problem is that the LL of the pub has no choice and GK are unlikely to give a flying flip whether you play there or not.  There are few enough venues offering live music and boycotting them because the head office isn't set up for it is a bit self defeating.  If they don't pay that's another issue.  I only have experience of the old Invapay system which seemed equally crap but we didn't have to wait long for the money.

[fleabag]

Functions and pubs will never pay enough to make a living, and if some bands manage that, then fair play.

 

For me, gigging is all about the enjoyment.  I dont do it for the ( small ) amount of money involved.  Therefore hassle is not what i want or need.  I avoid GK pubs at all costs.  If a venue doesnt pay cash, i'll move onto one that does.  Less gigs ?  Probably , but it doesnt bother me in the slightest

[Silvia Bluejay]

Watch out for The Death Of Cash. At the end of our NYE gig, we were paid by card (we have one of those small readers you link to your mobile). We hadn't agreed that in advance, but the pub had £70 in cash at the end of the night. EVERYBODY paid by card. We added the small handling fee, and everybody was happy. This is going to become a rather more common occurrence, I think.

[TimR]

Dealing with transfers is fine. Invoicing and waiting for payment isn't. 

 

Pubs don't invoice their customers. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by TimR

[Silvia Bluejay]

2 minutes ago, TimR said:

Dealing with transfers is fine. Invoicing and waiting for payment isn't. 

 

Pubs don't invoice their customers. 

While I agree that life would be easier without Invapay and its successors, punters at a pub are not suppliers. Suppliers invoice their clients, be that pubs, supermarkets or anything else. Bands are suppliers, so it's not unthinkable that, to have a clean audit trail, pubs want invoices from us. As discussed earlier in this thread, the system appears to be aimed at stopping landlords cheating the brewery.

 

Now, if the system receives a valid invoice and can't recognise it, or read it, that's another matter. 🤔

[TimR]

The pubs are suppliers to customers.

 

There's no reason why once you are on their system, the money can't be transferred instantly.

 

Either on this thread or another, this is going to have tax implications for band leaders whose bands turnover more than £1000 of gigs in a year. At £250 that's 4 gigs.

[Silvia Bluejay]

Distributing the money among the band members and getting receipts - or being able to get receipts if needed - should be OK to avoid band leaders looking like they're getting rich (HAHA....!). It's up to each musician to declare their income from music if it's deemed to be high enough to be taxable.