Er...value of cars vs basses.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='453507' date='Apr 3 2009, 04:50 PM']The Germans brought the scheme in a while ago , which is why VW had their best Feb sales figures ever and our guys are either redundant or on short time....
British Politicians.......useless.[/quote]

Fine, but remember where that £2.5K would be coming from, i.e. our pockets!

[Randy_Marsh]

[quote]Gotta watch those charismatic German leaders though.[/quote]

LMAO! nice one

[Musicman20]

A good well-known guitar/basss/amp will always end up holding more value than a car. Normally they don't have the sh*t running costs as well. Cars and MOTS piss me off. Why they should cost so much is beyond me.

I hate the costs of cars...I'd love a nice Audi...but I may as well just run standard cars and spend cash on things that I think are more enjoyable (instruments and amps).

[fragility]

It is annoying...everyone seems to think I should get a better car but to be honest mine gets me from A to B perfectly well, anything on top of that is just to have a fun 'toy' to play with...and I'd rather spen dmy toy money on basses!

[Marcus]

[quote name='Clockworkwar' post='453543' date='Apr 3 2009, 05:24 PM']What happens if you own a Rolls Royce phantom? Potential 1/10 bass budget of £35,000?[/quote]

Custom Alembic (in the current exchange rate)

The Rolls Royce of Bass Guitars....

[Kiwi]

[quote name='escholl' post='453617' date='Apr 3 2009, 07:33 PM']Agreed. Also, a car is not, generally, a piece of art in its own right. A bass, an expensive bass, can be -- thus it's more.[/quote]
You can define for yourself what constitutes art of course. But I think anyone who diamond encrusted and pickled their SX and then went on to ask for a few million quid because it was art would find themselves coming up a bit short on covering their costs of production. You can certainly turn a bass into a piece of art but so long as a bass is originally created with the primary purpose of being played then its not a piece of art, its a piece of craft. And if its created as a piece of art in the first place and as a piece of craft in the second then I'd suggest its value would be highly undermined to a bass player. Thats why I don't find the justification of high price tags on basses because they're pieces of "art" at all plausible. I think such claims by the makers are pretentious, to say the least, however we've all seen examples of accessibly priced basses whose makers have had artistic intentions and these instruments tend to blur the boundary a little more authentically (for me at least).

But back on topic I think the points made about cars being plentiful and costing money to own is probably as good an explanation I can think of myself. Certainly if someone is looking to buy a used car there is a tremendous variety and range of conditions to choose from and I guess that is what drives the depreciation.

And the point about the role of craftsmanship in adding value shouldn't be underestimated as well. Cars such as the one I own are very much a product of a manufacturing process rather than craftsmanship and are priced to take advantage of scales of economy and highly sophisticated, automated manufacturing process that gets cheaper to fund the more cars it produces.

Having said all that, out of context, a comparison of the two still defies belief.

[leschirons]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='453277' date='Apr 3 2009, 11:43 AM']I've just had a look at the value of my car and its about the same as the price as the Celinder Update J I sold recently (depreciation on the car of about 50% over the 3 years I've owned it). When I compare the two in terms of mechanical sophistication, technology and sheer amenity, there's no comparison. The car should be worth way more.

I know its to do with market forces and all that but still nevertheless, the idea of trading my car (with its ABS, airbags, electric windows, cd player/radio, precision engineering etc.) for a couple of bits of wood bolted together with some hardware, magnets and basic wiring doesn't seem quite right. Any one else feel the same way?[/quote]

Not meaning to sound condescending but I can see straight away where you've gone wrong with your car investment. Yours has "Precision engineering" that's your problem, you should have bought one with "Jazz" engineering. It would have kept it's value better.

Edited April 5, 2009 by leschirons

[EdwardHimself]

Yeah i think the thing really is that cars depriciate in value because the parts depreciate in condition but i think more than that it's also because the cars depriciate in style as well. If you think about it a fender jazz bass is just as desirable now as it was in the 60's, 70's 80's and 90's and you can bet your ass it'll be still as desirable aestetically in the 2010's and beyond. Most cars go in and out of style, most basses don't. Also what is quite interesting is that most of the cost of a car is actually the R&D on designing it (it's what hopefully will be paying my wages in the future!) and implementing it into production which is why models get cheaper as they become older, even if they're brand new cars. Especially if it's about to be replaced by a newer model. As i said, it's all about the new style.

Edited April 5, 2009 by EdwardHimself

[Kiwi]

Thats a good point and I was thinking about it yesterday myself. If I wanted to minimise the depreciation on any future automotive purchase I might make then going classic might be a good route in the future. However, not at the expense of modern comforts or reliability. Hmmmmmmm... ...a desirable marque from early 90's might be good value next time I'm looking to buy, maybe.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='454545' date='Apr 5 2009, 10:49 AM']Thats a good point and I was thinking about it yesterday myself. If I wanted to minimise the depreciation on any future automotive purchase I might make then going classic might be a good route in the future. However, not at the expense of modern comforts or reliability. Hmmmmmmm... ...a desirable marque from early 90's might be good value next time I'm looking to buy, maybe.[/quote]

Great idea. Some cars from the 70's and 80's are quickly becoming classics such as the Mercedies X00SL convertibles. It's really all about looking at what cars will become classics in the future. Some cars you can't go wrong with, like ferarris and stuff. But others you can't be so sure about. I reckon good cars to look out for are the German makes like VW and Mercedes. I also reckon the early-mid 90s japaneese high performance cars like the subarus and nissan skyline r32-33s have hit rock bottom in value. Some people don't think japaneese cars will ever become desirable classics but they didn't reckon on cars like the nissan figaro which has selling prices today of around £10-15 thousand. Not bad for a 17-18 year old car. If you've got a good eye and you keep the thing in good nick you might end up with a car worth a bomb in the future.

Edited April 5, 2009 by EdwardHimself

[Marcus]

For obvious economic reasons there are massive bargains to be had on a 2-3 year old decent motor......

Wind forward a couple of years 2-3 year old motors will be rare as hen's teeth due to nobody buying new cars now.....

Supply and demand dictates 2nd hand prices will be strong at that point...

On that basis now is a great time to pick up a used bargain and should also be a good time to buy new in the full expectation of strong residuals in 3 years

Having said that...... I'm not an economist (although I do have A Level Economics)

Edited April 5, 2009 by Marcus

[Linus27]

My Lotus Elise S1 should end up as a classic. Its going that way at the moment. Not many for sale on Pistonheads and seems to be getting less as the years pass. Mine is 12 years old and cost me £8000 and has not lost anything in value. Still only has 40k on the clock and is it amazing condition. As its in the original Lotus Racing Green colour with cream interior like the launch car, fingers crossed it will be worth a bit in 10 years plus. Some say that they think it will go the same way as early Porsche 911's.

I think its very difficult to predict which cars will be classics and worth money but its worth looking for bizarre or rare models. BMW have sold bucket loads of Mini Coopers so I can't see that being a classic but maybe the John Cooper Special might. BMW Z3 probably won't but the BMW Z3M Coupe probably will.

[escholl]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='454432' date='Apr 5 2009, 12:00 AM']You can define for yourself what constitutes art of course. But I think anyone who diamond encrusted and pickled their SX and then went on to ask for a few million quid because it was art would find themselves coming up a bit short on covering their costs of production. You can certainly turn a bass into a piece of art but so long as a bass is originally created with the primary purpose of being played then its not a piece of art, its a piece of craft. And if its created as a piece of art in the first place and as a piece of craft in the second then I'd suggest its value would be highly undermined to a bass player. Thats why I don't find the justification of high price tags on basses because they're pieces of "art" at all plausible. I think such claims by the makers are pretentious, to say the least, however we've all seen examples of accessibly priced basses whose makers have had artistic intentions and these instruments tend to blur the boundary a little more authentically (for me at least).

But back on topic I think the points made about cars being plentiful and costing money to own is probably as good an explanation I can think of myself. Certainly if someone is looking to buy a used car there is a tremendous variety and range of conditions to choose from and I guess that is what drives the depreciation.

And the point about the role of craftsmanship in adding value shouldn't be underestimated as well. Cars such as the one I own are very much a product of a manufacturing process rather than craftsmanship and are priced to take advantage of scales of economy and highly sophisticated, automated manufacturing process that gets cheaper to fund the more cars it produces.[/quote]

Sorry, i guess i should have said "craft" then. I consider good luthiers to be artists in their own right, maybe craftsmen is a better word. But looking at some basses, such as the Bas Extravaganza stuff, I would say it probably bridges the gap.

But if you define art as something which has no practical purpose other than to be art, then i suppose you've got a point.

I think we pretty much agree on the same point anyways ^_^