Chowny/Retrovibe to become fully UK brands

[uk_lefty]

7 minutes ago, Chownybass said:

TBF We'd have had to put up the price of the Indian Manufactured ones too anyway. Maybe 10-12%. Timber has increased massively in price, parts have increased too, as has shipping. 

And that makes the small size of the UK uplift even more impressive.

[mudsprout]

11 hours ago, FDC484950 said:

Not a dig in any way, but to put this in perspective it’s a UK made bass that is cheaper than most smartphones. I do wonder about the economic motivations behind what people purchase sometimes. For example, I recently bought a new winter coat. It was £350! The last one I bought from the same brand 21 years ago was £250. I very nearly didn’t bother as it i thought it was very expensive. But on the other hand I’ve spent £3K on a bass which is just a hobby, and man maths has calculated it to be very good value for money and an essential purchase 🤩

Yep it’s totally justifiable and good value for a locally produced product (assuming decent quality…made in UK doesn’t automatically mean that, though in this case I’m sure it will). Just knee jerk reaction is that’s noticeably more than the expected 15% increase. Didn’t mean to sound whiny, I’ve already said I’d happily pay the premium to support the shift to local production.

 

Also most phones aren’t over £660, just the fancy ones! Good perspective though, phones are relatively short lived products yet we all accept it’s normal spending a couple hundred every few years on them. By that  standard even a £3k bass can be seen as good value 😆

[BigRedX]

How will moving production of the instruments to the UK be affected by the availability of woods and hardware?

 

Will you be moving to UK sourced wood? 

[Chownybass]

35 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

How will moving production of the instruments to the UK be affected by the availability of woods and hardware?

 

Will you be moving to UK sourced wood? 

 

Hardware unfortunately still comes from Korea. And the USA. There just isn't an alternative.

 

Yes we will try use UK sourced wood where we can. But things like Maple come from Canada/USA. 

 

[BigRedX]

18 minutes ago, Chownybass said:

Hardware unfortunately still comes from Korea. And the USA. There just isn't an alternative.

 

Yes we will try use UK sourced wood where we can. But things like Maple come from Canada/USA. 

 

 

So it's still more cost effective and easy to ship hardware from abroad (especially the US) then it is to make it in the UK?

 

I know that no-one serious makes their own machine heads, but several UK guitar makers (Gus, Overwater, and Wal) have other bespoke hardware (bridges in particular) that I would have thought were made somewhere in the UK (I know for a fact that Gus make all their own hardware except for the machine heads and Straplocks).

 

Also is there no locally grown alternative to Maple? Surely Fender only picked it originally because it was cheap and easily available in the US, and not because of any unique properties that weren't available from other species of wood?

[Woodinblack]

35 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

So it's still more cost effective and easy to ship hardware from abroad (especially the US) then it is to make it in the UK?

 

Certainly is. There are no large scale UK manufacturers of guitar hardware that I know of.

 

35 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I know that no-one serious makes their own machine heads, but several UK guitar makers (Gus, Overwater, and Wal) have other bespoke hardware (bridges in particular) that I would have thought were made somewhere in the UK (I know for a fact that Gus make all their own hardware except for the machine heads and Straplocks).

 

Sure you can make them. but making them in low quantities means that they are very expensive. As you can see with your list of manufacturers provided, there are no £500 wals or overwaters are there.

 

35 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Also is there no locally grown alternative to Maple? Surely Fender only picked it originally because it was cheap and easily available in the US, and not because of any unique properties that weren't available from other species of wood?

 

Maple isn't an indiginous tree to the UK (apart from the field maple), so its not a cheap wood in the UK like it was in the states (where its native and dominant).

[BigRedX]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Sure you can make them. but making them in low quantities means that they are very expensive. As you can see with your list of manufacturers provided, there are no £500 wals or overwaters are there.

 

From what I have seen, Chowny are no longer in the £500 price bracket, At the upper end their instruments are over £1,000. Also what are the production quantise for the Chowny range? AFAICS their instruments are still in the niche category where bespoke hardware may actually make economic sense.

 

8 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Maple isn't an indiginous tree to the UK (apart from the field maple), so its not a cheap wood in the UK like it was in the states (where its native and dominant).

 

That doesn't answer the question I asked. I know Maple isn't a local tree to the UK. What I asked was is there a wood with sufficiently similar properties to Maple that is grown in the UK and could be used as substitute.

 

 

If production has moved to the UK because of shipping and supply problems, would it it also be better if as many as possible of materials and components used could also be made and sourced locally, rather than still to have to rely on shipping? And if global supplies are a real problem what happens when the hardware manufacturers decide that it is simpler and more cost effective to just service their local production markets in Asia and the US?

[Munurmunuh]

You know how, after a show, amateur players love to tell the performers what they ought to be doing?

[BigRedX]

1 minute ago, Ricky Rioli said:

You know how, after a show, amateur players love to tell the performers what they ought to be doing?

 

As someone who has made my own guitars in the past and used locally-sourced woods to do it too, I think I'm qualified...

 

 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

From what I have seen, Chowny are no longer in the £500 price bracket, At the upper end their instruments are over £1,000.

 

Over a £1000, yes. How much is a budget Wal?

But some of their instruments are in the £500 bracket. And that is using far east bridges which cost next to nothing. Its quite feasable to get bridges etc made at an engineering shop here, but you need a very large number ot make it viable for the tooling.

 

There is certainly a case of having models that were entirely locally sourced at the high end but I bet most people wouldn't buy them.

 

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

If production has moved to the UK because of shipping and supply problems, would it it also be better if as many as possible of materials and components used could also be made and sourced locally, rather than still to have to rely on shipping? And if global supplies are a real problem what happens when the hardware manufacturers decide that it is simpler and more cost effective to just service their local production markets in Asia and the US?

 

Obviously it would but you still need a break point where it becomes worth it. ie, you need a big warehouse to be able to import 100 guitars to get you over shipping problems, but you don't need much space to get a shipment of 100 bridges.

 

And frankly all that adds up - people will spend their whole day working out how to get a fiver off something, so price really matters. There was this forum I was on and a thread with people who were talking about a cage on a website and how cheap it was (£110 instead of £125 in other places), I looked and there was an IFrame injection attack on that site, it was compromised on the page you ordered it. People couldn't get to it on firefox as it wouldn't let them go to the page for their protection. The thread had moved on to tell people how to get round firefox blocking them getting to the site so they could order it. I tried telling them the risks, but apparently I was being elitist as I wasn't concerned about the price.

[ped]

38 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

As someone who has made my own guitars in the past and used locally-sourced woods to do it too, I think I'm qualified...

 

 

Did you make your own hardware?

[Chownybass]

15 minutes ago, ped said:

Did you make your own hardware?

 

Be nice guys!

 

So. Yes we could get our own hardware made. We've looked into it for sure. But we'd have to make LOADS of it to make it economical - tying up capital (which is stretched because of covid and brexit). So it's just not practical. Or not economical. 

 

And by all means we'll be looking at local woods where we can.

 

Yes - the goal is to make as MUCH in the UK as possible. Some things are easy (strings) and some things are hard (pickups not in a standard jazz/soapbar housing for example) But to try do that all in one go is just not practical. One step at a time. 

[BigRedX]

34 minutes ago, ped said:

Did you make your own hardware?

 

Actually for one of them I did.

 

It was in the late 70s when the information on how to make guitars was pretty much limited to Stephen Delft's series in International Musician and what little hardware that was available tended to be a random selection of parts of dubious provenance kept in a box under the counter of your local musical instrument retailer.

 

One of the instruments I made was a solid electric balalaika and for the bridge to only option was to make my own as there was nothing even remotely suitable available to buy.

[BigRedX]

23 minutes ago, Chownybass said:

 

Be nice guys!

 

So. Yes we could get our own hardware made. We've looked into it for sure. But we'd have to make LOADS of it to make it economical - tying up capital (which is stretched because of covid and brexit). So it's just not practical. Or not economical. 

 

And by all means we'll be looking at local woods where we can.

 

Yes - the goal is to make as MUCH in the UK as possible. Some things are easy (strings) and some things are hard (pickups not in a standard jazz/soapbar housing for example) But to try do that all in one go is just not practical. One step at a time. 

 

Thanks!

 

My comments weren't meant as a criticism. I was genuinely interested in how far you were going to go with sourcing locally as you had switched production to the UK.

 

Also following on from a recent thread on here about where Basschatter's instruments were made, it highlighted just how dependant all manufacturing had become on having quick and easy access to materials and components from all over the world. IMO there is a big difference between made in the UK and assembled in the UK.

 

Good luck to you with the move and thanks for keeping us all updated.

[Russ]

Sycamore is a reasonable locally-grown alternative to maple. The colour is slightly darker but has a similar grain, and can carry flame and quilt figuring. Hornbeam is also a good alternative to walnut.

 

Ash also grows in the UK, along with cherry and various grades of oak, all of which can be used in guitar building (although oak is notoriously heavy). 

 

There's quite a few companies in Germany producing guitar hardware, although I'm sure they're a lot more expensive than Far Eastern suppliers. 

 

 

 

[BigRedX]

11 minutes ago, Russ said:

Sycamore is a reasonable locally-grown alternative to maple. The colour is slightly darker but has a similar grain, and can carry flame and quilt figuring. Hornbeam is also a good alternative to walnut.

 

Ash also grows in the UK, along with cherry and various grades of oak, all of which can be used in guitar building (although oak is notoriously heavy). 

 

There's quite a few companies in Germany producing guitar hardware, although I'm sure they're a lot more expensive than Far Eastern suppliers. 

 

I used sycamore for the neck of my balalaika, and elm (it was the 70s and there was a lot of it in timber stores) for the body of a guitar

[LeftyP]

I don't understand why wood is so expensive - it does actually grow on trees!

 

Good news that the guitars are to be made in the UK.  I am getting really fed up of everything being made in the far east.  All of my grandchildren's toys are made in China and trying to source any electrical gadgets not made in China is near impossible.  I've just bought a new push chair for my latest grand daughter and was delighted to learn that it was made in Keighly, Yorkshire!  Most of the top of the range bicycles are made in either Taiwan or China (all very well made) but I was pleased to learn that my bicycle, Italian Bianchi, will be made in Italy again from next August.

 

I wish Chowny all the best.  I had an SWB-1 for a while but had to sell it because of my back problems.  The bass was just a little too heavy for comfort.  So, if they can lighten them a bit (Alder wood is lighter) and get the neck dive sorted I would certainly be interested in a Made in UK bass - in natural wood - not painted, and with black hardware.

[Chownybass]

2 hours ago, LeftyP said:

I wish Chowny all the best.  I had an SWB-1 for a while but had to sell it because of my back problems.  The bass was just a little too heavy for comfort.  So, if they can lighten them a bit (Alder wood is lighter) and get the neck dive sorted I would certainly be interested in a Made in UK bass - in natural wood - not painted, and with black hardware.

 

New bodies will be chambered. So weight will come down. 

[Chownybass]

18 hours ago, BigRedX said:

IMO there is a big difference between made in the UK and assembled in the UK.

 

Bodies and necks made, painted and finished here. Products assembled here. Strings from here. 

 

90% of the value of the bass will literally be tooled and created in the UK. I think I can say "made in the UK" 😉

 

[Musicman20]

20 hours ago, Chownybass said:

 

Be nice guys!

 

So. Yes we could get our own hardware made. We've looked into it for sure. But we'd have to make LOADS of it to make it economical - tying up capital (which is stretched because of covid and brexit). So it's just not practical. Or not economical. 

 

And by all means we'll be looking at local woods where we can.

 

Yes - the goal is to make as MUCH in the UK as possible. Some things are easy (strings) and some things are hard (pickups not in a standard jazz/soapbar housing for example) But to try do that all in one go is just not practical. One step at a time. 

This is great. I wonder if at some point you could speak to those who make their own hardware in the UK and not only promote their brand, e.g. 'featuring a high end Overwater Bridge' but also add that UK flavour to the hardware. 

 

Obviously it is all down to price and hitting a build cost you are happy with! But I personally think the price rise is very reasonable and also means you can control your QC in-house. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Musicman20

[BigRedX]

3 hours ago, Chownybass said:

 

Bodies and necks made, painted and finished here. Products assembled here. Strings from here. 

 

90% of the value of the bass will literally be tooled and created in the UK. I think I can say "made in the UK" 😉

 

Brilliant! Good on you.

 

Who's making your strings? Newtone or Rotosound?

[Chownybass]

13 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

Brilliant! Good on you.

 

Who's making your strings? Newtone or Rotosound?

 

Rotosound. With a few exceptions where we're using GHS.

[Chienmortbb]

On 04/11/2021 at 15:58, Russ said:

although oak is notoriously heavy

There is a reason oak is rarely used for guitars and I cannot remember why exactly. I will be back with either a reason or apology.

[Grahambythesea]

I applaud Chowney’s decision and he is right to say one step at a time. As regards woods, Robert Godin  may have lead the way, on some of his acoustics, particularly the Simon & Patrick brand he used local woods including cherry wood. If Fender can use Pine, why not?  We have plenty of pine in the U.K. and some other fruit woods may be as good as cherry.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

On 04/11/2021 at 12:52, Woodinblack said:

Maple isn't an indiginous tree to the UK (apart from the field maple), so its not a cheap wood in the UK like it was in the states (where its native and dominant).

 

No, but we have vast quantities of sycamore growing here (native to southern Europe).

 

The Americans just count it as a type of maple, sometimes 'sycamore maple' but usually just maple.

 

The timber is functionally and visually the same, at least to the likes of us.

 

It's likely that many 'maple' basses are in fact sycamore.

 

https://shop.exotichardwoods.co.uk/sycamore-guitar-neck-blank-type-a.html

Edited November 5, 2021 by Stub Mandrel