New bass or new nut and setup?

[kwmlondon]

Morning the basschat.

 

About a year ago I wanted to try out a 5-string, got myself an Ibanez SR505 from a fellow basschatter. It was cheap and I've taken my time getting to grips with it but I've found I really like the extra range it gives me and I treat it very much like a different instrument to a 4-string.

 

It got a cheap set of gear4music strings (I didn't want to spend a lot of money on something I may not like) and invested in £35 on a setup and ended up with a pretty good bass.

 

I really like some things about it - the neck is sublime, the sound is lovely, it's light and comfortable but on the downside I find I only ever use one tone - I don't like the eq much. Also, you get some choking on the first fret - I think it needs a new nut. Now, a decent set of strings, a new nut, getting someone who knows what they're doing to fit it, we're talking about £125 all-in on an instrument that cost me £260. Would I be better off selling it and investing in something better?

 

I don't have much experience of 5-strings but I love the thin neck on the SR505 and the modern sound it has. Seeing how much I like this one would a higher-end Ibanez be a good way to go?

 

What would you do? Spend the money and impvoe a bass you like already or put the money towards an alltogether better instrument.

[thodrik]

If you are getting choking on the first fret then it potentially calls into question the initial set up.

 

Without seeing the bass, the choking could relate to the neck relief (or lack thereof) or the string height not being high enough, both of which can be cured by a revised set up. Failing that it might be a high fret rather than a badly cut nut. It might be the nut but I definitely wouldn't buy a new nut until I absolutely thought it was required. 

I would initially try raising the string height slightly to see if that cures the choking problem. If if does then you will have solved the problem without it costing you any money. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by thodrik

[BassAdder60]

Personally on a low to mid priced bass I would sell and move on 

 

Perhaps look at Yamaha or Sterling Sub as a similar priced bass and decent too.

 

My personal fav is MIM Player Series PBass ( perfect bass for me ) 

[kwmlondon]

11 minutes ago, thodrik said:

If you are getting choking on the first fret then it potentially calls into question the initial set up.

 

Without seeing the bass, the choking could relate to the neck relief (or lack thereof) or the string height not being high enough, both of which can be cured by a revised set up. Failing that it might be a high fret rather than a badly cut nut. It might be the but I definitely wouldn't buy a new nut until I absolutely thought it was required. 

I would initially try raising the string height slightly to see if that cures the choking problem. If if does then you will have solved the problem without it costing you any money. 

Yeah, I tried that but it didn't sort the problem out, fine after the first fret - you're right, the second fret could need attention but I don't want to shell out for a full on dressing on what's really a cheap bass. I could just tighten the neck a bit, I guess, I'm just very wary about messing with the tension.

[Reggaebass]

I’m no expert btw, but have you tried packing the strings up at the nut to see if it’s that 🙂

[kwmlondon]

11 minutes ago, BassAdder27 said:

Personally on a low to mid priced bass I would sell and move on 

 

Perhaps look at Yamaha or Sterling Sub as a similar priced bass and decent too.

 

My personal fav is MIM Player Series PBass ( perfect bass for me ) 

Yep, I've been very taken with Dingwall basses. I found the fan-fretting a bit odd but the sound is amazing and I recon I could get my head around the whole multiscale thing. I've already got a Musicman Stingray and a bitsa-Jazz so I love that the Ibanez does clean, HiFi modern sounds that the other two don't. Yes, I'd love a precision but I can get close-enough with the 'ray with its LaBella flats or a bit of messing about with the Jazz.

Edited October 26, 2021 by kwmlondon

[kwmlondon]

8 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I’m no expert btw, but have you tried packing the strings up at the nut to see if it’s that 🙂

I thought of this, considered cutting some of the inside of a biro to make some sleeve for the strings to go above the nut. If anyone's got any better suggestions for a quick-fix then I'd give it a go.

[fingerz]

Have you tried letting off some tension in your truss rod?

[kwmlondon]

2 minutes ago, fingerz said:

Have you tried letting off some tension in your truss rod?

Nop. I really don't like messing with a truss rod. I know it's a cheap bass but I still don't like fiddling around with the truss rod, tend to go to it as a last resort!

 

Also, I really find I don't ever use the active eq on the bass or deviate from the middle blend of the pickups. It may as well just have an off/on button really.

[fingerz]

PS. If you have a buzz/choke when you are fretting the instrument, it's very very unlikely that the nut is the problem

[fingerz]

1 minute ago, kwmlondon said:

Nop. I really don't like messing with a truss rod. I know it's a cheap bass but I still don't like fiddling around with the truss rod, tend to go to it as a last resort!

 

Also, I really find I don't ever use the active eq on the bass or deviate from the middle blend of the pickups. It may as well just have an off/on button really.

 

You really should it's probably a big/sole reason for your problem. It's what it's there for. Get the correct and well fitting tool for whatever the head of the truss rod is, and back it off a touch. It may take a little time to settle, but usually it's instant. It's that time of year when necks do some moving anyway.

 

If it's reassuring, consider how a luthier could possibly do it any differently to you...?! Just go very slowly. It's what it's there for. 

 

You want to back it off, and I would start with just a fraction of a turn A) For your confidence and B) Why not. Slow and steady wins the race!

[kwmlondon]

7 minutes ago, fingerz said:

 

You really should it's probably a big/sole reason for your problem. It's what it's there for. Get the correct and well fitting tool for whatever the head of the truss rod is, and back it off a touch. It may take a little time to settle, but usually it's instant. It's that time of year when necks do some moving anyway.

 

If it's reassuring, consider how a luthier could possibly do it any differently to you...?! Just go very slowly. It's what it's there for. 

 

You want to back it off, and I would start with just a fraction of a turn A) For your confidence and B) Why not. Slow and steady wins the race!

Cool, thanks - will do. It could just be due to going into winter, heating on etc.

[PaulThePlug]

40 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

I thought of this, considered cutting some of the inside of a biro to make some sleeve for the strings to go above the nut. If anyone's got any better suggestions for a quick-fix then I'd give it a go.

Which String or All Strings?

Start by just a thin bit of waxy card or plastic shim, yogurt pot? just to rest in the bottom of the nut slot...

See if that fixes it, if so lots of Youtube stuff about building up the nut with super glue and baking soda. I'd start there as its a free fix to the bass you've got.

I love the Ibby SR shape and it is all about the neck...

If you dont like the EQ maybe bypass or remove it and go passive with a @KiOgon loom. VVTT... VVT, VBT... coil pickup selecting and or coil switching.

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by PaulThePlug

[kendall]

The truss rod and neck on the SR are pretty responsive.  If you make a small tweak - 1/4 turn or less, retune and leave for an hour, I find the neck has shifted sufficiently to resolve the relief issue.  I had this on my SR500 when I changed strings.  Loosen truss rod a 1/4 turn (left when facing the truss rod) to increase the neck relief and retune.  Should be good.

 

PS>  Always fancied an sr500 5 string - so if this doesn't work for you - feel free to give it me and I'll look after it - indefinitely!  ;0)

Edited October 26, 2021 by kendall

[kwmlondon]

10 minutes ago, PaulThePlug said:

Which String or All Strings?

Start by just a thin bit of waxy card or plastic shim, yogurt pot? just to rest in the bottom of the nut slot...

See if that fixes it, if so lots of Youtube stuff about building up the nut with super glue and baking soda. I'd start there as its a free fix to the bass you've got.

I love the Ibby SR shape and it is all about the neck...

Bin the EQ and go passive with a @KiOgon loom.

 

Thanks, very helpful - will have a go. It's the first string, 3rd and 4th.

 

In terms of the sound, I do actually quite like the active tone I just don't really like the eq. It'd be nice to have a passive option, I think the newer ones have that. Honestly though, I'm not going to go messing around ripping out the electronics! I've had a KiOgon loom before though, his stuff is excellent.

Edited October 26, 2021 by kwmlondon

[gary mac]

I've not read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been asked. Is the choking when fretted or playing open strings. Are all of the strings affected?

 

 

[bassman7755]

1 hour ago, kwmlondon said:

I thought of this, considered cutting some of the inside of a biro to make some sleeve for the strings to go above the nut. If anyone's got any better suggestions for a quick-fix then I'd give it a go.

 

You probably need something thinner that that, a bit of thin paper as an experiment. If that is the problem I then it should be a very easy fix to raise the nut slightly: heat gun or iron to release the glue, glue a thin wooden shim underneath and re glue nut. You can even build up an individual string height using superglue and some filler like cotton wool. Theres loads of youtube vids on both.

Edited October 26, 2021 by bassman7755

[fingerz]

As I say, if it's happening when you're fretting the neck, I wouldn't expect your nut to be a factor in this problem, in this instance.

 

 

Good luck with the truss rod, I'm hopeful that will make a big difference. Let us know.

[kwmlondon]

1 hour ago, bassman7755 said:

 

You probably need something thinner that that, a bit of thin paper as an experiment. If that is the problem I then it should be a very easy fix to raise the nut slightly: heat gun or iron to release the glue, glue a thin wooden shim underneath and re glue nut. You can even build up an individual string height using superglue and some filler like cotton wool. Theres loads of youtube vids on both.

Honestly, I don't like messing about with that stuff. I can tweak things but the idea of going at my bass with a heat gun, na-ahh. I know my limits! Cheers for the advice tho.

[kwmlondon]

1 hour ago, fingerz said:

As I say, if it's happening when you're fretting the neck, I wouldn't expect your nut to be a factor in this problem, in this instance.

 

 

Good luck with the truss rod, I'm hopeful that will make a big difference. Let us know.

Yep, starting to sound like it. Especially as, now I think about it, the issue's only really come up recently. I just didn't think the problem that close to the nut would be a truss rod thing.

[uk_lefty]

3 hours ago, PaulThePlug said:

go passive with a @KiOgon loom.

Seconded! If you love the neck and feel of the bass, you don't use the active, why not supercharge the passive? I've got one of these genius looms in a very "cheap" but still good quality bass and it has taken it to an entirely different level. The electronics were weedy, really thin, and just upgrading the loom has made it a monster. A very musical monster.

 

Sounds like you like the bass enough to rescue it. If it does only one sound, but you love that one sound, sort out the choking and keep loving the bass! No guarantee you will feel the same about any other bass.

[Reggaebass]

Sometimes just a 1/4 turn on the truss rod nut can make a big difference , it might be all it needs, the main thing is that it’s nothing serious, just a bit of tweaking 🙂

[kwmlondon]

18 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

Seconded! If you love the neck and feel of the bass, you don't use the active, why not supercharge the passive? I've got one of these genius looms in a very "cheap" but still good quality bass and it has taken it to an entirely different level. The electronics were weedy, really thin, and just upgrading the loom has made it a monster. A very musical monster.

 

Sounds like you like the bass enough to rescue it. If it does only one sound, but you love that one sound, sort out the choking and keep loving the bass! No guarantee you will feel the same about any other bass.

True, true.

[fingerz]

42 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

Yep, starting to sound like it. Especially as, now I think about it, the issue's only really come up recently. I just didn't think the problem that close to the nut would be a truss rod thing.

A neck that's too straight or back bowed can present itself anywhere on the fingerboard depending on a few factors in construction etc. It happening on the first few frets is usually a sign that the instrument is actually well set up (apart from the truss rod tension). So I'm hopeful things will come back into check with a bit less tension for you.

 

A good way to check this is to fret the first fret with your left hand, and fret the 15th (or around there) fret with the little finger on your right hand. You're effectively creating a straight edge across the frets then. You can tap the string around the 10-12 frets and notice if the string is tight against the frets, or if there's a little gap there. The gap tells you that the neck has relief (is curved/concaved). If it's tight flat then the neck is too straight. I personally run my necks really almost straight, as do lots of guitarists I know. Then get the bridge saddles adjusted accordingly. This gives you nice tension and low action. But it's all completely personal, as long as your not getting too much choking it's totally up to you. Marcus Millers sound, you can hear the strings 'rasping' on the frets for example.

 

 

The nut is crucial for intonation, fretting hand string height, resonance transfer to the neck, and obviously open strings. Any buzzes once you are fretting with your left hand, are very unlikely to be nut related, sonically.

 

 

Hope that's helpful 

[Boodang]

If the  neck is sublime and it's comfortable to play,  I would say you've found a keeper. I'm a big believer in tweaking basses to get them where you want for your needs. 

Sounds like time to have a Graph Tec nut installed (I get them put on all my basses) and at the same time getting a setup done. If you don't like the eq then change it out. Many options, my current favs being East and Audere. 

Might sound like a lot but if you end up with a bass that plays well and sounds well then you're onto a winner.