Happy Jack's Mike Lull Necks

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

 

That would be me, and there was a perfectly logical reason for that choice at the time. 

 

That reason is now gone, courtesy of £16,000 worth of eye operations last year, which is why those super-sized dots no longer serve any useful purpose.

 

Ah fair enough that sounds like a good reason. 

[Andyjr1515]

A 'AAA' quartersawn maple blank and ebony fingerboard for the fretless neck should be with me early next week, as should an 8mm taper plug cutter bit to cut the rest of the maple plugs (with proof of concept done, life's too short to slim the rest of them by hand!). 

 

I've just got to get hold of some amber stain and, once the plugs are in and the neck finish-sanded, I can start the refinishing of the neck.  We're going for a silky-smooth-and-organic tru-oil slurry and buff.  The headstock top and back and fretboard top are all untouched and will not need any refinish. 

[Andyjr1515]

Well, Axminster excelled themselves - this arrived this morning

 

And so by this evening, all the plug holes are filled.  They will show up more once the stain and finish has been put on - but they merge in better than the black epoxy

 

Next job is to find the teeny envelope with the Luminlay rods in...

[Andyjr1515]

The Luminlays come in stick form and - as long as you have an accurate brad-point drill - are very easy to fit.  You drill the hole a few mm, check fit the stick, pop a drop of superglue at the end, wait a couple of minutes and then razor-saw it flush.

 

At the neck pocket, the body would overlap the larger dots and so I will use the smaller size.  The end fret will have to stay as a black dot as the overhang isn't deep enough to take a larger drill hole - but generally the end of the fretboard is easy to find even in the dark : 

 

And with a final sand, done:

 

So just waiting for the stain to arrive and I can finish this one off

 

 

[Happy Jack]

20 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

At the neck pocket, the body would overlap the larger dots and so I will use the smaller size.  The end fret will have to stay as a black dot as the overhang isn't deep enough to take a larger drill hole - but generally the end of the fretboard is easy to find even in the dark : 

 

 

What on Earth makes you think I'll ever get up that high?

 

😂

[wateroftyne]

What a fascinating thread this is. Thanks, Andy.

[Andyjr1515]

So, with the extra Chestnut Spirit Stain (Yew) arrived, here is the cunning plan:

 

- Jack ideally would like a 'silky smooth but still feels like wood' finish at the back of the neck.  Normally, builders would favour a 'slurry and buff' application of Tru-oil, which achieves just that.

 

- The conventional wisdom is that you can't stain a slurry and buff bit of wood, because the slurrying (using wet and dry abrasive where the wet is Tru-oil) will just sand the stain right off.  But when did conventional wisdom...nay, wisdom...ever come into my builds and mods??

 

- The back and sides will be finished, but stopping short of the headstock and the concealed info on the back of the heel:

 

- The stains I will be mixing are both Chestnut Spirit Stains (Yellow and Yew) and will be a trial-and-sandoffagainifitdoesntwork process to try to get a colour that is at least in the right ballpark (it won't be an exact match)

- First I will need to make sure that every last bit of the fiendish and invisible primer spray that a lot of commercial builders use is off, because I need bare fresh wood for the stain to soak into

- The fretboard and headstock front will be unaffected:

 

 

It should be stained and the first couple of applications of the Andyjr1515wingingit method done before the end of today.

 

The other bit of news is that, in about an hour's time, the timber for @Happy Jack 's fretless neck should be arriving (although probably a week before I will be able to start work on that one)  

 

  

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Andyjr1515

[Thunderbird]

I do love following your threads Andy always interesting and great work 

[MacDaddy]

just found this thread. Awesome work! 😎

[Andyjr1515]

The amber in the original finish will have been sprayed over the clear primer - and any 'proper' builder would strip the whole thing down and replicate that   But then you have issues of losing all of the decals, etc etc.  And I don't have any spray expertise or equipment anyway   

 

But also, we are trying to get a much more slinky feel to the neck - which is why I'm going this route.  Stains, though, have their own foibles, not least the degree to which the adsorption differs between end grain, straight grain, knots and ripples in the timber.

 

Which is a long way of going about saying, 'there's something a bit odd with the stain at the volute'   I may be able to sort this or it may turn out to be a case of 'it is what it is'.  The nice thing about this method is that you can work further on particular areas even when the rest of it is finished.  

 

Here it is, with the first sealing coat of oil on it (I will add 2-3 of these and then slurry and buff the hardened oil as part of the process).  Trust me - it works

 

The finished neck will be satin rather than this coat which has a touch more gloss in it.  Colour match-wise, it is pretty close when you see it against the fretboard:

 

As the saying goes, maybe 'close enough for jazz'?

 

And then, finally, the timber has arrived for the fretless neck from David Dyke:

 

In absolute terms, you don't get a lot for your £100+...but in relative terms, this is beautiful timber hand picked by David's team.  And for necks, you can't take chances.  I now just have to make sure I don't massacre it...  

 

[Happy Jack]

42 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

 

Reckon that headstock shape needs work ...

 

 

 

 

😉

[Andyjr1515]

Nah...close but no cigar.  I put a couple of coats of oil on and then, this morning, slurry and buffed it up.

 

The good news is that it feels great!

 

The bad news is that the stain is acting like a coating rather than a stain and that isn't what I'm after at all.  For some reason I thought that the Chestnut stains didn't do that (I have used them before a number of times but not on an amber neck) but they do and it compromises the effect I'm after.  So off it has to come!   

 

And so - although it will probably be a few days before I get back to it - I'm going to sand back to bare wood and go back to my preferred stain - pen ink.  Yes - good old fountain pen ink!  Being water based, ink really does soak into the wood surface rather than sit on top of it.  I've used pen ink many times and there are great advantages: there are a myriad of colours; you also don't have to pre-mix the colours to get a particular shade - you can literally wipe on one colour and then wipe on the second colour; it is very cheap and so you can afford to try multiple combinations without breaking the bank.  The only disadvantage is that there are some colours that fade - but there are fountain pen forums (yes - really) and some where folks do fade tests on a makers' full ranges (we are talking dozens and dozens), so it is pretty straightforward to avoid the ones that fade.

 

@TheGreek 's 'Silk' bass, from a good many years ago, was done with ink...still orange, Mick?

 

 

I have yellow and amber inks here so will be able to redo @Happy Jack 's neck as soon as I get back to it and then move onto the fretless 

[Happy Jack]

I'm beginning to wonder if there's any aspect of life that does not have a forum ...

 

[LukeFRC]

41 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

preferred stain - pen ink.  Yes - good old fountain pen ink!  Being water based, ink really does soak into the wood surface rather than sit on top of it.  I've used pen ink many times and there are great advantages: there are a myriad of colours; you also don't have to pre-mix the colours to get a particular shade - you can literally wipe on one colour and then wipe on the second colour; it is very cheap and so you can afford to try multiple combinations without breaking the bank.  The only disadvantage is that there are some colours that fade - but there are fountain pen forums (yes - really) and some where folks do fade tests on a makers' full ranges (we are talking dozens and dozens), so it is pretty straightforward to avoid the ones that fade.

I ended up working out a similar thing when I did my build - but used my fine art background and ended up looking at pigment based watercolours (not dye based) - as for art there’s obvious needs to create light fast colours - these are fantastic and super concentrated - not crazy expensive either https://www.docmartins.com/collections/hydrus-fine-art-watercolor-bottles

I wiped on with a sponge in thin layers (like you would watercolours) and did a dark blue to black blue burst finish - topped with chestnuts wipe on laquer

 

tbh writing this makes me want to make something again in a brighter colour!!

 

[Andyjr1515]

2 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I ended up working out a similar thing when I did my build - but used my fine art background and ended up looking at pigment based watercolours (not dye based) - as for art there’s obvious needs to create light fast colours - these are fantastic and super concentrated - not crazy expensive either https://www.docmartins.com/collections/hydrus-fine-art-watercolor-bottles

I wiped on with a sponge in thin layers (like you would watercolours) and did a dark blue to black blue burst finish - topped with chestnuts wipe on laquer

 

tbh writing this makes me want to make something again in a brighter colour!!

 

Very interesting indeed!  Thanks - I'll investigate, especially next time I'm after something 'strident'! 

 

And yes, paper/wood is the same material and so the characteristics of inks - and watercolours, which I'd never thought about - on the two media will be similar.  Certainly, the two or three where I've used red calligraphy ink should last at least as long as the Lindisfarne Gospels or I will, indeed, demand my money back!  In the first 8 of the 1300 years, they do indeed seem to be just as bright as the day they were done.  I'm optimistic of the result   

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Very interesting indeed!  Thanks - I'll investigate, especially next time I'm after something 'strident'! 

 

And yes, paper/wood is the same material and so the characteristics of inks - and watercolours, which I'd never thought about - on the two media will be similar.  Certainly, the two or three where I've used red calligraphy ink should last at least as long as the Lindisfarne Gospels or I will, indeed, demand my money back!  In the first 8 of the 1300 years, they do indeed seem to be just as bright as the day they were done.  I'm optimistic of the result   

it's about finding a pigment rather than a dye based ink/stain... I enjoyed the fact that with art stuff it was actually tested for lightfastness by the makers...

This was my body... it went darker than I wanted the grain was only as apparent in bright sunlight and you can see the spots I rubbed through. 

[Andyjr1515]

And so, back from grandparenting duties, back to the necks and back to bare wood!

 

 

And a second go, this time with the inks.  Colour match isn't quite as close but it is much, much more even and still feels just as silky smooth:

 

Time to move onto the fretless!

 

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

Well, it doesn't half make it easier when you have an exact scale template to hand

 

The maple is AAA (top) grade from David Dyke - it's important for a single piece neck, especially a 5 string, that the grain is completely straight and the timber length is aberration-free.  I've lined up the neck exactly to the grain direction - the green line at the top on the above photo is where I will plane the slight angle off so my datum is also exactly in line with the grain:

 

With around a mm oversize, all except that datum length is cut out on the bandsaw.  The extra lines you see here are David Dyke's pencil template lines for them to position and cut the blank to.  Happily, I know which one's are mine (and hence the green pen!) :

 

 

So why that datum face?  This, being parallel to the centre line, is what I will use - running along the guide fence on the router table - to cut the truss rod slot

 

 

Well then, pretty much done.  Agreed it's a bit on the chunky side, but I think @Happy Jack will soon get used to it once I've hammered those 6" nails in...  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Andyjr1515

[Happy Jack]

I know I said that I have an agricultural playing style, but ... but ... but ...

 

😂

[Andyjr1515]

Two things have happened that should speed things up a bit.

 

First is that the main build that is running alongside this job has got to the "apply finish and wait for it to dry" stage (isn't self-promotion a wonderful thing  ).

 

The second is that the truss rod has (eventually!) arrived and I can now cut the slot:

 

It is a modern two-way rod and will be fitted with the hex adjuster at the rear in the same position as the fretted neck.  A note for the observant, by the way - the rod when fitted will be the other way up, with the steel plate side uppermost otherwise there is a frequently suffered scenario of tighten rod, hmmm...still too much relief...tighten more...hmmm...doesn't seem any better...tighten...BANG (as the rod energetically bursts its way through the fretboard   ).

 

I say this because - for the same reason that I've photo'd it this way up as it won't balance on its correct side - many of the sales web sites (including much respected ones) show the rod the wrong way up and almost none provide fitting instructions...so often new builders fit them the wrong way round, at which point 'righty-tighty' becomes 'righty-CRIKEY!' 

 

The fretboard blank has been cut and planed to size...

 

...and next job is the radiussing.  We are going for 12", the same as the fretted.

 

 

The dastardly plan is that both the slot cut and the radiussing will be done before the footer comes on

 

[Happy Jack]

It had never even occurred to me that it was possible to fit a trussrod upside down. 🙄

[Andyjr1515]

It is well recognised in guitar and bass building circles that hand radiussing ebony fretboards is:

- the quickest way to insanity    (takes days but insanity is assured)

- likely to result in a tapered or skewed profile down the board however hard you try

 

I built myself a router rig a few years ago - better but not perfect - then invested in the excellent G&W router jig a year or so ago.  It's b****y wonderful

 

After about 25 minutes, I'd got the shape roughed out over two passes

 

Then another 15 minutes with a radius block to just remove the router cutter lines:

 

And done

 

[Happy Jack]

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

 

The dastardly plan is that both the slot cut and the radiussing will be done before the footer comes on

 

I do hope you're not a Chelsea fan ...

[TheGreek]

On 20/11/2021 at 16:18, Andyjr1515 said:

@TheGreek 's 'Silk' bass, from a good many years ago, was done with ink...still orange, Mick?

 

 

 

Very much so....whenever it comes out and I show people the photos of how I bought it they don't believe me. I tell them, "that's the wonder that is @Andyjr1515".

[Andyjr1515]

 

 

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

I do hope you're not a Chelsea fan ...

 

Not necessarily   

 

This afternoon was Buxton's (relatively close to home) sterling effort to get to the next round of the FA Cup  (they didn't )

 

Those who've seen my previous builds will know that I detest routers.  But - there are some jobs where, really, only a router will do.  And one of those is the truss rod slot.

 

 

And done:

 

So next will be planing a small angle  for the headstock and then doing a Fender-style carve on it.  The billet isn't deep enough to be able to do a proper angled stock and dispense with the break angle compromise of the Fender design but it will probably give me a couple of degrees of help which might mean that I can more easily fit a Wal type or bar type of string retainer rather than the button type fitted on the fretted neck.  Visually, it will pretty much look the same as the Lull.

 

And then hand-fitting the heel end to the body neck pocket, after which I will fit the fretboard and start the neck carve.