REEEVVVEEERRRRBBbbbbbb;;;;-------- ' . . What are you using ?

[funkgod]

Hi all not much going on this topic, yet it seems its something we all use.

i have found Reverb for recording and bass abit puzzling and end up just putting in

what ever sounds god at the time and what ever i have plugged in at that time.

i never really gave it allot of thought, but its no doubt more of a science than one would think

once you get into it.

some say dont mix reverbs in tracks, some say do bla bla bla and so it goes on

if i can just narrow down this whole conversation to two things in the same track

1, vocals

2, Brass ( or for you maybe something else other than vocals)

 

i have as said just use what ever reverb i have at the time for both

so some reverb on vocals and then the same reverb on brass but just turned up slightly more.

lately i have been doing some testing with different reverbs for vocals and brass

so on my mackie D8B i have some nice mackie verbs and some tc reverbs but i also have some outboard gear like...

an old quadraverb

TC M-one

TC Fireworx.

so im trying different patches on both vocals and brass, and im now thinking it was worth the effort, the mix i thinks sounds better with the two different ones, more eeerrr dedicated shell we say.

so im trying different pre delay values so the brass stab for eg still has the power at the begining of the note with no reverb but then comes in after the inital BAA stab, again tightend up my brass mix no end.

 Another point, if you are recording in say 24 bit and use old reverbs say from the quadra verb yes it does give you that late 80s early 90s sound as it was used alot then, i can hear it because i know i did it, but is it really that impotent that someone would notice against more modern verbs ?

im just throwing this out there to see what others are using and why to get a better understanding on it all.

so if you have have any links of just you using a particular type of reverb on something please put them up here for us all to hear and if you have the time go some way to explain what and why,

also reading this https://musicproductionnerds.com/best-hardware-reverb

some expensive verbs out there, has anyone one got an expensive unit they can do a straight  A and B test with it and using something we all would all likely know to get a better idea of what them extra £ sounds like ?

 

cheers all.

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by funkgod

[BigRedX]

It depends whether you are using reverb as a special effect or simply to give all the instruments the sense that they are playing in the same space.

 

In the first case use whatever will give you the sound you are after. Apply it to the instruments/track you are wanting to effect. A lot of the time in this case "character" will be more important than "realism".

 

In the second case pretty much anything that came with your DAW will do. Stick it on a bus and route all the tracks to it in varying amounts.

 

And stop over-thinking it. Most classic (pre mid-80s) recordings were done with whatever reverb device was available in the studio usually a spring or plate, and often it would simply be a spare stereo tape recorder giving an echo with reverb effect. These devices had very little in the way of user adjustable parameters. You could change the level of the reverb signal vs the dry one(s) and if you had a spare channel free on the desk you could apply EQ to the "wet" signal. But that would be it. Perhaps if you went to a very expensive studio they would have a room/space dedicated to producing reverb that could be be mic'd up in different ways, but that room still had a basic "character" that couldn't really be altered.

 

If you are using plugs-ins start with something very simple and basic and only progress onto the more "complex" ones if you find the simple one doesn't offer the adjustments you really need. Don't go loading up Space Designer (or what your DAW's equivalent is) and start auditioning 3rd party IRs because that way you'll never make any decisions, or get your mixes finished. Most of the time something that offers control over reverb time and pre-delay followed by a decent channel EQ will give you all the adjustments you need.

[WinterMute]

Hardware reverbs have no advantages over good plug-ins IMO, as they pretty much all use convolution or modelling these days, and unless you are going to invest in a GBS drainpipe or find an EMT  stereo plate in working nick, they will sound, or can be made to sound, much the same.

 

I'm a big fan of Altiverb for convoluted room and space reverb, not so much for copies of older digital units, I have the UAD2 versions of the Lexicon 224, which is brilliantly grungy, the Ocean Way Studios and the Capitol Chambers and I have Waves Abbey Road Plates, which I like a lot.

 

However, I find combining reverbs to be a very productive process, very often I'll add a little bit of shimmer from a ARP plate into a darker Ocean Way room, or mess up the tail of one of the Capitol chambers with a delayed spring. I also use the old Kate Bush trick of triggering a longer reverb with a tight room, which allows the room to act as a complex early reflection for a simpler tail, she used to use the Quantec Room Simulator to drive the Lexicon 480 or 224, but you can use pretty much anything that'll tighten down to 50-60ms RT. You get a tight, bright space and a softer RT, which serves to place a vocal or guitar into the mix but still allow that distancing effect.

[VTypeV4]

Your TC M1 is still a great unit despite it's slightly vintage status - I own two and still use them regularly.. I've never struggled to get an appropriate and great sounding from the M1 but found they really shine with bigger 'soundscape' type reverbs. They're equally at home in both live and studio situations although it has been a while since I've used them live.

 

Staying with the TC theme, I also have a HOF 2 pedal that I use exclusively for 'shimmer' type reverbs.

 

I have several vintage Yamaha SPX 90 units too which are good for a certain sound as well as some slightly newer REV500s which are far more realistic and a very capable unit.

 

On the software front, I rather like the Valhalla plugin although the native D-Verb in Tools and Silver / Platinum Reverb in Logic have some pretty good starting points too. I've found the pre-sets need a bit of tweaking but they certainly are more than useable.

 

Regarding brass, you might find a degree of short delay (~170ms and low feedback) allied to your favourite reverb is a winner. Personally, I've found the delay can really help it 'pop' in a mix even if it sounds a bit off when in solo.. Most importantly, experiment and see where it takes you.

 

 

[funkgod]

thanks for that guys,

 

big red, yea i have as said also i normally also just gone for what i had, and has done me for years, no one ever commenting on it, "over-thinking it" ahh no im beyond that now to the point of no return. i think i have seen the light .. more later..cheers for all that

 

V type v4, i have also a boss rv3 pedal which i love on bass as it was the only pedal boss did that had reverb and D, delay in the same box befor they decided to split them and sell you two boxes, its a great pedal which i have also used in parts on tracks as in insert, good results for what it is. yes i do like the M-one its building block lcd makes so much sense and so easy to use. regarding brass.. read later in this ... thanks

 

wintermute..

no i dont use plugins, i know im missing out here on some great stuff but my studio is all hard ware, not a pc in site, ( except the D8B HDR brains) though i do bounce things over to a cubase on my laptop now and again to "dabble" trying things, the kate bush trick is a new one on me i will check it out, but yea getting into multi verbs

 

ok ... this weekend iv had a good read on the net trying a few things,

out of this weekends lessons two things iv learned which most of you will already know and for those that do not, its worth a try.

1 if using say 1 reverb and then set all your instruments through it maybe at different times right through the track, then more of the track will have that same reverb right through giving it all a more back sound.

2 i have been trying this weekend using automation on the fx ( lucky my desk is fully automated, though cubase protools reaper ect all have this as std) to bring  in the reverb as and when needed, but then get rid of it, so the overall mix is more dry sounding and more up front.

interesting...

so you say ...isn't that the same as just adding reverb to the parts as and where needed ?

yes .. but.. using automation a bit more cleverly not only can you just bring it in when you want but also change the amount and use the dynamics of it also as the track goes on, and to all the various parts, so as in the OP i can add longer washes on vocals and shorter ones on the brass giving the brass a more up front stab to the sound, all using the same reverb patch, so sounding more consistent in the track (? ..we will see)..so not the same as washing all the whole track on the same setting.....clever,

for gods sake don't ask me anything else on this as im just still on the new idea of it all, but can see the potential of it, more later. but got that from reading somewhere in this..

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by funkgod

[WinterMute]

If you're lucky enough to have hardware, good for you, my favourite box was always the AMS RMX16, it's simplicity was it's strength. The 500 series version is very good indeed.

 

If I had the room, I'd definitely be looking for an EMT stereo plate with a valve pre-amp, but I don't think the lovely wife would let me sacrifice the utility room to install it.

 

I'm always very wary of adding reverb to bass parts, occasionally I'll put a bit of short room on a bass to tie it into a rhythm section, and the kick sometimes gets a touch too, depending on the genre and style of mix, but LF in reverbs muddies mixes, I always use an HPF set to around 100hz on reverb returns, it stops the LF in the track getting too waffly.

 

Otherwise, add to taste, but remember that you are adding the illusion of space rather than real space, and what you are really doing is adding another audio layer to your mixes, one the needs treating in exactly the same way as anther guitar or keyboard part. Sparse tracks can deal with longer RT, denser mixes need shorter RT. Increasing pre-delay or early reflection levels makes a reverb space sound bigger without needing longer RT.

Edited November 8, 2021 by WinterMute
typo

[funkgod]

just to add to this, after abit of scooting around the net, and talking to a few old hands in the know i went round to one studio to a guys who has done allot over the years, worked for  universal for 18 of them and produced loads of bands right up to sessions with prince, learn't a lot there, so... out of it came a cheap option  with an "old but gold" tag not as high deff as most but what it adds im converted and i now love it and in the process of redoing songs i have to use it on a few things.

Ok im sure loads of you already know this, but this is a new piece of equipment for me, never heard of it before till a few weeks ago.

YAMAHA REV7

picked this up for £140, when it arrived it was just this horrid hissing noise, and the eq did not work and the vol in pot and fx blend only worked in parts, and there was no LCD back light, ..friggin ebay again ! !... i was very pi@@ed off to say the least so was going to send it back and hunt for another but the seller said he would refund me £70, so thought i would take a go at it,

Thank god in terms of build quality its top draw for loads of reasons so great to work on,

changed the eq pots

the in pot

the mix pot

the o/p BP caps

the power supply caps and the 400v one

and the LCD .

total cost about £20.

got it all up and running fine, and what can i say...

I love it, its been a real eye opener for me.

 

all parameters are right there on the front you dont have to go through menus which i hate and one or two you don't see on reverbs. some presets are very usable

the one for brass is perfect for what i want

when using the snare drum one its clean, you don't get that boomy noise right after the snare as in a few of the TC reverbs i have been using, it also has the "eq" which only effects the we sig, its parametric

so ....

low, swept freq and level ..

mid , swept freq and level ..

hi, swept freq and level ..

right there on the front

so a little hi mid and hi  on the snare really makes it "pop"

 

i have done quite a few  "A" and "B"s with other gear i have and its a horses for courses thing,

i don't want to blab on about it but for one more setting...

SLAP BASS........... heaven right there on preset number 19 electric bass A,

iv never come across anything quite like this before,  im sure there is something out there that will do it, but this when playing a slap line

seems to take all the air and noise out between the notes , but... not like a gate, you cant hear any thing going on and off

  great tho hear, im not sure what is going on here but is worth having just for that for the price of a comp peddle, 

anyway still exploring its possibilities.

these were out in 1985 and were used in loads of studios on loads of tracks im told and are still in loads of studios, just for "that" sound,

check them out but for £150 .....well about £90 after fixing it i can say its prob my best investment of last year.

im now using it on the next two tracks im releasing on brass, snare, flute, strings and will have a go on vocals see how it gets on.

keep yall posted on how i get on with it.

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/yamaha-rev-7-digital-reverberator

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by funkgod

[funkgod]

On 08/11/2021 at 10:22, WinterMute said:

If you're lucky enough to have hardware, good for you, my favourite box was always the AMS RMX16, it's simplicity was it's strength. The 500 series version is very good indeed.

 

If I had the room, I'd definitely be looking for an EMT stereo plate with a valve pre-amp, but I don't think the lovely wife would let me sacrifice the utility room to install it.

 

I'm always very wary of adding reverb to bass parts, occasionally I'll put a bit of short room on a bass to tie it into a rhythm section, and the kick sometimes gets a touch too, depending on the genre and style of mix, but LF in reverbs muddies mixes, I always use an HPF set to around 100hz on reverb returns, it stops the LF in the track getting too waffly.

 

Otherwise, add to taste, but remember that you are adding the illusion of space rather than real space, and what you are really doing is adding another audio layer to your mixes, one the needs treating in exactly the same way as anther guitar or keyboard part. Sparse tracks can deal with longer RT, denser mixes need shorter RT. Increasing pre-delay or early reflection levels makes a reverb space sound bigger without needing longer RT.

 

Been checking out the 500 thanks for that interesting.

1 the original

2 the new version

3 the plug in.

going on reports and what i hear if i had the cash the original would be cool as hell. here is a shoot out of the 3.

i will have to do a vid of the yamaha rev7 it really does have its own thing going on in a good way.

 

reverb on bass is a solo thing for me and only use it for that, iv never put reverb on bass in a trak. fretless bass with that boss rev 3 sounds just fab tho, very hi end studio sounding right away.

cheers for that

Edited January 21, 2022 by funkgod