Advice on technique

[Stub Mandrel]

6 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

2.50:

 

 

I agree with chris_b above, the thumb should act as a pivot, the angle of which you can adjust for what you are playing.

 

I can't see why his wrist and elbow go all over the place.

 

I can't bear the idea of using anything other than my index and ring fingers when playing octaves.

[NickA]

On 10/01/2022 at 12:38, chris_b said:

The thumb should move whenever the note to be played lies outside the natural reach of the fingers.

That's a " position change" ie you've run out of fingers and a rotation / extension is too far to reach, so you move your whole hand, plant your thumb opposite your second finger and access a different set of semi tones.  If you move your thumb when in a particular position you'll lose track of where you are on the fingerboard and have to look at your hand!  Heaven forbid!

[TheLowDown]

The thumb should only be used as a pivot and a sort of stabiliser for the hand, and there should not be any pressure applied by the thumb to the back of the neck. In fact, it's quite possible to play many basslines even without the thumb touching the back of the neck at all, albeit not with 100% success.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by TheLowDown

[chris_b]

4 hours ago, NickA said:

 If you move your thumb when in a particular position you'll lose track of where you are on the fingerboard and have to look at your hand!  Heaven forbid!

 

Really? I have no idea where my thumb is when I'm playing, only where my fingers are. The fingers play the notes, the thumb follows.

 

If you lose track of where your fingers are, you need to practice more, that's got nothing to do with your thumb!

[Stub Mandrel]

When I switch from 1fpf to just using the first three fingers, I rest the neck in my palm and use my thumb to mute the E string.

[Grimalkin]

Don't use more fretting pressure than you need:

 

 

[Dood]

On 06/11/2021 at 14:01, chris_b said:

 

Stretching to reach notes is physically bad for you, poor technique and unnecessary.

 

If 1-2-4 is more comfortable and you can achieve an even flow of notes, then do that. There is no benefit in using force during any technique. IMO, if it's uncomfortable then you're doing it wrong.

 

If you are going to use one finger per fret on a chromatic scale make sure you DON'T anchor your thumb and then stretch for the notes. Always move your thumb/hand so your fingers can reach the notes without stretching.

 

You can play a chromatic scale with just one finger. Try that and see how many times your thumb moves. That's how mobile your hand/thumb should be.

 

This.

 

Only the tip of your thumb should be touching the back of the neck. Do not "broom handle" the neck to support it in your hand either. The other "thing" that I see students doing is opening the thumb out and laying it flat, parallel on the back of the neck. This forces the palm in to a position that impedes finger movement on the fretboard. 

[NickA]

On 06/01/2022 at 21:45, TKenrick said:

Simandl above the 12th fret.

Still trying to imagine any situation in which anyone would do that ... unless they had no 3rd finger.

 

On 10/01/2022 at 14:44, Grimalkin said:

I agree with chris_b above, the thumb should act as a pivot, the angle of which you can adjust for what you are playing.

That video is a pretty good explanation of combining simandl and 1f1f.  But his thumb IS fixed for each hand position, except when he's showing what NOT to do, so not quite sure what you mean.

 

Thumb pivoting ( Rabatt technique on a double bass) is also viable, but again uses defined a thumb position for each, ( now much larger) set of notes.

 

Personally I do tend to keep my first finger down in case I put it back in the wrong place next time I use it.  Probably comes from playing fretless instruments ( And starting with the cello .. which has a short scale).  Going to experiment with that.

 

Clearly, whilst violins, cellos, double basses, classical and flamenco guitar all have formal techniques, the electric bass is too new an instrument for things to have settled down.

 

Good discussion.

[Grimalkin]

4 hours ago, NickA said:

Still trying to imagine any situation in which anyone would do that ... unless they had no 3rd finger.

 

That video is a pretty good explanation of combining simandl and 1f1f.  But his thumb IS fixed for each hand position, except when he's showing what NOT to do, so not quite sure what you mean.

 

Thumb pivoting ( Rabatt technique on a double bass) is also viable, but again uses defined a thumb position for each, ( now much larger) set of notes.

 

Personally I do tend to keep my first finger down in case I put it back in the wrong place next time I use it.  Probably comes from playing fretless instruments ( And starting with the cello .. which has a short scale).  Going to experiment with that.

 

Clearly, whilst violins, cellos, double basses, classical and flamenco guitar all have formal techniques, the electric bass is too new an instrument for things to have settled down.

 

Good discussion.

 

Try an extended G major scale in five fret positioning, so that's three notes per string in one position until the last note on the G (D). For the first six notes you have to pivot the thumb forward for the stretch, and release the first finger if you know what's good for your hand. The last six notes are in four fret position, they don't require pivoting.

 

Five fret positioning is common, from Jaco to Willis.

[Grimalkin]

"False fretting" must be the stretchiest of stretchy ones. That's playing the same note on two adjacent strings, 6 frets apart.

 

Examples of this from 1.45 - 2.00:

 

 

[NickA]

On 12/01/2022 at 01:12, chris_b said:

Really? I have no idea where my thumb is when I'm playing, only where my fingers are. The fingers play the notes, the thumb follows.

I guess my electric bass technique is based a lot on my cello playing.  That is pretty formalised with named hand positions which are defined by where your thumb goes, that's because there are several places each finger can go in each position and the thumb is the only static digit.  Hard to explain. 

 

On 12/01/2022 at 09:12, Stub Mandrel said:

When I switch from 1fpf to just using the first three fingers, I rest the neck in my palm and use my thumb to mute the E string.

Doesn't that immobilise your hand? my fingers would be too short to manage it, especially on the 5-string's wide neck I'd never reach the b string.  Owning a fiver made me switch to floating thumb right hand damping .. bit of a revelation that as I'd never understood the need for right hand damping when I only played a four string.

Edited January 13, 2022 by NickA

[Stub Mandrel]

19 hours ago, NickA said:

On 12/01/2022 at 09:12, Stub Mandrel said:

When I switch from 1fpf to just using the first three fingers, I rest the neck in my palm and use my thumb to mute the E string.

Doesn't that immobilise your hand? my fingers would be too short to manage it, especially on the 5-string's wide neck I'd never reach the b string.  Owning a fiver made me switch to floating thumb right hand damping .. bit of a revelation that as I'd never understood the need for right hand damping when I only played a four string.

Edited 19 hours ago by NickA

 

I'd be unlikely to use do it on my fiver, but for plodding away at a riffs that just use three frets...

[Biscuit_Bass]

Had my 2nd lesson on Friday and was using 1-2-4 with no issues over the hour long lesson so it's definitely an improvement! Fingers have been a bit sore the following day and today though but I'm assuming that's just DOMS 🤣

[Stub Mandrel]

Serious question. Why use 124 on an electric bass. You don't need two finger strength , and even people with smaller hands should have no trouble covering three frets with 123?

 

[Reggaebass]

46 minutes ago, Biscuit_Bass said:

Had my 2nd lesson on Friday and was using 1-2-4 with no issues over the hour long lesson so it's definitely an improvement

I was always taught to play 1fpf so I’ve pretty much always done that,  but there’s no strict rules ,  if your finding it easier to play that way , then do it, you can always fine tune your technique when your more comfortable , most of all just enjoy what you’re playing 🙂

[Doddy]

24 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Serious question. Why use 124 on an electric bass. You don't need two finger strength , and even people with smaller hands should have no trouble covering three frets with 123?

 

It's not really about strength. In lower positions, it can be a bit of stretch to use finger per fret or 123 fingering, especially on a 35" scale bass. 124 gives you a 3 fret reach with a more comfortable hand position. Also, I've found that the vast majority of people who I've taught have more dexterity in their little finger than their ring finger.

[chris_b]

123 means that in the lower positions #3 has to stretch. There is no point in doing that when the pinky can easily cover the note without stretching. Your pinky is a much stronger finger than your ring finger. Get it into your playing style and see the benefits.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

123 means that in the lower positions #3 has to stretch. There is no point in doing that when the pinky can easily cover the note without stretching. Your pinky is a much stronger finger than your ring finger. Get it into your playing style and see the benefits.

 

I have big fingers and can cover the first four frets 1234 no problem, certainly no stretching for 3, it just drops straight down behind the fret. Surely those with shorter fingers can just place 3 somewhat behind the fret?

[Biscuit_Bass]

On 16/01/2022 at 09:12, Stub Mandrel said:

Serious question. Why use 124 on an electric bass. You don't need two finger strength , and even people with smaller hands should have no trouble covering three frets with 123?

 

I'm just doing what is comfortable for me and avoiding pain. I'd rather do what's comfortable and avoid any injury than force myself to learn 1fpf at this stage. I'm guessing the more I play the more my fingers will naturally loosen up and stretch more, then I can try incorporating 1fpf later on. For now, I just want to learn without hurting myself.

[Stub Mandrel]

42 minutes ago, Biscuit_Bass said:

I'm just doing what is comfortable for me and avoiding pain. I'd rather do what's comfortable and avoid any injury than force myself to learn 1fpf at this stage. I'm guessing the more I play the more my fingers will naturally loosen up and stretch more, then I can try incorporating 1fpf later on. For now, I just want to learn without hurting myself.

 

 I can understand why people don't want to do a pinky stretch, it's using ring and pinky together I struggle to understand, as I find it unnatural/uncomfortable.

 

I can see it's a necessity for double bass with long, taught, high action strings, however.

 

I don't have any agenda to stop others doing it though!

[Doddy]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

 I can understand why people don't want to do a pinky stretch, it's using ring and pinky together I struggle to understand, as I find it unnatural/uncomfortable.

 

I can see it's a necessity for double bass with long, taught, high action strings, however.

 

I don't have any agenda to stop others doing it though!

When I fret with my little finger, every other finger behind it is also on the string, whether I'm playing one finger per fret or not. Nothing to do with strength, like when I play upright, but more to do with avoiding flying fingers and keeping things fluid.

[Stub Mandrel]

14 hours ago, Doddy said:

When I fret with my little finger, every other finger behind it is also on the string, whether I'm playing one finger per fret or not. Nothing to do with strength, like when I play upright, but more to do with avoiding flying fingers and keeping things fluid.

 

It would be interesting to see a video of several people playing the same short selection of pieces to compare their fingering styles.

[Stub Mandrel]

Ve haf vays of making you play 1FPF!

 

[Freud_Chicken123]

I dont know any pro players who use a 4 semitone position any lower than 4th position (first finger on D, G string). Simandl would be 1-2-4 in a 3 semitone position, and alot of italian taught players still use 1-3-4. 

[NickA]

On 20/01/2022 at 16:30, Freud_Chicken123 said:

I dont know any pro players who use a 4 semitone position any lower than 4th position (first finger on D, G string). Simandl would be 1-2-4 in a 3 semitone position, and alot of italian taught players still use 1-3-4. 

I don't know any pro players 😁😁

 

But this bloke seems to think it's ok. ll

 

Depends on the size of your hands I guess. And his are BIG