SteveXFR Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Most metal bass tones sound horrible in isolation but mix in a couple guitars and some drums and you've got something that works. A tone which sounds great in isolation could be lost in the mix 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 59 minutes ago, ezbass said: This ^ One of my favourite bass tones of all time is in that video list, The Real Me. Love it! However, in isolation, it’s horrible and I was aghast the first time I heard it like that. Of course, when the mix buries the bass tone, what’s the actual point of being there at all? I feel sorry for Jason Newstead, seems a nice guy and a decent player, forced to work with that goblin behind the drums. I bet Trujillo doesn’t put up with his shít. Interesting the Scott D refuses to concede that Jaco’s tone is challenging for some - he’s such a massive fanboy. Scott can't ever say that Jaco's tone is divisive to put it mildly. Newsted's tone sounds fantastic if that really is what it is. I never ever heard it before and didn't realise the isolated tracks were even available. I would also go so far as to say Trujillo does what he's told for one simple reason. Money. Lars is the boss and is responsible for some of the worst production crimes in music, let alone metal. How many Metallica albums have got good mixes? Post Burton? None. Why? Lars is a moron. Anyone who's listened to the albums Trujillo is on will struggle to hear him. As an Entwistle fan, I've never been a fan of his quadrophenia tone. Mainly because it's Gibsons with no top end really. As for the Jamerson tone being bad? Really?!! Really?!! Insane. He's fantastic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ezbass said: Edited November 9, 2021 by Wolverinebass Double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 I would make a wild speculative guess that the people voting on this have largely ignored the mix (apart from the Newsted one, and maybe the last Flea one) and listened to the isolated tracks. In which case, they didn't listen to any Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveXFR Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 11 hours ago, Wolverinebass said: Anyone who's listened to the albums Trujillo is on will struggle to hear him. It's such a shame, he's a brilliant bassist. His playing with Suicidal Tendencies and Infectious Grooves was brilliant. I didn't think he was pushed with Ozzy, the music was just basic hard rock. He could do something great with Metallica if the short arsed, power tripping third rate drummer and Stewie Griffin look alike would allow a decent mix. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Soup Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 I reckon most of those songs could be in a list called "songs where the bass player got the tone spot-on" and it would have made more sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CookPassBabtridge Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 I usually try and avoid Scott Devine’s clickbait video titles and his 10+ minutes of goofing around but I may have to watch this one as it sounds interesting. Echoing others’ comments about the mix being super important - there was an isolated bass track from MJ’s ‘Rock with You’ shared here a short while ago. I’d always thought that the bass on that track sounded great, but on its own it was terrible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ern500evo Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 14 hours ago, Wolverinebass said: Scott can't ever say that Jaco's tone is divisive to put it mildly. Newsted's tone sounds fantastic if that really is what it is. I never ever heard it before and didn't realise the isolated tracks were even available. I would also go so far as to say Trujillo does what he's told for one simple reason. Money. Lars is the boss and is responsible for some of the worst production crimes in music, let alone metal. How many Metallica albums have got good mixes? Post Burton? None. Why? Lars is a moron. Anyone who's listened to the albums Trujillo is on will struggle to hear him. As an Entwistle fan, I've never been a fan of his quadrophenia tone. Mainly because it's Gibsons with no top end really. As for the Jamerson tone being bad? Really?!! Really?!! Insane. He's fantastic. Aren’t there basically two different versions of the Quadrophenia soundtrack. The album I have is a different bass track to the version of The Real Me that’s in the OP clip. I thought Entwistle re-recorded the bass tracks with a much grittier tone, using an Alembic bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveXFR Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 This sounds bloody awful on its own But in the context of the song it is absolutely perfect. The guitar and bass compliment each other nicely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, Wolverinebass said: Scott can't ever say that Jaco's tone is divisive to put it mildly. Newsted's tone sounds fantastic if that really is what it is. I never ever heard it before and didn't realise the isolated tracks were even available. I would also go so far as to say Trujillo does what he's told for one simple reason. Money. Lars is the boss and is responsible for some of the worst production crimes in music, let alone metal. How many Metallica albums have got good mixes? Post Burton? None. Why? Lars is a moron. Anyone who's listened to the albums Trujillo is on will struggle to hear him. As an Entwistle fan, I've never been a fan of his quadrophenia tone. Mainly because it's Gibsons with no top end really. As for the Jamerson tone being bad? Really?!! Really?!! Insane. He's fantastic. You wouldn't say Metallica albums 5, 6 and 7 have good mixes? They're not my favourite, musically, by any stretch, but they are sonically magnificent, no doubt about it. That entire OP video is a sham, by virtue of the fact that the AJFA bass tone is on there. Nobody heard that bass tone until the Guitar Hero stems came out. You can't hear it on the album so how can it be a bad tone in the context of the album? If it's just a load of bedroom maestros judging based on hearing it in isolation, and beaching about what sounds bad in isolation, which it is, then it's entirely pointless. How much sneering has been done on here about guitarists with bedroom tone, rather than a tone which works in a band context? I appreciate the guy needs to continually get hits on his channel, but it's a tabloid-level approach to what could have been an educational discussion. Edited November 10, 2021 by Doctor J 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 8 hours ago, ern500evo said: Aren’t there basically two different versions of the Quadrophenia soundtrack. The album I have is a different bass track to the version of The Real Me that’s in the OP clip. I thought Entwistle re-recorded the bass tracks with a much grittier tone, using an Alembic bass? He did for the soundtrack in 1979. I was talking about the tone on the 1973 album which is the one mentioned in the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveXFR Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Isn't Scott Divine a member of this forum? Maybe he could explain and apologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, Doctor J said: You wouldn't say Metallica albums 5, 6 and 7 have good mixes? They're not my favourite, musically, by any stretch, but they are sonically magnificent, no doubt about it. That entire OP video is a sham, by virtue of the fact that the AJFA bass tone is on there. Nobody heard that bass tone until the Guitar Hero stems came out. You can't hear it on the album so how can it be a bad tone in the context of the album? If it's just a load of bedroom maestros judging based on hearing it in isolation, and beaching about what sounds bad in isolation, which it is, then it's entirely pointless. How much sneering has been done on here about guitarists with bedroom tone, rather than a tone which works in a band context? I appreciate the guy needs to continually get his on his channel, but it's a tabloid-level approach to what could have been an educational discussion. The Black Album is merely okay and I must admit I've never been a fan of that mix. If you dissociate the sound from the songs (which is quite difficult as the songs are great) you'll hear it differently. Kind of like Badmotorfinger by Soundgarden. Sonically, it's not the best, but the songs are amazing so they get away with it. Load and Reload the bass is just mush and buried for the most part. Plus the material isn't their best through that period anyway. Ultimately, they'll never get stuff remixed, fixed, admit they made stupid decisions or apologise about it. I have very little time for any of the members of Metallica (aside from Trujillo) as I think that they're just not very nice people who deflect everything negative about them and whatever decisions they've made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 The Black album is at least 50% filler to these ears, so there's no problem dissociating the sound from the songs. It sounds huge, punchy and everything has its place in the mix, which is exactly what they were trying to achieve. That mix tricked loads of people into thinking it's an album full of great songs 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted November 10, 2021 Author Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) On 08/11/2021 at 19:24, Dan Dare said: Since I started using a long lead or wireless to check how the bass works out front, I have thinned out the sound I use and added a little midrange bark/bite to it, so it sits right and has more clarity and less bloom. It may not be the most pleasing sound to me in isolation, but it works better as part of the whole. This in heaps. I used to only concentrate on getting what I considered a great tone. Later I started listening to what the whole band sounded like and realised I had to take some bottom end out and push the mids. The result was a far better sound for the band as a whole. As long as the final product sounds good that's all that matters. It's clear from the answers on this post that people have vastly differing opinions on what sounds good and what doesn't. Thats ok, we can't all like the same things. It's also clear that some people simply hate everything that Scott Divine does. I merely watched a video about tone. if you actually watch the video S.D. is shocked at some of the votes and agrees with many of you who are deriding him. Edited November 10, 2021 by ubit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ern500evo Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Wolverinebass said: He did for the soundtrack in 1979. I was talking about the tone on the 1973 album which is the one mentioned in the video. I didn’t even realise the album and movie soundtrack were 6 years apart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Soup Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 9 hours ago, Doctor J said: what could have been an educational discussion. Exactly- if he had shown some examples where the bass tone was actually off and discussed why then it could have been enlightening. With the obligatory “Hey, but the rules are there to be broken” section of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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