Pedal or pedals to do a job...

[JonesTheCat]

Hi all. 

 

Complete newcomer to pedals looking for some advice. 

 

Basically, I play in a three piece, bass/drums/guitar. I want to be able to do something to fill a bit of the space left by the guitar to enable our guitarist to play the occasional lead part. 

 

Is there a type of pedal(s) people would recommend for this sort of thing? not necessarily after specific recommendations, although they're also welcome, but more how you would go about effectively covering some of the rhythm guitar sound with the bass. 

 

My initial thoughts based on a bit of looking around was maybe a chorus and an octave? I'm imagining there could be multiple ways to do this so interested to hear what people think. 

 

Cheers!

[SimonEdward]

.. from a technical point-of-view, for covering the rhythm sound - melodic arpeggios, an enhanced version of the main riff, and/or sustained power chords, rather than the root note of the chord, could be a good fit (?), dependant on material and taste.

 

And as this is the "effects" bit of BC; my personal recommendation for Octave/chorus combo's are: - BOSS OC-5/OC-2 + pre-loved TC Corona or TC flashback delay (2290 MOD setting, with delay "OFF").

 

Best wishes, Simon.

[Stofferson]

I tend to use a slight bit of drive/boost.

 

In the past a EHX bass soul food was a good shout, slight bit of distortion / treble bite.

Currently using an Ashdown double shot for a top end breakup.

Personally never found a chorus effect to fill stuff out in my stuff.

Octave wise, if going up, it'll kinda sound weird on it's unless you have some form of gain/fuzz/distortion along side it.

 

all depends on what kinda style your playing though too.

I'd say grab some cheap pedals, try them out and find something you like then invest in a solid version of that.

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Stofferson

[soldersqueeze]

I'll probably be in the minority with all this, but you did say you're looking for differing opinions

I never thought octave pedals work for this job, because you're not really replacing what the guitarist was doing, especially with something like the OC-2 which won't do chords, tracks poorly and has an remarkably limited sound (seriously, I think it's the most overrated pedal, I don't understand why it gets so much love. The MXR BOD is way better if you want an analogue octaver). I also have no love for polyphonic octave because I've tried a bunch of the "good" ones and they all sounded horrid to me.

I think that adding a bit of light dirt and mixing up what you're playing to fill out the sound is the best route for your situation. I'd say to try a chorus pedal too, mainly because they're fun and any cheapo chorus works just fine.

 

Anyway, I'd better go, I can hear the OC-2 fans coming for me... They're at the gates...

 

Tell my wife I love her... I'll miss you all.

[Boodang]

Not so much to replace the guitar but more to create a bigger sound, I use an octaver and, instead of a chorus, a phaser for the more rhythmic parts.

For more radical sounds i use a EHX mono synth pedal. Really big sounds and some of them you can tame for normal use.

[Lozz196]

I`d look at adding in some drive/gain as per @Stofferson says. Works quite well going from completely clean to slightly overdriven.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 15, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Doddy]

34 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

Most important is to focus on the playing- either make some tasteful additions to better highlight the harmony while the guitar is soloing or, as is often better, hold fast along with the drummer; don't change a damn thing, which can really hold the music together. The guitarist may need to be more aware of the harmony rather than just noodling pentatonically, but I'm sure he's already got that in hand. 😉

 

 

This.

 

I'm a massive pedal head, but effects aren't always the best way of filling out the sound.  I'd be more likely to recommend focusing on your tone, and being aware of the harmony and what register you are playing in. I find that in small groups, it can often sound bigger if you play simpler, but with a good tone. Of course, if you know the harmony you can go all Jack Bruce if you want.

Pedals are often best used as a spice to your tone, rather than a way to fill out the sound. If you look at it like that, you can actually get away with using any effects you want- but start with your playing first. 

[Cosmo Valdemar]

If the band's sound drops out during guitar solos, the first thing you need to do is look at your tone/EQ and note choices. You shouldn't need to use a specific effect to do that job and become a crutch.

 

The bass and drums should be the main body of the sound, with the guitar seasoning on top That's a slightly flippant way of putting it but you get the gist. I don't think a bass player should need an extra sonic kick during guitar solos, it should already be there.

 

Don't think I'm being down on pedals, I'm really not - I have far too many and never play without some degree of distortion, but that's because I like that sound. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Cosmo Valdemar

[JonesTheCat]

Wow thanks everyone, lots to go through here. Completely agree with the comments about better playing and tone on my part, something I'm working on. I'm quite glad there's not a pedal based answer to be honest - I'll have a look at a couple of the suggestions as maybe a way of adding some spice as mentioned upthread though. I had been thinking of this as either an always-on or quite a mild shift in sound rather than a huge jump to fill a gap which I didn't explain very well in the original post!

 

cheers all

[Cosmo Valdemar]

38 minutes ago, JonesTheCat said:

Wow thanks everyone, lots to go through here. Completely agree with the comments about better playing and tone on my part, something I'm working on. I'm quite glad there's not a pedal based answer to be honest - I'll have a look at a couple of the suggestions as maybe a way of adding some spice as mentioned upthread though. I had been thinking of this as either an always-on or quite a mild shift in sound rather than a huge jump to fill a gap which I didn't explain very well in the original post!

 

cheers all

What gear are you using at the moment?

[Downunderwonder]

A Prunes & Custard...Harmonic Generator Intermodulator.

 

Lush with all the lows and attack.

[BassAdder60]

TC Spark Booster and kick it on during solos etc 

 

[Geddys nose]

Surprised no one has mentioned the Akai Unibass or Fishman Fission which are designed to do exactly what you are asking, Might not be to everyone’s taste but I use the Fission to great (er..) effect.

[Stingray64]

On 10/11/2021 at 12:05, soldersqueeze said:

I'll probably be in the minority with all this, but you did say you're looking for differing opinions

I never thought octave pedals work for this job, because you're not really replacing what the guitarist was doing

Now let me tell you, I'm obsessed with OC2s and also a huge part of my niche is using effects to fill up loads of spaces outside just bass guitar and yet, I couldn't agree more with everything you've said! Although I would probably avoid chorus unless keeping the mix fairly low because I don't like too much detune in a mix.

[Japhet]

I play in a 3 piece (+ singer) rock band. What I do is have a pretty clean sound for the most part and then use a small amount of drive and sometimes a bit of octave (up) if things need fattening up a bit. Octave down tends to turn the sound mushy in my opinion. You could also try a booster like the TC Spark. A TC Mojomojo is a cheap dirt pedal that holds up very well and keeps your tone good and the Sub n Up (also TC) handles the octave up side. There are plenty of other options though. I've never thought Chorus really did anything to fill out sound but that may just be me. You could also try adding a bit of delay as an option.

 

P.S. Another absolute bargain pedal that adds a subtle bit of grind is the Joyo American sound. I'm very impressed with this one and it also has a very tweakable EQ section (Fender tone stack inspired) so you can get a distinctively different sound when you want it (or not as the case may be).

Edited November 15, 2021 by Japhet

[fretmeister]

I'll start by saying that I love pedals / effects on bass. Probably to unhealthy levels!  

 

But, adding a bit of drive or chorus and playing the same part rarely does anything worthwhile as a 'behind the solo' thickener.

 

If you listen to the great 3 piece bands in the vast majority there is no change in bass sound behind solos, but the bass part changes. Sometimes it stays on root notes, sometimes Root and 5th, maybe on the kick drum and snare to lock in, sometimes the bass part is completely different than before while still following the same chord structure. Walking bass part or a full blown JS Bach contra-part or even a bass solo of sorts intertwined with the guitar part. And if it's Jack Bruce he fit all of those options into a song so the bass part built to a crescendo as much as the solo did.

 

The guitar part itself will often use a lower register than a 2 guitar band and use more double stops rather than a widdle fest for the whole solo (ZZ Top).  But in a 3 piece you also have to enjoy the space. It's not "empty" it's just more dynamic space! A nice rest from the wall of sound.

 

You won't need to change anything in the tone if the arrangement is right.

 

 

[Cosmo Valdemar]

20 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I'll start by saying that I love pedals / effects on bass. Probably to unhealthy levels!  

 

But, adding a bit of drive or chorus and playing the same part rarely does anything worthwhile as a 'behind the solo' thickener.

 

If you listen to the great 3 piece bands in the vast majority there is no change in bass sound behind solos, but the bass part changes. Sometimes it stays on root notes, sometimes Root and 5th, maybe on the kick drum and snare to lock in, sometimes the bass part is completely different than before while still following the same chord structure. Walking bass part or a full blown JS Bach contra-part or even a bass solo of sorts intertwined with the guitar part. And if it's Jack Bruce he fit all of those options into a song so the bass part built to a crescendo as much as the solo did.

 

The guitar part itself will often use a lower register than a 2 guitar band and use more double stops rather than a widdle fest for the whole solo (ZZ Top).  But in a 3 piece you also have to enjoy the space. It's not "empty" it's just more dynamic space! A nice rest from the wall of sound.

 

You won't need to change anything in the tone if the arrangement is right.

 

 

Agree 100%

[garyt]

Probably already been said, but I wouldn’t rely on pedals , but more look at what all the great bass players in 3 piece bands do when the guitarist solos - Muse, Rush, the Police, Green Day, Biffy, etc.  You mainly need to hold it down, solid as a rock. 

Your guitarist will need to have a decent boost though, as his/her sound will go from chords to single notes, and ideally should be louder.  It’s quite a skill for guitarists to get right.

The type of pedal will probably be more dependant on what style of music you play , and what suits your playing, rather than just a fix for guitar solos.  Mind you, can never go wrong with a decent drive pedal with a blend control, or a decent compressor, or an octave, or a chorus, or a … and then damn, you’re in the rabbit hole. 

[krispn]

Some of my favourite tunes have a completely different section during the solo so while thats not much use if you already have a bunch of songs or are playing covers it’s worth it thinking about when writing new material. 

As most folk will have said working on the basic tone and figuring out how the guitar can compliment the bass (if we’re providing a solid low/low mid the guitarist should really be adding to our foundation…if it’s something the band feels is a worthwhile endeavour) can be a really useful way to spend a practice session. If you and the guitarist have eq pedals it’s a great way to try and compliment or cover a wider spectrum between you both so if the solo kicks in you already have a solid foundation. It might be that you don’t need to do too much and having an alternative guitar ‘solo sound’ might make more sense than the bass always having to ‘fill in’ for the missing rhythm guitar.

 

Some mild overdrive or dirtying the tone up a bit can do wonders for the overall weight of the bass with the band in general and while the bass may sound more aggressive than you’re all familiar with it might come a bit more alive when playing together - I’ve found this as I’ve recently joined a new band and I’m playing with more drive than I ever have as my basically always sound. I used the phrase elsewhere on BC recently but the dirt ‘dissolves’ into the mix (like a tasty tonal stock pot) and does it’s job without being noticeable ‘heavy’ or indeed “salty” Using a clean blend can help achieve the ’weight’ too and adds an extra layer or dimension to add information across the spectrum. 
Might be worth looking at EQ, drive and clean blend as a first step and working with the band to think how solo sections can be filled out between you, (some tonal changes) locking in with the drummer on a slightly different section, pattern or groove or just good old fashions screaming filth and power😀