GR AT212 v Barefaced - One Cab Solution?

[MattW]

Hi All,

 

I currently have a Barefaced Big Twin 2, and a Big Baby 2.  Generally playing them with an RM800 these days, although will take my ABM600 sometimes

 

The Big Twin comes out when I play larger venues, and the Big Baby for smaller pubs and rehearsals.   I wish the BB was 4ohms though as it would give me a bit more headroom as a single cab.

 

I've been looking at GR cabs for a while now, and the AT212 slim seems to fit bang in between the BT and the BB spec and size wise and is available in 4ohm, and am considering whether to sell them and get the GR as a single cab solution.

 

Anyone used the GR who can advise on the pros/cons?

 

Cheers!

[eude]

The GR Bass 2x12 Slim cabs really appeal to me too.

As far as concerns go, I have read of a few fit and finish issues with the AT Carbon cabs, but I haven't heard anything bad about their wooden cabs.

They're half the price of the carbon ones and only a little heavier but still light for a cab if it's size, I think in the case of the 2x12 Slim the Carbon one is about 13kg and the wooden one about 19kg.

I haven't tried these cabs, but I'm sure there's someone on here who has the 2x12 Slim as their main cab.

 

Eude

[eude]

Here you go >> 

 

[la bam]

The AT410 intrigues me at the moment.

[chris_b]

4 hours ago, MattW said:

I wish the BB was 4ohms though as it would give me a bit more headroom as a single cab.

 

I don't think you'll see much of a volume difference between 4 ohm and 8 ohm from your amp. More "headroom" is desirable when an amp is running out of steam. Your BB2 is only just ticking over at 400 watts.

Edited November 10, 2021 by chris_b

[Al Krow]

GR AT cabs - pros: great sound, super light weight, 4 and 8 ohm options; cons: build construction strength, price

 

BF BB2 - pros: great sound, light weight; cons: 8ohm only, price

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Al Krow

[Stevie H]

I part exchanged my Supertwin for the GR AT 212 slim. My main reasoning for the swap was that I needed to shave some size and weight but retain the power….which the GR does very well. However I’ve got to say that after playing about 6 gigs now with the GR it just sounds spectacular. The ST was obviously pretty great but the GR is just ‘better’ all round. The only slight issue is that I occasionally get the OD light come on now and again on my Mesa D800, and the limit light can flicker if you’ve got it really mega cranked in much larger venues with no PA support. This never happened with the ST, but quick fiddle with the gain and eq and you’re good to go with no issues. 

[SuperSeagull]

Interesting. Have just bought (from here) a Rootmaster 500 and am planning to sell off my MB cmd12p and 121ny cab and replace with ideally one cab that covers the small enough to lug about easily but capable enough of running loud bases. I too would prefer a 4ohm option from that one cab.

[MattW]

2 hours ago, Stevie H said:

I part exchanged my Supertwin for the GR AT 212 slim. My main reasoning for the swap was that I needed to shave some size and weight but retain the power….which the GR does very well. However I’ve got to say that after playing about 6 gigs now with the GR it just sounds spectacular. The ST was obviously pretty great but the GR is just ‘better’ all round. The only slight issue is that I occasionally get the OD light come on now and again on my Mesa D800, and the limit light can flicker if you’ve got it really mega cranked in much larger venues with no PA support. This never happened with the ST, but quick fiddle with the gain and eq and you’re good to go with no issues. 

 

This is good to hear, certainly sounds a viable option then!

[Downunderwonder]

10 hours ago, MattW said:

 I wish the BB was 4ohms though as it would give me a bit more headroom as a single cab

So long as your amp can do 400 clean watts into 8 ohms it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

[BillyBass]

Calling @Stub Mandrel

 

Who I think uses one of the 212s with an Orange Terror Bass.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

11 hours ago, MattW said:

 I wish the BB was 4ohms though as it would give me a bit more headroom as a single cab.

That's a common misconception. You do get higher output per volt, but there's no such thing as a free lunch. You also lose current headroom in the amp. People tend to look at the higher amp power output into 4 ohms as opposed to 8 ohms and assume that's a good thing. It's not, because that higher power output is obtained at the cost of higher current draw.

[binky_bass]

I moved on my Mesa Strategy rig for an AT410+ and a Kemper.

 

The AT410+ is an epic sounding cab and at 15kg for a 1200w cab vs one of my old Mesa cab at 45kg it was a very welcome change. 

 

You need to understand that weight has been shave at every possible, non critical, point to make it as light as it is, so 'fit and finish' issues might work their way in to the build process more easily that 12 ply birch cabs like the Mesa. 

 

The feet on mine are a little tall and narrow therefore make the fixings feel like they might sheer when you move it across the floor, but for the sound quality and 'lightness' I'm more than happy to accept a mild compromise in this area as it doesn't effect how the cab performs. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by binky_bass

[Al Krow]

1 minute ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

That's a common misconception. You do get higher output per volt, but there's no such thing as a free lunch. You also lose current headroom in the amp. People tend to look at the higher amp power output into 4 ohms as opposed to 8 ohms and assume that's a good thing. It's not, because that higher power output is obtained at the cost of higher current draw.

 

But if an amp can comfortably deliver a higher wattage at 4ohm and the cab can receive it, is there any real downside? 

 

You mention headroom, but surely the quid pro quo with a 4 ohm cab is you don't need to dial the amp as much to get the same volume, so doesn't the current headroom point come out in the wash?

 

I've heard folk describe 4 ohm cabs as allowing their amps to "breathe" more comfortably. Is that just wishful thinking?

[MattW]

41 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

So long as your amp can do 400 clean watts into 8 ohms it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

 

7 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

I don't think you'll see much of a volume difference between 4 ohm and 8 ohm from your amp. More "headroom" is desirable when an amp is running out of steam. Your BB2 is only just ticking over at 400 watts.

 

5 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

That's a common misconception. You do get higher output per volt, but there's no such thing as a free lunch. You also lose current headroom in the amp. People tend to look at the higher amp power output into 4 ohms as opposed to 8 ohms and assume that's a good thing. It's not, because that higher power output is obtained at the cost of higher current draw.

I'm not going to pretend to understand the science behind this, but I'm just working off the basis of experience and advice given by Dave Green at Ashdown.

 

They've swapped out 8ohm for 4ohm speakers on two Combo's over the years, and both have had an increase in perceived and usable clean volume/headroom.  Maybe it's due to the drivers themselves, I don't know, but I was very happy with them.

 

However it's only really relevant to this if there was a 4ohm BB which there isn't, unless there was a general feeling that if I went for an AT212 slim that I should get an 8ohm so that I potentially have the option to use 2 further down the line!!  That could be interesting!!

 

 

[Downunderwonder]

9 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

the cost of higher current draw.

Aka burning up the 4 ohm version chasing your tail.

[SuperSeagull]

Ok, I’m obviously being very dense here. Both my MB and Ashdown amps are quoted as providing twice the wattage into 4 ohms as 8. Understand that doesn’t mean twice as loud but surely it means louder than at 8ohms?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

It does not, at least where maximum volume is concerned, which is usually limited by the driver excursion. With no changes to the knobs the four ohm cab will be perhaps 3dB louder. However, all it takes to get the same excursion, and therefore the same output, from the 8 ohm cab is a slight twist of the volume knob. If the amp is rated well below the power rating of the speaker, like by half, then you might, might, get 2 dB higher maximum output from the 4 ohm rig. It might even be slightly audible, but that's it.

[Downunderwonder]

2 hours ago, SuperSeagull said:

Ok, I’m obviously being very dense here. Both my MB and Ashdown amps are quoted as providing twice the wattage into 4 ohms as 8. Understand that doesn’t mean twice as loud but surely it means louder than at 8ohms?

Only if the amp can't drive the 8 ohm version fully. That's exceeding rare and I really doubt it applies to OP's 800w amp.

 

If you're talking about increasing the number of speakers then that's different. We weren't talking about that.

[SuperSeagull]

7 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Only if the amp can't drive the 8 ohm version fully. That's exceeding rare and I really doubt it applies to OP's 800w amp.

 

If you're talking about increasing the number of speakers then that's different. We weren't talking about that.

Thanks both of you for answering so clearly. 

[kevham]

I am also intrigued by the GR AT carbon cabs. I have a Barefaced Supertwin for gigs and a Two10s for rehearsals. I recently injured my back and even the Supertwin is verging on being hazardous to move (although it has the built in wheels).

I had toyed with the idea of selling the Two10s and getting a GR AT212 to try out. Current amp is a TC RH450.

Any thoughts? 

[binky_bass]

Not tried the GR AT212 but as you may have heard I'm very happy to sing the praises of the GR AT410+, 15kg, 1200w, exceptional sound. I imagine the GR AT212 would be just as good. Do bear in mind that these are specifically built to be as light as technically possible so it will feel 'less sturdy' when you pick it up and move it around, that's not to say they aren't extremely sturdy and well built, but it does trick your mind a bit when you lift these cabs. 

[chris_b]

14 hours ago, kevham said:

. . . .  I recently injured my back and even the Supertwin is verging on being hazardous to move (although it has the built in wheels). . . . Any thoughts? 

 

With an injured back IMO the only sensible thing to do is buy 2 112 cabs. Each lift needs to be the lightest you can find.

[BassManGraham]

I would go Barefaced all day long. I have used a Super 12T for years. Sounds great, never lets me down. Massive power.

 

I have bought an GR AT 410+, which I sent back due to quality control issues. Tiny flimsy feet fell off. Cabinet rattled due to poor speaking mountings,  but in fairness the speakers sounded great, so I thought I'd give GR them another chance so I ordered a GR 212, which arrived today. Horrible rattle coming from one of the Jensen 12 inch drivers it's going back.  

 

 If you're based in UK I would not hesitate to buy Barefaced everytime.  Living in Ireland post Brexit means I have to pay extra VAT, customs duty on total price (including courier cost) plus handling charges. Which puts a big chunk on thr price and UK builders at a disadvantage. 

 

I tried GR due to relative ease of EU import, but wish I hadn't!  

[binky_bass]

1 minute ago, BassManGraham said:

I tried GR due to relative ease of EU import, but wish I hadn't!  

Curious how people's experiences can differ so wildly. I bought an GR AT410+ a few months back and absolutely love it. Shame you had the issues you had as when they're 'issue free' they are fantastic bits of kit.