Thinking of forming a covers band - Advice needed

[BigBeefChief]

I'm currently toying with the idea of setting up a covers band.

I currently play in a 5 piece originals band, which I love. However, the constant "pay to play" shenanigans of London venues and the lack of non-friend crown does grate occasionaly.

I've always had a lot of respect for you weekend-warrior covers guys, and I think it looks like a lot of fun. I also think it will stretch me musically.

What I don't want to do however, is join an existing band. I kinda like the challenge and idea of setting something up from scratch. I have a few buddies who are interested in forming this, but like me have never palyed in a covers band. I'm thinking of making it a criteria to join - you must have no experience of playing in a covers band!

The issue is, with my current band, we only play venues with a PA and backline. All I do is show up with a bass at a certain time and play. I don't have the first clue as to what's required equipment wise, how much do you charge, getting gigs, likely problems, how long a set is needed, how much it would cost to set up from scratch etc.

Given that I know a lot of you guys have been gigging in covers acts since the dinosaurs roamed the earth, I was wondering if anyone could offfer any advice/info on the above?

If you were to set up a band from scratch now, how would you go about it?


Apologies if this has been covered before, or if its in the wiki (I haven't checked as BassFerret told me not to).

[chris_b]

Decide how successful you want to be and what covers you want to do. I'm in a covers band that gets a cheer when we start Stones or Small Faces numbers and absolutely nothing with Doors, Jackson Browne and Tom Petty covers.

Edited April 4, 2009 by chris_b

[Thunderthumbs]

Equipment-wise.....you're definitely going to need backline and your own PA (unless you want to hire stuff). For the majority of venues, you'll probably get away with a vocal PA. So if you want to start off cheap, look for a powered mixer for vocals, or lookout for a low priced second-hand power amp and speakers. There's always band expanding their own PAs (as we have done), so you'll probably find a few knocking about on eBay.

Decide what kind of material you want to do and find the venues that support that kind of material, or find the venues that you want to play and base your material around that.

Trying to find like-minded people to join the band could be one of the hardest parts. Not just about deciding what material they like, but everything else that goes with it.....how often do they want to play, how far are they prepared to travel, how much are they looking to earn, etc. etc.

Do it if you really want to have a good time doing it.....and get paid. [b]Don't[/b] expect to earn a mint right from the off. I joined my current band about 3 years ago, and they were earning approximately the same as I'd been earning 10 years previous when I quit my last covers band. We're now doing weddings as the majority of our gigs. We prefer it, as people are already in the party mood, they're less likely to stand 6 inches away from your PA standing/spilling their drinks all over it, and of course the money's an awful lot better.

Look to be able to do around 2 x 45 mins spots at least. In pubs/working mens clubs, that's the general expected minimum. For weddings/corporate work, expect anything from those spots to around 3-4 hours.

Then it depends whether you want to work through agents. They'll get you straight into some venues, but obviously you pay them commission.

Depending on where you play, dress appropriately. For pubs you may get away with jeans & shirt/t-shirt. In clubs, smart casuals may do. At weddings, generally expect to be suited up.

[b]Always[/b] be on time. [b]Always[/b] be polite. [b]Always[/b] leave the boozing til after you've finished playing.

And......good luck.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Thunderthumbs

[lowdown]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='454106' date='Apr 4 2009, 02:20 PM']I also think it will stretch me musically.[/quote]

Hang on, WTF is going on here?
Have you been sniffing glue?

Garry

[Eight]

Is this the Avril Lavigne covers project you told me about?

I say go for it.

[Thunderthumbs]

Oh......and throw in some Pickety Witch.....the crowds love it

Edited April 4, 2009 by Thunderthumbs

[iamthewalrus]

Hi BBC,
If you're serious about doing a covers band, you need to have an idea what material you want to play. This ties up with what sort if gigs you're looking for, as if you're looking to do a wide cross section of gigs (i.e. weddings, parties, company functions, working mens clubs, British Legions etc.), be prepared to play a lot of music you may not necessarily like. You may find that some of these gigs will require you to comply with a dress code (i.e. Tuxedos, or collar & tie, or smart casual). If you're looking at doing a particular sort of material, you'll be restricted to doing mainly pub gigs, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Money for doing weddings & the like pay better than your average pub gig - you may be looking at a minimum of say £250 - maximum - sky's the limit. Pub gigs in the South East you're looking at somewhere between £150 - £180, depends on the landlord. Some bands only get a cut of the takings behind the bar, so that being the case, make sure you get loads of your mates in to drink lots of beer & publicise the gig well in advance.

Equipment wise (apart from your own backline) you'll need a decent size PA (I'd say at least 1kw) - this would comprise of a powered mixer, a couple of PA speaker cabs (with adjustable stands), two monitors (1 powered, 1 slave), a sufficient number of mics for all the vocals (plus a couple of spares in case they break down). You'll also need decent quality leads to hook all the stuff up with, a sufficient number of plugboards as you'll probably find that there's only one socket in the entire room to plug into! If you're looking at micing everything up & pushing it through the PA, you'll need to invest in a couple of Bass Bins & increase the wattage of the PA.

Doing these kinds of gigs will increase your musical knowledge & stretch you as a player. I've learned more about music by playing in covers bands than I ever did by playing originals.

I've probably only scratched the surface with some of the stuff above as there will be countless other guys on here with greater experience & knowledge who will add in stuff I've overlooked.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,
iamthewalrus.

Edited April 4, 2009 by iamthewalrus

[farmer61]

Variety of covers works well, some loud, some acoustic, some old and some new.

Trick is to try and please most of the punters in, they like your stuff, they stay and the pub is happy. Quote from one landlord, you ain't the best musicians but the punters stay around....

Plus we find that playing stuff that people know and can tap feet/sing along to works best. That obscure Nirvana track that you think is great that no-one else has heard is like playing originals to the wrong auidence. Most weekend punters just want to get pissed and sing.

PA for vocals and any acoustics bits plus drums where needed, backline for Bass and Guit's.

We've played large corporate gigs with this set up....works ok.

Most pubs we play will pay about £175 - 250 until you get a reputation in which case they'll go a bit higher.

Sounds great I'm about to join a second covers band, not an original song in my body I'm afraid.

Good luck with it!

[crez5150]

Don't do weddings/corporate for less than £1500..... I mean it...... Don't use agents as they are sh*te.... and never get you work that you want at the money you want....

Do pubs if you want to have a bit of a laugh and not too much pressure but don't expect to earn anything from it...

there will be more but I'm just off to a corporate gig....

[peteb]

Beefy

Cool idea – should be lots of fun and you WILL improve, if only because you will be gigging more regularly!

I’m assuming that you will be looking to play pubs rather than corporate / function type gigs, which are more hassle and requires much more work, more initial investment, dealing with agents, matching stage outfits, etc (but on the other hand will earn much better money).

You will need a decent quality vocal PA with plenty of headroom (i.e. is loud enough) – spend your money on good quality speaker cabs and amps with sufficient power rather than a fancy desk. I would suggest that at most venues you will have vocals and a little drums (bass drum and an overhead) thru the PA and rely on backline for everything else. This generally works better for smallish venues than trying to put everything thru the PA. Therefore you will need a decent quality stack (minimum 300w) with something like a 4x10 cab.

The best idea is to work out what type of audience you will be playing to and pick a set that they will all know but without too many blindingly obvious songs that every other band does. Don’t be afraid to throw in a couple of slightly more obscure choices – these may not go down as well as your very well known ones, but will be the ones that certain people in the audience will remember and make you different from all the other bands on the circuit and help to build a following.

I could suggest a set for a hard rock audience, but I’m guessing that’s not what you will be aiming for somehow! The good news is that pub audiences love Oasis, so you should be OK there!

Gotta go now and get a shower before setting off for a pub gig tonight………….

[Adrenochrome]

The advice above is sound as regards PA, length of set etc.
Be warned that if you want to do it right then it'll end up as a part-time job, especially if you do a lot of the organising; I answer emails, speak to venues and update our diary and website pretty much every day.
The perks can be fantastic!

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='crez5150' post='454170' date='Apr 4 2009, 03:32 PM']Don't use agents as they are sh*te.... and never get you work that you want at the money you want....

Do pubs if you want to have a bit of a laugh and not too much pressure but don't expect to earn anything from it...[/quote]

+1 generally, don't be tied to an agent but getting the occasional club booking via an agent works fine for us.

[OldGit]

Listen to Crez, he knows what he is talking about...


Read the [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5436&st=0&p=56924&#entry56924"]Tips for Playing Weddings[/url]thread.
Read the [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8685&st=0&p=90010&#entry90010"]Guaranteed Floor Fillers[/url] thread for ideas of what works in various covers band types.

You will need at least 3x45 mins of material. That's about 45-50 tunes ('cos covers tunes last about 3 minutes on average) You'll probably need Mustang Sally and Valerie too ...

You will need your own PA and backline and lights, and some way or transporting them and somewhere to store them between gigs and insurance.
You will need it all PAT tested and you will also need Public Liability Insurance. Some venues won't let you play without it and will ask for your certificate before you set up.

The PA will need at least two monitors, a third one for the drummer is ideal so that they can hear what is being sung and what is being said in the talkie bits. That makes things happen in a more slick and professional way.

If I was starting from now I'd get a 16 channel mixer and 2 powered front of house speakers on stands and three powered monitors - probably from Mackie.
Plus radio mics, stands etc and you'll need all the cables to wire them all up and at least one spare of everything.
You'll need 16 channels so you can run small amounts of the back line through the PA for projection and thus play quieter on stage. You may need bass bins.
All in a PA like that will cost a fair amount but will make you sound a hell of a lot better than some ol' cheap poo off eBay

You will also need lights (there's a WIKI on that) [url="http://wiki.basschat.co.uk/info:industry:stage_lighting"]here[/url]

You will need a top front person. Without this key ingredient you will not do well.
There are ways of faking it - PM me and I'll tell you all about it ..
You'll almost certainly need that other rarity, a very versatile keyboard player.

Only taking on players who have no covers band experience will set you back about 2 years, in terms of being successful. Successful in this case is getting asked back for more than one gig in the same venue and earning enough to pay for your beer, petrol and PA.
Playing in a successful covers band needs a lot of skills that are totally different to originals bands gigs, especially the type you describe where you play short gigs using their PA and backline to a few mates.
You would be a lot better off getting a band full of well experienced covers band players who can help you learn how to do it well.
The fun bit is playing great gigs and getting paid well. Getting to that bit as fast as possible is a very good idea 'cos the bit before that is fairly pants.

There are many different audiences and many different "markets" for covers bands. Go and see successful bands do gigs in your area and the venues you fancy and work out why they are successful then emulate what they do.
Playing pubs is a mile away from any kind of function - wedding, corporate, services, balls .. and the difference in fee and what they expect of you reflects that.
The good news is that in general it's easier to build a following for regular pub filling than an originals band and in some places you don't have to take an audience, the venue does all the work (but see threads passim about how that doesn't always happen)
The bad news is that for the well paid gigs you need to be totally professional and organised, have someone doing the management bit (even if you don't call them a manager) talking to teh venues and punters, doing the contracts, someone doing the band diary, a deps list for when that gig you've had booked and contracted for 18 month is in jeopardy because your drummer calls up at 8 am on the day to say he has Delhi Belly... etc ...

You will need a lot of chutzpah to get gigs as a new band (this is also where the experienced people come in handy cos they can say "Remember me? I used to play here with "The Mon Moe Band" Can I bring my new band one Monday?" and get you a gig a totally new unknown band won't get.)
Otherwise you have to have a publicity pack, demos and other "proof" that you are a good band and will be worth risking a night on, and that's just for a pub... You may be able to bullsh1t your way in and build on that but it's a lot easier if you have the conventional sales material.

Also get a copy of [url="http://www.gig-getter.co.uk/indextest.htm"]Gig-Getter[/url] which is a book on how to get loads of pub gigs. £15 well spent

To get functions you'll need all that and a website - a real one, not a myspace, and great pictures, video and stuff like that. Not easy.

If your combative nature extends to your gigging life I'd forget it as you will be treated like poo, shouted at, rejected and challenged on a regular basis. You will not be the centre of attention at weddings and corperates and you will not be able to play drunk or drugged up. You will not be able to start late or finish late ,or early. You will not be able to chat during the bingo and if some drunk p1sses you off at a wedding you will not be able to smash them in the face ...

Yes the money is better but that's because a lot of the gigs are not nice to play. Pub gigs are a lot more fun, if you can find band mates who will work for a pittance ...


So overall ..

Good luck, there's loads of help around here and you've asked for it which is an excellent start .....
I think I'd join a covers band for a year or so to see how they work from the inside before starting one of my own.
Oh and if you start a band you will be looked upon to do the management stuff- make sure there are gigs, rehearsals, a set, a PA and lights, etc etc unless you also look for a manager.

and +1 don't use agents, there's no need these days and don't accept a social club gig early on. They will eat you alive.

Edited April 4, 2009 by OldGit

[Adrenochrome]

/\ that's some grade A advice OG!
You should write a book on it.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' post='454254' date='Apr 4 2009, 06:18 PM']/\ that's some grade A advice OG!
You should write a book on it.[/quote]

Funny you should say that

[wateroftyne]

It depends what your aim is.

Some of the most successful covers band round our way wouldn't touch Mustang Sally or Valerie with a 20ft stick. They have quite eclectic set lists.

You wouldn't get away with that outside of the pub circuit mind, but if you're only in it for fun & beer money, then it's do-able.

[acidbass]

[quote name='iamthewalrus' post='454147' date='Apr 4 2009, 03:00 PM']Doing these kinds of gigs will increase your musical knowledge & stretch you as a player. I've learned more about music by playing in covers bands than I ever did by playing originals.[/quote]

+1. You'll improve immeasurably playing regularly in a covers band once or twice a week. Learning a bit about the playing styles of the bassists you're covering is a valuable asset in the long term.

[BigBeefChief]

Cheers for all the exellent advice fellas, it really is appreciated.

I'm only looking to do pub gigs (initially at least), and I must admit, earning a bit of cash hasn't rally crossed my mind. If it covers costs then great.

I'm reasonably confident that I can pick a decent set list, I've seen a lot of covers bands in my time and think I have an idea of what works song-wise. I also appreciate that my tastes aren't always the audiences taste. Thankfully, I've done a lot of research in the form of being a p1ssed up punter over the years! (having said this, I'm sure everyone thinks they could, so half the songs will fall flat on their face!)

I also appreciated that until we build a following, it will be some time until we good the decent pub slots. I'm cool with his. Likewise, I take OG's advice onboard about joining an established act - this is clearly the sensible thing to do. However, I'm not sensible and always enjoy a bit of chaos! Thankfully, I'm mates with a few landlords that will happily give me a thursday night to practice my "craft", so we won't be diving in at the deepend.

In terms of equipment, what sort of bread would an average second-hand set up cost? Any ideas on this?

This made me smile:

[quote name='OldGit' post='454236' date='Apr 4 2009, 05:48 PM']If your combative nature extends to your gigging life I'd forget it as you will be treated like poo, shouted at, rejected and challenged on a regular basis.[/quote]


Combative! You must be thinking of someone else! I thought I was alright! My line of witty banter was developed and honed in the pubs of west kent and east sussex, the very same venues I hope to play. I'm actually a real charmer in person!

Anyway, once again, cheers for all the advice.

[pete.young]

[quote name='OldGit' post='454236' date='Apr 4 2009, 05:48 PM']If I was starting from now I'd get a 16 channel mixer and 2 powered front of house speakers on stands[/quote]

We've got some of these. I wouldn't buy them again. It's all very well when they're on the stands, but lifting the buggers on and off is a real PITA.

+1 for everything else. Sage advice.

Pete

[blamelouis]

[quote name='pete.young' post='454309' date='Apr 4 2009, 07:54 PM']We've got some of these. I wouldn't buy them again. It's all very well when they're on the stands, [size=4]but lifting the buggers on and off is a real PITA[/size].

+1 for everything else. Sage advice.

Pete[/quote]
Yeah ten seconds of hell !

[Golchen]

[quote name='chris_b' post='454129' date='Apr 4 2009, 02:39 PM']I'm in a covers band that gets a cheer when we start Stones or Small Faces numbers and absolutely nothing with Doors, Jackson Browne and Tom Petty covers.[/quote]


That would be me in the audience then ..................

[JohnSlade07]

Lots of good advice already. I've spent the last four years playing in a covers band around Kent, Sussex and very occasionally London. It's been a lot of hard work, but largely good fun. We mainly play weddings, corporate dos, masons gigs etc but also a few pub gigs. It takes a long time to build a decent setlist and a fair bit of investment in gear (e.g. PA etc if you haven't already got one) and organising gigs etc can also be time consuming. You may also have to play a few tunes that you personally loathe.

On the plus side you may get to make some good mates, a bit of money and you will probably improve enormously as a player. In my experience it's very rare to be treated badly, ignored etc, although I may just have been lucky of course. As long as people are responding - i.e. dancing, singing etc - then it's a good way to spend a Friday/Saturday night. You get the occasional lame gig, but you learn to not take it too personaly and it can be a useful learning tool. I spent far too many years playing in hopeless original bands and indulging the egos of various singer songwriters and regret not having got involved in a covers band earlier.

Good luck and go for it. Just keep the originals project going if you can as it's a nice counterbalance to then covers world.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='JohnSlade07' post='454331' date='Apr 4 2009, 08:32 PM']Lots of good advice already. I've spent the last four years playing in a covers band around Kent, Sussex and very occasionally London. It's been a lot of hard work, but largely good fun. We mainly play weddings, corporate dos, masons gigs etc but also a few pub gigs. It takes a long time to build a decent setlist and a fair bit of investment in gear (e.g. PA etc if you haven't already got one) and organising gigs etc can also be time consuming. You may also have to play a few tunes that you personally loathe.

On the plus side you may get to make some good mates, a bit of money and you will probably improve enormously as a player. In my experience it's very rare to be treated badly, ignored etc, although I may just have been lucky of course. As long as people are responding - i.e. dancing, singing etc - then it's a good way to spend a Friday/Saturday night. You get the occasional lame gig, but you learn to not take it too personaly and it can be a useful learning tool. I spent far too many years playing in hopeless original bands and indulging the egos of various singer songwriters and regret not having got involved in a covers band earlier.

Good luck and go for it. Just keep the originals project going if you can as it's a nice counterbalance to then covers world.[/quote]
+1

Some excellent advice here, especially OG's 'Rough Guide To..' Basschat at it's finest!

[thepurpleblob]

IMHO, the best way to pick material is to choose the appropriate, popular local radio station and listen to what they are playing. That would be a good start. You average Saturday night pub customer will have heard nothing else unfortunately. Having said that, my current covers band play whatever we like so we don't get that many gigs We don't care though... the bands that play three gigs a weekend every weekend are all out there doing "summer of 69" and suchlike.

[OldGit]

Thanks for the nice comments chaps ..

tBBC ..
Here's a setlist I lifted from someone on here a while back ...
I does have Mustang Sally and Valerie but the rest are almost all modern guitar based things ..

> Dakota- Stereophonics
> Sit down-James
> Live forever-oasis
> Why does it always rain on me- travis
> Laid-James
> Good Souls-Starsailor
> Stop and Stare-One Republic
> Getting Away with it- James
> Teenage kicks-Undertones
> Love it when you call- the Feeling
> American Idiot- Green Day
> Have a nice day-Stereophonics
> Twist and Shout- The Beatles
> Mustang Sally- The Commitments.
>
> Never Miss a Beat- kaiser Chiefs
> Monster- the Automatic
> Creep- Radiohead
> Sex on Fire-Kings of Leon
> Read my Mind-The Killers
> Starlight-Muse
> Yellow-Coldplay
> Dont look back in anger-Oasis
> Valerie-Mark Ronson
> Ruby - Kaiser Chiefs
> I predict a riot-Kaiser Chiefs
> All the Small Things-Blink 182
> Message in A Bottle-The Police
> Chasing Cars-Snow Patrol