Thinking of forming a covers band - Advice needed

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='whynot' post='514030' date='Jun 15 2009, 12:01 PM']Would always be nice to get paid more but then we may be in the 3k+ bracket and the 9 gigs we have this June would probably be down to 2 or 3.[/quote]

Too right but we are just glad to be working.

Again we are in a different league ot your band. Both my bands have just four people in two cars to get to gigs. we do all the setting up etc ourselves. We would of course charge way more if we had more overheads.

I can see why you and crez charge much more than us.

[Musicman20]

I'd love to even get given a pint for playing the shows we do.

Completely different type of band, and yes we are just about our music, and we are loud and heavy etc etc, but the promoter still makes money. We take away £40 petrol.

In out home town we play for free. I disagree with it, because me and the drummer are the most pro guys in the band, (not so much 'how tech are we', just proud of our gear and our playing).

This is an interesting thread...Ive been tempted by cover band stuff for years/ When I was 16 I was called into a semi pro indie band to lay down basslines for an EP...as their bassist left without saying anything. I was 16, they were about 25....then I joined and we played for about £300-£400 a show. Great experience.

Im 28, and now I get naff all, I get a hell of a lot of enjoyment, but I often think 'there has to be more than this'. DIY punk/hardcore is just a joke now; yeah its all about loving your music, except the promoter runs off with £200 and we dont even get a round of drinks.

Its more annoying when you spend about £1.5K on a new rig, and the promoter wants EVERY other band to use it. No....never again!

Sorry, totally off topic. But this is very interesting. Id love to be part of the indie scene again, and a covers band...seems they recognise the whole idea of money a lot more.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Musicman20

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='514057' date='Jun 15 2009, 12:26 PM']..seems they recognise the whole idea of money a lot more.

[/quote]

Well you dont think we sell our musical souls for the love of the music do you LOL.

Actually yeah, i do enjoy it, just not all the songs.

[lemmywinks]

We go out for between £500 and £800 for a wedding, sometimes more depending on distance. Thats enough for me and the guys (usually works out at £125 - £200 each. I'm happy with that as we usually have fun, we all enjoy playing and don't do it for a living although we can all play to a pretty high standard

Horses for courses i guess

[crez5150]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='514081' date='Jun 15 2009, 12:45 PM']Well you dont think we sell our musical souls for the love of the music do you LOL.

Actually yeah, i do enjoy it, just not all the songs.[/quote]

+1 ;o)

[Rich]

We get the occasional nice little earner -- New Year's Eves and so on -- but generally I do it for laughs and the love of playing, and enough cash to cover my diesel. Any more than that is a bonus.
There's 13 of us, so it's never going to be a living!

[crez5150]

13 Jeez.... I bet rehearsals are a nightmare Rich.....

[whynot]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='514041' date='Jun 15 2009, 12:12 PM']I can see why you and crez charge much more than us.[/quote]
My situation is a little different to Crez as his band appears self contained and clients go direct. With us it's the old story of several people having their finger in the pie before the band get paid, but band members don't have to deal with anything outside of the gig itself. Not complaining as thats the way this one works and think I get paid ok for what I do.
Luckily we are all friends and get on well and I get to play with some very talented people on a regular basis, plus the work is regular (just as well as we never rehearse).

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='whynot' post='514302' date='Jun 15 2009, 03:34 PM']My situation is a little different to Crez as his band appears self contained and clients go direct. With us it's the old story of several people having their finger in the pie before the band get paid, but band members don't have to deal with anything outside of the gig itself. Not complaining as thats the way this one works and think I get paid ok for what I do.
Luckily we are all friends and get on well and I get to play with some very talented people on a regular basis, plus the work is regular (just as well as we never rehearse).[/quote]

Actually i meant that you and Crez have a lot more people to spread the money around than we do.

Again, i think i get paid well enough for what i do and am glad of the work. More would be nicer but as we have no real overheads other than petrol for two cars we can aford to go out for what ever we can get (within reason).

I, and both drummers in my bands also have full time but semi-flexible jobs so we tend not to be bread heads too much.

[crez5150]

Well part of the reason why we charge the amount we do.... there are 6 of us

[farmer61]

Jeez, it's reading a thread like this that makes you realise how cheap my band are.

We're way out of this league although we will only take a booking for wedding if the punters have seen us. In fact it's on the back of us playing pubs that we get wedding bookings.

Ho hum.........

[OldGit]

[quote name='farmer61' post='514518' date='Jun 15 2009, 05:31 PM']Jeez, it's reading a thread like this that makes you realise how cheap my band are.

We're way out of this league although we will only take a booking for wedding if the punters have seen us. In fact it's on the back of us playing pubs that we get wedding bookings.

Ho hum.........[/quote]

Wish I could play a pub now and then ......

[bassicinstinct]

I do tend to "get on my soapbox" a bit on this subject.

In my experience, a band doesn't have to do too many gigs for £500 before they "become" a £500 band. It's not too bad if you remain ever conscious of it and vigilant about it, but it is horribly easy to drift into that situation - and many bands do.

It seems fairly obvious to me that5, if a venue can't or, more likely, [b]won't[/b][i][/i] pay you what you consider you are worth, they won't be booking you and they should be looking at cheaper bands.

I don't see that in any way as a failure as you will only ever price yourself out of a market you probably don't want to be in anyway!!

[risingson]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='514561' date='Jun 15 2009, 06:24 PM']I do tend to "get on my soapbox" a bit on this subject.

In my experience, a band doesn't have to do too many gigs for £500 before they "become" a £500 band. It's not too bad if you remain ever conscious of it and vigilant about it, but it is horribly easy to drift into that situation - and many bands do.

It seems fairly obvious to me that5, if a venue can't or, more likely, [b]won't[/b][i][/i] pay you what you consider you are worth, they won't be booking you and they should be looking at cheaper bands.

I don't see that in any way as a failure as you will only ever price yourself out of a market you probably don't want to be in anyway!![/quote]

I would agree with this a bit, although I think that if you're vigilant enough as a fledgling band then £500 is a fairly good starting off fee at a small club or pub venue. You just need to make sure you take on the private gigs off the back of public gigs at a more reasonable price for yourselves.

We make a point of going out once or twice every month now and playing a slightly lower payed gig at a public venue for two reasons: 1. it's fun, and 2. it gives a chance for clients to come and see us perform and decide if they would like to book us. This is usually to our benefit, as they've heard of us through word of mouth and almost definitely book us anyway.

From then on, we charge a fixed and competitive fee, and will add excess for travel, food, and accommodation should it apply. If the overall figure is considered too steep for a potential buyer, then we might consider doing the gig for less money should we not be particularly busy at that given time (a rarity), otherwise, that's it, and we'll politely tell them that they can't afford our band. Like it was mentioned, the business from people who can't affod you is expendable, at the end of the day you need to be a bit mercenary if you want to make money somewhere. Generally we have tapped into a market of 'word of mouth', that is to say we're pandering to an audience that we will almost 70-80% of the time get at least one booking off of, otherwise more.

Edited June 15, 2009 by liamcapleton

[dave_bass5]

When we first started doing the social clubs we were getting more than we were in pubs at the time.
After a few months we started asking for a bit more and for about 4-5 months got no work, from any off them.
These were all through an agent and he did warn us that the clubs pay peanuts but there are loads of band that will do them if we don't want them.
After a few months of doing nothing we agreed to go and do them at the going rate.
So that was another situation where the band either take it or leave it. We know of at least one 10 piece band that also play the same clubs and they get the same money as us. They do costume changes, the full works.
As they said to us at the time, they are working 7 days a week doing this. If they turned down the gigs they don't eat.
I'm just glad I'm only in a 4 piece band.

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='liamcapleton' post='514600' date='Jun 15 2009, 07:05 PM']I would agree with this a bit, although I think that if you're vigilant enough as a fledgling band then £500 is a fairly good starting off fee at a small club or pub venue. You just need to make sure you take on the private gigs off the back of public gigs at a more reasonable price for yourselves.

We make a point of going out once or twice every month now and playing a slightly lower payed gig at a public venue for two reasons: 1. it's fun, and 2. it gives a chance for clients to come and see us perform and decide if they would like to book us. This is usually to our benefit, as they've heard of us through word of mouth and almost definitely book us anyway.

From then on, we charge a fixed and competitive fee, and will add excess for travel, food, and accommodation should it apply. If the overall figure is considered too steep for a potential buyer, then we might consider doing the gig for less money should we not be particularly busy at that given time (a rarity), otherwise, that's it, and we'll politely tell them that they can't afford our band. Like it was mentioned, the business from people who can't affod you is expendable, at the end of the day you need to be a bit mercenary if you want to make money somewhere. Generally we have tapped into a market of 'word of mouth', that is to say we're pandering to an audience that we will almost 70-80% of the time get at least one booking off of, otherwise more.[/quote]

We seem to be pretty much in agreement - except that if I [b]NEVER[/b] do another private gig in my life, it'll be too soon.

I'm assuing that you mean private parties. If you're talking about corporate work then we are[b] TOTALLY [/b]in agreement.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='514617' date='Jun 15 2009, 07:23 PM']When we first started doing the social clubs we were getting more than we were in pubs at the time.
After a few months we started asking for a bit more and for about 4-5 months got no work, from any off them.
These were all through an agent and he did warn us that the clubs pay peanuts but there are loads of band that will do them if we don't want them.
After a few months of doing nothing we agreed to go and do them at the going rate.
So that was another situation where the band either take it or leave it. We know of at least one 10 piece band that also play the same clubs and they get the same money as us. They do costume changes, the full works.
As they said to us at the time, they are working 7 days a week doing this. If they turned down the gigs they don't eat.
I'm just glad I'm only in a 4 piece band.[/quote]


Too true.

A venue near me will only pay £300, fine for a little pub but this place is a big modern venue that makes a killing every night (restaurant upstairs, club downstairs). Felt a bit guilty telling them to stick it when there's an 8 piece band on every month who never complain

Still, they should get a proper job!

[risingson]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='514617' date='Jun 15 2009, 07:23 PM']When we first started doing the social clubs we were getting more than we were in pubs at the time.
After a few months we started asking for a bit more and for about 4-5 months got no work, from any off them.[/quote]

The places we play (and I don't mean to sound arrogant by this at all), we as a band pull the biggest crowds. I think the venues we play understand that to lose us would mean that all those people that know us and turn up for gigs won't be there anymore. It then becomes a position in which you have the ability to bargain with bars and alike... and that's not to say you should be greedy about it either, just realistic. Anyone can have that sort of bargaining chip if you're in a band that can pull a good crowd.

[quote]I'm just glad I'm only in a 4 piece band.[/quote]

Tell me about it... up until 3 months ago we were a 6 piece!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='liamcapleton' post='514640' date='Jun 15 2009, 07:40 PM']The places we play (and I don't mean to sound arrogant by this at all), we as a band pull the biggest crowds. I think the venues we play understand that to lose us would mean that all those people that know us and turn up for gigs won't be there anymore. It then becomes a position in which you have the ability to bargain with bars and alike... and that's not to say you should be greedy about it either, just realistic. Anyone can have that sort of bargaining chip if you're in a band that can pull a good crowd.[/quote]

Fair enough but i was talking about social clubs. These are members only clubs so you cant really take a crowd. They have a committee, will only use certain agents etc. Its not open for negotiation unless its a special event like NYE.

Beer is dirt cheap though. 4 pints of 1066 for uner £7 :-)

[risingson]

But if they weren't giving you a decent deal, why bother at all dealing with them? I understand completely where you're coming from, and I know money has to come from somewhere, but surely there has to be a better deal coming in from somewhere else. Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, just curious is all.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='liamcapleton' post='514655' date='Jun 15 2009, 07:55 PM']But if they weren't giving you a decent deal, why bother at all dealing with them? I understand completely where you're coming from, and I know money has to come from somewhere, but surely there has to be a better deal coming in from somewhere else. Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, just curious is all.[/quote]

No offence taken but its easier said then done.
First off thats the going rate so we arent getting ripped off or anything like that. We still go home with around £100 each, thats still more than i make per day in my day job.
25+ gigs a year still adds up to some decent money. If we gcould do weddings every week we would but we dont get offered that many so yes, money has to come form somewhere.
Look at the amount of bsas player on this site that get all excited becuase they have a gig coming up three months down the line etc. Some would jump at the chance to do even a pub gig and make a bit of money so who are we to turn regular work down.
I really do want to get paid more but the money isnt in the clubs. quite a few are closing down as the mebership is going down. And i dont hate this sort of gig either. We can look on them as a paid rehearsal.

[risingson]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='514668' date='Jun 15 2009, 08:04 PM']No offence taken but its easier said then done.
First off thats the going rate so we arent getting ripped off or anything like that. We still go home with around £100 each, thats still more than i make per day in my day job.
25+ gigs a year still adds up to some decent money. If we gcould do weddings every week we would but we dont get offered that many so yes, money has to come form somewhere.
Look at the amount of bsas player on this site that get all excited becuase they have a gig coming up three months down the line etc. Some would jump at the chance to do even a pub gig and make a bit of money so who are we to turn regular work down.
I really do want to get paid more but the money isnt in the clubs. quite a few are closing down as the mebership is going down. And i dont hate this sort of gig either. We can look on them as a paid rehearsal.[/quote]

That's fair enough, and I know the feeling about the paid rehearsal.

Money for us is definitely in private gigs. My idea this year for our band is that we can afford to be taking lower paying gigs on weeknights, but Friday Saturday we look towards taking more, and ideally more on weeknights if possible, which means residencies, agency bookings etc. I think if you travel as well then there should always be a gig for a band. You can drink the river dry if you want to make money as a band but only rely on local gigs.

[dave_bass5]

We do tend to blow the clubs out if a wedding etc comes in and we can give enough notice so they really are just fillers. Its just that we have a lot of them. It still beats staying home on a sat night.

[TimR]

We don't go out for less than £50 each, which is generally what a pub will pay. But we also do gigs where we get £300 each. We price to the event. Once you know the type of event, the venue and the number of guests you get a good idea of what to charge. If you want the gig then you have to price competitively.

If someone is willing to pay £3k+ for a band, they will have a huge hotel with separate rooms for meal and dancing, several hundred guests etc. If someone can "only" afford a function room and 200 guests then its likely that they will only have £1000 or less to spend. If its a 30th birthday in a social club then its going to be less than £500.

You just have to be a bit streetwise. You don't start at the top. By the time you're charging £1k+ you will have already built up a client base and have loads of people recommending you.

Unless you join a £3k band or have a lot of contacts, it takes some time to get to that stage.

You're not competing with a disco either. People either want a band or they don't. Usually people who want a band will book a disco as well (unless you can supply a DJ as well )

[OldGit]

We have a meeting each year and set guidelines for the Minister of bookings (me) to follow. ie we generally play three types of gigs, mostly. Weddings, birthdays and charities.
We have a base fee (plus expenses) for each type and seldom drop below that. Certain things can justify a drop in the price, or, indeed, increase it.
Anything vaguely unpleasant or in a tricky place will get a boosted fee. If they pay, fine. If they don't that's fine too as something else will come along for that date.
This way no one in the band gets uppity about the fee for a gig.

As I do all the booking and pre-gig liaison with the punters I can see the advantage of agency organised gigs but we never do them, even the ones where we get offered loadsamoney because they don't book us early enough to get in our diary.
And, the most important bit, they are generally unpleasant gigs to play. The type where the punter treats you like staff and the staff of the venue treat you like sheeet.
We have a few venues we don't play because of that.

I like Rich's situation. They play covers but they play what they like how they like. There's no money in it (on an annual basis) but they have lots of fun, a pretty big following and play nice venues to adoring fans. Worth it's weight in Roscoes, that.