lemmywinks Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Going a bit (more) OT, but just to put things into perspective: We did a wedding recently for £500. Turned up, set up, easy. DJ walks in and asks straight away if he can use our PA. We say no so he uses the hotels rig. After messing about with crackly leads (all through the house PA, so loads of loud popping and generally not-very-pleasant sounds, for about half an hour he asks us to cut our soundcheck short so he can continue to mess about. Eventually, as guests were starting to arrive, our guitarist (professional sound engineer) had to help him set his CD player up as he didn't know what he was doing. Later found out he "earnt" £300, couldn't even be arsed to bring his own PA Think we're in the wrong trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhay77 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Yeh know what you mean re Djs,or they do bring all there gear and a billion watts of lighting,complete with wembley stadium gantry,take up the whole stage,and then look amazed when you cant set up a full band in a 6x6ft,ahh I love em really. Again right about the £££ I would love to say 2k but we dont get those offers,were just not on the same circuit,also wrong music I think,but it is all about the right choice of songs or specific theme,time and place for everything and the fee reflects,leg work and hard work long days and late nights,but at the end of it all,covers,original or tribute band,Ive played in em all and I still love doin it and because I work full time its not for me about the money,I would rather have a great gig and a few quid in my sky rocket,than getting a wedge and not enjoying it,but thats just my two penneth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='mikhay77' post='514925' date='Jun 16 2009, 01:18 AM'],I would rather have a great gig and a few quid in my sky rocket than getting a wedge and not enjoying it, but that's just my two penneth[/quote] Yep.. We aim for a compromise where we enjoy it and get paid a reasonable amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Going back to DJs, i also find them to be a pain in the bum some times. Agree about the twitts who dont even bring a PA with them yet get paid more than each band member sometimes. We did a small wedding a few years ago. Similar situation to the above posts, DJ turns up and asks to use our PA. We said no and he started to panic as we were in a private garden (under cover of course) so no other sound system around. In the end we charged him £100 for the use of it. To be honest we would have said yes at some point as if not it would have ruined the party. Not our fault but not fair to the guests either. As the night went on he was getting more and more requests form the quests, nothing out of the ordinary, in fact we wended up playing a lot of them as the DJ didn't have them. We even had to lend him two ipods that we had with current songs on them. He then came over and told us he was booked until 5AM, we were due to finish at midnight. We had no choice but to break the gear down slowly, we took our time but once the last speaker had been unplugged all hell was let loose. I think the host understood what had happened but didnt say anything to us. We got a load of abuse from guests as we struggled through them with our gear and the DJ just dissapered during all of this. Next day we had a call from the Agent saying he had a bad report about us. We told him what happened and he understood but said we still should have stayed. Turns out the DJ was a mate of his, doesnt own a PA and the Agent had said it "should" be ok for him to use our gear. This was the only time we have told a Agent to get lost and wont work with him again. Since then when ever we are asked to use our PA we say no. Sorry, thats was just me rambling on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 This is why we have our own DJ...... He's spot on every time, act's as MC when we are off stage and is on hand during the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='515015' date='Jun 16 2009, 09:31 AM']This is why we have our own DJ...... He's spot on every time, act's as MC when we are off stage and is on hand during the show.[/quote] Yeah. we do our own DJ'ing as well although its more mixing off ipod with as little banter between tacks as we can get away with. We charge extra for it but a lot of the time we dont get asked and they just go and book a DJ anyway, normally its an in house one but sometimes its a mate of a mate type of thing or someone to play out the rest of the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 We do our own Disco thing if it's needed. Two fo our guys stay on and do it. they ar ethe ones who house teh PA so it works out well. they get paid extra too. It means the organisers don't have to hire a DJ as well as us and thus it makes our fee easier to justify. We also have to make sure they know that if they have a DJ we'll be breaking down soon after we finish and what the means fo lighting and gear movement, and not hanging around til the party ends ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 ...been caught with that one... "did nobody tell you the party doesn't finish until 3am. No you can't move your gear until then". Response is, "no problem, that's another £300 for the extra three hours". Either way you're onto a looser. After all you're "just" the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='515046' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:05 AM']...been caught with that one... "did nobody tell you the party doesn't finish until 3am. No you can't move your gear until then". Response is, "no problem, that's another £300 for the extra three hours". Either way you're onto a looser. After all you're "just" the band.[/quote] That's why you need pre-event meetings and a contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='515052' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:09 AM']That's why you need pre-event meetings and a contract.[/quote] Yes but that's where agents often manage to "forget" certain important details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Just my 2 pence worth on the use of agents & the level of professionalism at larger gigs. My old band (11 piece soul band) were fortunate enough to pick up a booking for a major London accountancy firm's annual party. It was in the main hall of the Natural History Museum (well - in the ante chamber behind the T-Rex skeleton!). We got the booking becuase we'd played a £1,000 wedding gig and someone in the audience worked for the accountants & recommended us. All the arrangements were handled by a pro agency who did all the liaison work with both the venue & the people who hired us. I couldn't believe how well organised they were. Every last detail was arranged in advance. Stuff like the exact layout of every band member on stage, instruments, mic requirements & preferences for make & model of mics right down to each drum mic! The killer for me was when they asked me to supply 'dietary requirements' - I guneinely thought they were winding me up, lol. When we arrived we were pre-booked through security & astonished to find out that we had our own private chef for the evening with a variety of foods he'd cook to order along with iced drinks & a selection of wines. Road crew had already marked out the stage for us & lighting rig was in place with spots set for the horn section & singers etc. We were treated really well by everyone all evening. From memory we got about £3K for the gig & the bookers took about 15% (not entirely sure about the % though). Personally I think they deserved every penny. We absolutely played our asses off & had a great evening Edited June 16, 2009 by molan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyJay Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='farmer61' post='514518' date='Jun 15 2009, 05:31 PM']Jeez, it's reading a thread like this that makes you realise how cheap my band are. We're way out of this league although we will only take a booking for wedding if the punters have seen us. In fact it's on the back of us playing pubs that we get wedding bookings. Ho hum.........[/quote] +1 for us too! I'm beginning to think we are criminally undercharging people! I was about to quote for a wedding gig next may £350 because I thought £400 was a bit steep for them! Might have a good thorough read of this and the [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5436"]pinned wedding gigs thread[/url] before I email them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='HeavyJay' post='515090' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:46 AM']+1 for us too! I'm beginning to think we are criminally undercharging people! I was about to quote for a wedding gig next may £350 because I thought £400 was a bit steep for them! Might have a good thorough read of this and the [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5436"]pinned wedding gigs thread[/url] before I email them back.[/quote] £350....!!!!!!!!! is that what you think you're worth as a band....c'mon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassicinstinct Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='crez5150' post='515101' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:57 AM']£350....!!!!!!!!! is that what you think you're worth as a band....c'mon.....[/quote] +1000!!! If you valued [b]yourselves [/b]at that level, you could hardly complain about being treated like trash by venues etc could you? Just IMHO and no offence intended, but really!! Edited June 16, 2009 by bassicinstinct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer61 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='515015' date='Jun 16 2009, 09:31 AM']This is why we have our own DJ...... He's spot on every time, act's as MC when we are off stage and is on hand during the show.[/quote] I've hated reading your posts in this thread, no sign of envy honest..... But this one has me thinking, how much gear does your DJ use for sound and lighting, I'm sure this could be a way forward.....We have lights and light controllers, not disco lighting I grant you but I would guess for a simple investment we could provide this service as well, we're already putting Ipods through our PA when necessary but to provide a DJ service is something I hadn't thought of....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HeavyJay' post='515090' date='Jun 16 2009, 10:46 AM']+1 for us too! I'm beginning to think we are criminally undercharging people! I was about to quote for a wedding gig next may £350 because I thought £400 was a bit steep for them! Might have a good thorough read of this and the [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5436"]pinned wedding gigs thread[/url] before I email them back.[/quote] Here's my view. If your drummer (say) dies in a horrible road accident two days before what are you going to do? Is £350 enough to get you out of the hole without (worst case) suffering a big loss? That's why you charge plenty for weddings - it's insurance. If someone can't do it you have to hire someone in. If your amp breaks you have to go and get a new one. The show must go on, as they say... Edited June 16, 2009 by thepurpleblob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bassicinstinct' post='515107' date='Jun 16 2009, 11:07 AM']+1000!!! If you valued [b]yourselves [/b]at that level, you could hardly complain about being treated like trash by venues etc could you? Just IMHO and no offence intended, but really!! [/quote] I dont agree there. We have done gigs for £2000 and still get treated badly by venues. Nothing you can do really but i wouldn't say its based on how much you are getting paid. I guess if you are a big unit they might take you more seriously but from my experience its down to the person running the event. We have encountered some right cows over the years but also a lot of nice people that understand you aren't lower than the rats in the kitchen. Again, im only talking about the circuit/level we are on. Edited June 16, 2009 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer61 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='bassicinstinct' post='515107' date='Jun 16 2009, 11:07 AM']+1000!!! If you valued [b]yourselves [/b]at that level, you could hardly complain about being treated like trash by venues etc could you? Just IMHO and no offence intended, but really!! [/quote] Just wondered why how much you charge as a band changes how you should be treated by venues. We don't go out for much more that this an we've hardly ever been treated poorly, on the contrary we've had nothing but respectful treatment from all the venues we currently play. If we get treated like sh*te we don't go back. Admittedly it's a paid hobby, can't see the link between how much you choose to charge and how your treated, and if there is what's the benchmark for good treatment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer61 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='515113' date='Jun 16 2009, 11:13 AM']Here's my view. If your drummer (say) dies in a horrible road accident two days before what are you going to do? Is £350 enough to get you out of the hole without (worst case) suffering a big loss? That's why you charge plenty for weddings - it's insurance. If someone can't do it you have to hire someone in. If your amp breaks you have to go and get a new one. The show must go on, as they say...[/quote] IMO Yes it is enough, because I wouldn't look at the fee we're getting for this one gig, I'd take a much longer term view in terms of fees. Just because you don't charge the same amount doesn't mean that your not as professional. I could cite many top bands who bale out of playing gigs beacause of the smallest reasons and cheapo bands like mine who will do almost anything to make the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='farmer61' post='515121' date='Jun 16 2009, 11:23 AM']IMO Yes it is enough, because I wouldn't look at the fee we're getting for this one gig, I'd take a much longer term view in terms of fees. Just because you don't charge the same amount doesn't mean that your not as professional. I could cite many top bands who bale out of playing gigs beacause of the smallest reasons and cheapo bands like mine who will do almost anything to make the gig.[/quote] I think you may have misread me. I was coming from the point of view that you would be professional. I agree that the amount you charge has nothing to do with your attitude and level of professionalism. You don't just get that in music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyJay Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='bassicinstinct' post='515107' date='Jun 16 2009, 11:07 AM']+1000!!! If you valued [b]yourselves [/b]at that level, you could hardly complain about being treated like trash by venues etc could you? Just IMHO and no offence intended, but really!! [/quote] None taken! We've never been treated badly doing wedding and function gigs though, maybe it's because they know they're getting a massive bargain! I think the thing about us valuing ourselves at that level is that when we booked the gigs we were still relatively new to the covers / functions scene and were a bit nervous about the business side of it all and what we were worth, we've always know we were good (my bass playing leaves a bit to be desired but the band is brill!) Now we're getting a bit more savvy but have already agreed these prices and to double the price (or more) for similar gigs feels a bit uncomfortable. Anyway, much food for thought and great advice in these 'ere pages so I shall read on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer61 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='515123' date='Jun 16 2009, 11:25 AM']I think you may have misread me. I was coming from the point of view that you would be professional. I agree that the amount you charge has nothing to do with your attitude and level of professionalism. You don't just get that in music [/quote] Probably did misread Just thought you were stating that that's why people charge so much for weddings to cover this eventuality. Mind you if something horrible did happen to our drummer, we'd have to cancel the wedding casue we'd be partying....Sorry Ian if you read this, just joshing........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [quote name='farmer61' post='515121' date='Jun 16 2009, 11:23 AM']IMO Yes it is enough, because I wouldn't look at the fee we're getting for this one gig, I'd take a much longer term view in terms of fees. Just because you don't charge the same amount doesn't mean that your not as professional. I could cite many top bands who bale out of playing gigs beacause of the smallest reasons and cheapo bands like mine who will do almost anything to make the gig.[/quote] You may be as professional but part of the reason for charging the higher amounts is that there is a lot of leg work involved in becoming more professional..... Advertising (not cheap at all), Trade shows, Pro kit, Back up kit, Pro cables (very important and not cheap), transportation, attire, business stationery, web site maintenance, mail shots.... the list is endless........ £350 per gig is not gonna cover that level of professionalism for very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyJay Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bassicinstinct' post='515107' date='Jun 16 2009, 11:07 AM']+1000!!! If you valued [b]yourselves [/b]at that level, you could hardly complain about being treated like trash by venues etc could you? Just IMHO and no offence intended, but really!! [/quote] A bit of a wake up call, however badly we get treated, it could be worse: [url="http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSTRE55E2Z520090615?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews"]A lot worse[/url] Edited June 16, 2009 by HeavyJay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 [i]"Khan said Taliban fighters shaved the heads of the musicians and made them take oaths in the presence of villagers that they would not sing or play music at weddings again."[/i] See what happens when you play Mustang Sally!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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