Fender-v-Squier

[TheGreek]

Interesting video on where the production money is spent and whether you can justify the extra money.

 

 

[Bassfinger]

I think the main difference that justifies the price is about 15 dollars an hour to the workers that make them.

 

The top end Squiers are well in the average Fender ballpark, and the cheap Squiers are deliberately made for a different market. 

 

But the slightly all-knowing comment about the Fender bass being used by top flight musicians seems to delibetarely overlook the fact that the likes of Jeff Healey, George Harrison, Mike Dirnt, Jack White, and a host of others have all used Squier guitars or basses live or in the studio.

 

How it sounds, feels and plays is what matters, and if the one with the cheap components meets a players needs then who is anyone else to suggest that they should not do so because it is cheaper, and I ask as both a Squier and Fender owner myself? Im sure he never meant to, but he did come across a little bit patronising in his summing up at the end.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Bassfinger
Laughing at Family Guy

[Boodang]

What I've done with my last 2 basses is to buy Squiers then replace the pups, electronics, bridge and nut. It comes in cheaper than a fully blown Fender but I have exactly the hardware I want.

[Nothingman]

A timely video for me. 
 

I have it in my head that I need to get a player/Mexican fender. However top brass Squier (modded over time) may be a better option. 
 

is it CV/VM that we top of the range? 

[Lozz196]

I do think that the pricing is on the right slope, from Squier to Fender US, but I think there’s too much of a gap between them, I’d price them:

 

Squier Affinity - as they are, £225ish

Squier CV - as they are, £400ish

Mex Fender - £650ish

US Fender - £1000ish

 

And then aside from artist sig models remove a lot of the “in between” ones. Keep it a bit more simple. But then that’s not the way to make mega bucks.

 

 

[Woodinblack]

The increase in price is purely down to the markup at the bottom. So you have a squier which costs £50 in parts at pure cost level, once you add labour and markup you end up at £300, whereas the american professional you use £120 of parts, and by the time you have more labour and markup it ends up in the £1000s. 

The main difference in the American vs Mexican vs Indonesians is the cost of the premises and the workforce. 

Very small price differences in the parts make quite huge differences by the time it is hanging in the shop

 

[kodiakblair]

10 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

I think the main difference that justifies the price is about 15 dollars an hour to the workers that make them.

Are wages relevant ?

 

The Corona plant employs between 300 to 400 people and produces 350 instruments per day , say 350 staff produce 350 guitars . Shifts are 9 hours with , according to "Payscale.com" , an average of $18 ph ; $162 a day. Cheapest USA guitar is the Telecaster Performer at $1300 retail , labour accounts for 8%.

 

The Zhunyi Shenqu factory in China employs 600 people producing 1650 guitars per day , 2.75 guitars each. Shifts are also 9 hours , paying just $5.30 ph ; $47.7 a day.

Zhunyi build for Ibanez and cheapest Ibanez I could find was the Mikro at $150. Total for 2.75 of those is $412.50, labour again accounts for 8% of retail.

 

Two factories with polar opposite prices and wages yet the same labour costs.

 

Thing that interests me is the wages.

 

Living wage calculator for Corona gives $24.72 as minimum rate for each adult in a family of 2 adults and 2 kids , FMIC's $18 average lets those folks down.

 

Living wage for Guizhou Province ( where Zhunyi are located) is given as $3.06 for each adult in a family of 2 adults and 2 kids. On $5.30 the Zhunyi folks are doing better than some of their USA counterparts.

 

 

[Bassfinger]

I may be missing something here, but to the prospective purchaser 8% of not very much, say a £220 Squier, is a lot less than 8% of a helluva lot, such as a $2000 MIA Fender.

[kodiakblair]

@Bassfinger

 

Good point , wonder what the $1832 left over from the $2000 bass is going on ?

 

[steve-bbb]

Anybody still not sure, ask to see my wizard loaded squier vm P at the next bass bash 😜

[neepheid]

I've seen people play amazing sets using Squiers and a rag tag assortment of amps and cabs. I would gig a £200 Squier Affinity without batting an eyelid and feel nothing but pity for anyone who looks down on me for it.

 

Honi soit qui mal y pense, and all that.

 

Some may point out that I have a USA G&L but as it's an L-1000 (a bass I had admired for some time) I didn't have much of a choice. There is no Tribute model - hell, for the longest time there wasn't even an option to buy one new. But if there had been a Tribute L-1000, I'd have saved myself the best part of a grand and got that instead, Tributes are fine* basses.

 

Tangent alert!

 

*Fine as in wine, not fine as in "acceptable". Also see use of the word fine in NE Scotland - pronounced a certain way means "very good indeed" instead of merely acceptable, often prefixed with "fit" (what) - the delightfully alliterative interjection "fit fine!" (often heard after telling someone you're having mince and tatties for tea) can be loosely translated into "very good!", "Aw man, you lucky so-and-so, I wish I was having mince and tatties for tea" or the rhetorical "how good is that?".

 

Want another bonus NE Scotland thing? The word "rare" can be used in a similar way. Very confusing when applied to commonly occurring items. "I played a rare Squier Affinity P bass the other day" ... Also it is theoretically possible up here to have a RARE well done steak - although you should be having it medium at the very most, you heathen

[Supernaut]

Judge with your ears and not your eyes. 

[ubit]

2 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

Judge with your ears and not your eyes. 

 

 

I agree but I also disagree as looks are very important too.

[Supernaut]

Just now, ubit said:

 

 

I agree but I also disagree as looks are very important too.

If the bass is a looker it's a bonus. But you can't see what a bass looks like on a recording. 

[Velarian]

If any further proof is needed here’s BC’er @vbnd gigging with a Squier Affinity P-Bass in fine style:

 

 

[shoulderpet]

I'm not saying that Squiers are not not good instruments, some of them are really good but imo overall Fender basses will be more consistent than Squier.

 

I'm not hating on Squier but Squier, MIM Fender and MIA Fender are all built to different price points and Fender has to make sure they are sufficiently different to avoid people buying there cheaper instruments when they would otherwise buy there more expensive instruments

[Bassfinger]

Fender more consistent? They're famous for their variable quality. I had to try three Geddy Lee Jazz's to find one that wasn't flawed.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Supernaut said:

If the bass is a looker it's a bonus. But you can't see what a bass looks like on a recording. 

I wonder how many people buy an instrument that sounds great but looks awful (to them)? Looks mean a lot more to many. 
 

Fundamentally a £300 Squier can sound identical to a £5,000 custom super J/P. It may even play the same. So what are you paying for? Quality of materials really boils down to fancier-looking woods that the manufacturer has been more choosy with, and a more time spent finishing and setting up the instrument (which doesn’t necessarily mean better playability).
 

I did see some industry figures years ago for large scale instrument production costs and although it’s out of date due to labour, material and shipping price hikes in recent years, it’s pretty clear that a painted bass with standard hardware manufactured at scale costs surprisingly little, once the cost of tooling is recouped. Companies like Fender tend not to spend a lot on R&D (although they must have done in the past when introducing models, with little success due to the very conservative buying public!) as they are effectively churning out the same instruments with colour and name changes and relatively minor tweaks (high mass bridge, lighter tuners, neck join profiling).
 

With the US models you are paying for a hard case instead of a gig bag, the higher labour rate (even if the proportion of the total cost is the same, the monetary amount is more), generally more attractive woods and marginally more expensive hardware and electronics - and the name and country of origin being the US - which is by far the largest reason for the huge price hike  

Edited November 22, 2021 by FDC484950

[Supernaut]

All Fenders are overpriced. 

[martthebass]

13 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

All gigs are underpaid. 

Fixed

[MacDaddy]

I have a Japanese Squier Silver Series Telecaster guitar. IIRC Squier Japan, became Fender Japan?

Anyhow, once I had the neck reshaped it became the perfect guitar. For me  

I've played more expensive Fender Telecasters, but the feel and sound are not any better. To me  

[martthebass]

My most gigged bass is a Squier Mikey Way Mustang, it could do with a slightly hotter pickup (to make it perfection), but 200 gigs in it's standing the test of time and owes me bugger all.   

Edited November 22, 2021 by martthebass

[BigRedX]

On 21/11/2021 at 15:16, Supernaut said:

If the bass is a looker it's a bonus. But you can't see what a bass looks like on a recording. 

 

For most musicians the recording is no longer the main source of musical income. Its the gig where how an instrument looks is probably as important as how it sounds.