where to get cheap valves?

[matt_citizenbass]

i've finally sorted out a soundcity 120 from thornybank on here.

only problem is it comes without valves.

now this beast apparently takes 6 EL34s and 3 12AX7s

where can i get these on the cheap? i'm not looking for absolute tone but i am looking for it to work so i can use it asap.


any suggestions chaps/ettes?


thanks,
Matt

[Hamster]

Nothing like shopping around - try these:-

[url="http://www.chelmervalve.co.uk/index.htm"]http://www.chelmervalve.co.uk/index.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.watfordvalves.com/"]http://www.watfordvalves.com/[/url]

[url="http://www.hotroxuk.com/"]http://www.hotroxuk.com/[/url]

[url="http://stores.ebay.co.uk/COLOMOR-VALVES-TUBES-COMPONENTS"]http://stores.ebay.co.uk/COLOMOR-VALVES-TUBES-COMPONENTS[/url]

[url="http://www.tubetown.de/index.html"]http://www.tubetown.de/index.html[/url]

[Tinman]

I bought some from these guys and found them reasonably priced

[url="http://www.voc-rock-guitars.com/index.html"]http://www.voc-rock-guitars.com/index.html[/url]

Much cheaper than Watford valves for sure.

Pete

[pete.young]

Got my JJ teslas from Eurotubes. [url="http://www.eurotubes.com/"]http://www.eurotubes.com/[/url]

You want a matched set of EL34s or equivalent for the power stage.

[matt_citizenbass]

thansk for the links guys,
i'm not sure about this whole matching thing!

what is it all about?


so that doesn't mean i can buy (for instance) 6 different El34s from 6 different shops. or even a pack of 4 then a pack of 2?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='matt_citizenbass' post='454672' date='Apr 5 2009, 02:00 PM']thansk for the links guys,
i'm not sure about this whole matching thing!

what is it all about?[/quote]

Balanced valves give less hum, but other than that, no major benefits IIRC. There are variations in construction, output and character between the various mfrs and different types of EL-34, so I'd recommend you buy 6 of the same brand and type of el-34 - matched or unmatched.

The most important thing is getting your new set of output valves biased. Unless you've got the gear and knowledge, you'll want to take it to a tech for that job. And (unless Thornybank already had it done) the amp may need a check-up anyhow - capacitors, transformers etc.

If you've got a good amp tech, ask their opinion on which EL-34's they recommend for the task, then best put everything in their hands.

[umph]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='454723' date='Apr 5 2009, 03:31 PM']Balanced valves give less hum, but other than that, no major benefits IIRC. There are variations in construction, output and character between the various mfrs and different types of EL-34, so I'd recommend you buy 6 of the same brand and type of el-34 - matched or unmatched.

The most important thing is getting your new set of output valves biased. Unless you've got the gear and knowledge, you'll want to take it to a tech for that job. And (unless Thornybank already had it done) the amp may need a check-up anyhow - capacitors, transformers etc.

If you've got a good amp tech, ask their opinion on which EL-34's they recommend for the task, then best put everything in their hands.[/quote]
matched sets have a similar current draw, thus bias the same since most amps don't have seperate bias pots for each valve. getting unmatched valves can lead to some very nasty crossover distortion and the amp not putting out as much wattage as it could be doing

[Marcus]

Rule No1

Don't buy cheap valves !

[umph]

[quote name='Marcus' post='454794' date='Apr 5 2009, 05:38 PM']Rule No1

Don't buy cheap valves ![/quote]
or used ;p

[nick]

One of the best advisers on valves (IMO), is someone who goes under the moniker of 'Oxblood', residing on [url="http://www.finnbass.com"]Finnbass[/url]. Shoot a post there, you'll get some some practical advice, along with the good responses here.

Edited April 5, 2009 by nick

[Hamster]

[quote name='nick' post='455036' date='Apr 5 2009, 11:44 PM']One of the best advisers on valves (IMO), is someone who goes under the moniker of 'Oxblood', residing on [url="http://www.finnbass.com"]Finnbass[/url]. Shoot a post there, you'll get some some practical advice, along with the good responses here.[/quote]


Zerofret on this forum is also a bit of a valve aficionado

[Skybone]

[quote name='umph' post='454728' date='Apr 5 2009, 03:36 PM']matched sets have a similar current draw, thus bias the same since most amps don't have seperate bias pots for each valve. getting unmatched valves can lead to some very nasty crossover distortion and the amp not putting out as much wattage as it could be doing[/quote]

+1

If in doubt, talk to any techie type guitarist (if you know of any around your way), but as umph said, the valves need to be matched so that they have the same current draw, getting them installed and the bias checked by a reliable amp tech is also very important. Too much variation could well harm your incredibly important Output Transformer, and replacing that will be very expensive!

And don't forget that the voltages and ampages flying around in your amp when it's switched on are more than enough to kill you.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Skybone

[SS73]

[quote name='umph' post='454728' date='Apr 5 2009, 03:36 PM']matched sets have a similar current draw, thus bias the same since most amps don't have seperate bias pots for each valve. getting unmatched valves can lead to some very nasty crossover distortion and the amp not putting out as much wattage as it could be doing[/quote]
Getting the most from the amp as you say, matching and biasing will get the whole thing running smoothly and in harmony, giving it a longer life, but this matching and biasing plus the newest craze of cryo freezing is all quite 'hifi' and new to rock n roll, some of the best music was recorded on miss matched un biased valves which were probably on thier last legs.
Saying that I religiously adj the bias on my V8 every month, but only cos I can.

[Thornybank]

Errrmmm....

I supplied 5 PM premium Chinese 12AX7s at only £9 each.
They reside under their can covers behind the shielding plate.

Also, the amp has had the bias adjusted to take a range of valves.
If they are new htey whould just pop in and be happy together.

SC120s have 6 valves, so nothing is overworked. I have seen them running on only 2 valves.
Pushing about 22 watts. Loud as &*%$ still. And those partridge transformers didn't care a jot.
It is only the goofy active preamp that keeps them from being boutique grade classics. And you can strip that out and replace it - or put in a bypass and run them with an outboard pre...

Cheers

Chris

PS Plenty more Sound Cities in the stack...

Edited April 10, 2009 by Thornybank

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='umph' post='454728' date='Apr 5 2009, 03:36 PM']matched sets have a similar current draw, thus bias the same since most amps don't have seperate bias pots for each valve. getting unmatched valves can lead to some very nasty crossover distortion and the amp not putting out as much wattage as it could be doing[/quote]

Crossover distortion is a result of 'cold biasing'.

Most multi-valve amps don't have separate bias pots for each valve because you don't bias a single valve in isolation. And many older amps don't even have bias pots - they're fixed bias and you just swap out the relevant resistor. And on later Silverface Fenders, there's just a hum-balance pot, which fulfils the function of dialling out hum by [i]balancing[/i] the tubes. The whole point of balancing is that it recognises that tubes can be unmatched. Hence, you can pay through the nose for a 'matched set' or you can balance an unmatched set. And any good tech is going to check and adjust the balance, irrespective of whether the mfr says the tubes are 'matched'.

Agreed, in something monstrous like an SVT or a VBA, matching is more important - but for the OP's amp, it would only be ludicrously unmatched valves way beyond manufacturers tolerances for the type (or fitting wildly different types) which could be a problem, but, unless you're buying the cheapest of chinese firecrackers, the variation between two / four / six tubes on a single production run is unlikely to affect matters to any significant degree assuming the amp is correctly biased.

Biasing is far more important to tone and valve life than spuriously "matched" tube sets. Until Aspen Pittman came up with the 'matched tube' voodoo 20 or so years ago, output valves were pulled off the shelf and fitted any old how, then balanced in the amp. Stock Marshall Plexis - unmatched. Stock Tweed Bassmen - unmatched. Stock Top-boost AC30's - unmatched.

In fact, slightly unbalanced tubes can usefully emphasise even order distortion, which for many, including me, enhances the musicality of the amp.

Edited April 12, 2009 by skankdelvar

[Kiwi]

Hotrox now charges for shipping making them less competitive than before. I'm planning on sourcing the 6 KT77's I'm looking to buy off Ebay.

[pete.young]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='461285' date='Apr 13 2009, 03:39 PM']Hotrox now charges for shipping making them less competitive than before. I'm planning on sourcing the 6 KT77's I'm looking to buy off Ebay.[/quote]

6?

Eurotubes has JJ Teslas at $18 plus shipping, BnB Tubes on ebay seem to be able to beat that. Pretty good.

What are these Genelex Golden Lions - are they a remake of the original KT77 Golden Lions as fitted to later Burmans?

[Kiwi]

[quote name='pete.young' post='461366' date='Apr 13 2009, 05:55 PM']6?

Eurotubes has JJ Teslas at $18 plus shipping, BnB Tubes on ebay seem to be able to beat that. Pretty good.

What are these Genelex Golden Lions - are they a remake of the original KT77 Golden Lions as fitted to later Burmans?[/quote]
I believe they are, but whether the price difference between the Genelex and the JJ is justified in terms of sound quality I couldn't say.

6 tubes - four for one of the bass heads, two for the Pro501 I now own.

[pete.young]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='461374' date='Apr 13 2009, 06:09 PM']6 tubes - four for one of the bass heads, two for the Pro501 I now own. [/quote]

Smart - a scale model of a guitar amp ;-)

That explains the new avatar - it didn't look like a Pro 4000 to me.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='pete.young' post='461540' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:58 PM']Smart - a scale model of a guitar amp ;-)[/quote]
I've got it running on one EL34 at the moment (25w or so) and its still too bloody loud.

[quote name='pete.young' post='461540' date='Apr 13 2009, 08:58 PM']That explains the new avatar - it didn't look like a Pro 4000 to me.[/quote]
There was a logo change at some point, the Pro4000 head I sold you and my mint head both have a sans serif logo. The earlier Pro4000 I have has got the script logo like the Pro501. But yes, that logo in my avatar is off the guitar combo.

[bumfrog]

just a quick note to say tubedepot [url="http://www.tubedepot.com/"]http://www.tubedepot.com/[/url] is a great place to get stuff, and they'll even mark down the customs packets for you so you hopefully won't get stung. I've ordered tubes and speakers from them in the past, never had any problems

[pete.young]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='461608' date='Apr 13 2009, 09:49 PM']I've got it running on one EL34 at the moment (25w or so) and its still too bloody loud.[/quote]

LOL. Hotpad, anyone? I'm sure you can imagine what a Pro 2000 is capable of then - the hugest loudest cleanest sound in the world. Gave a Mesa half stack a very very good run for it's money at a recent gig. But also the heaviest :-{