Jump to content
Why become a member? ×

The law of diminishing returns, Tonewood and other folly’s


tegs07

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, martthebass said:

lemon oil or not to lemon oil ....

 

“Matters of great concern should be treated lightly.” Master Ittei commented, “Matters of small concern should be treated seriously.”


Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai.

 

Decorum please. That is serious business.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

I think one also need to consider whether we are talking about the ‘one’ true bass that represents one’s personal sound and search for True Tone.. or a collection of instruments that embody the sound of ‘western’ music in terms of certain vintage or modern Precision or Jazz or musicman or whatever ( hofner, Ricky etc etc).. what are we getting from a return on investment from a bass? Are we getting a true recreation and experience from an instrument of a certain album, period or song? is it the playing experience ( the neck feel, the pickup/preamp sound sculpting ability) or is it the amount we can expect to get back from the instrument at resell? Also to be noted the above quote is so true the more you spend the more subtle the differences appear.. 
 

Edited by thewebow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, neepheid said:

Is this why I'm such a mediocre player, because I have all this superfluous stuff swimming around in my head instead of important things like "what comes next in this song I'm playing?" ;)

 

Totally agree. If I spent the same amount of time worrying about theory and technique I’m pretty sure I’d pay for the more expensive basses I have lusted over!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 22/11/2021 at 15:36, Boodang said:

I've got a custom Sei, not cheap, and a Squier Jazz, cheap. One doesn't play or sound better than the other but obviously with the Sei it's made to my custom requirements and that's going to cost. And the Sei's attention to detail is way beyond the Squier but that doesn't make it sound better, it's just nice to have.

I think what I object to is something like the Wal bass that's currently up for sale at £6500!! There's no way a bolt on neck, solid wood bass is worth this (don't get me wrong,  they're great basses, I've owned a few, but they're not actually worth this kind of money). 

If I went to a luthier to have a bass made I don't think it would be possible to make it cost that amount no matter what spec I ordered.

As for the £400 theoretical limit, well, my Squier now has custom pups, huge improvement, custom electronics, and a new bridge and nut! Diminishing returns of investment but does sound better than stock (sounds great actually) and way less than a Wal.

I own a Wal Mk 1 fretless, and its a phenomenal instrument, and in my opinion worth every penny of what I would have to pay to replace it. If you want a Wal, you have a choice: order one today and wait the 3 years that I believe is the current lead time, or pay what the second hand market wants. It's not logical to say a second-hand Wal "isn't worth it", because by definition it's worth whatever it sells for! You could argue that a new one is overpriced (I wouldn't, but you could), but the market sets the price for a used one

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, neilp said:

I own a Wal Mk 1 fretless, and its a phenomenal instrument, and in my opinion worth every penny of what I would have to pay to replace it. If you want a Wal, you have a choice: order one today and wait the 3 years that I believe is the current lead time, or pay what the second hand market wants. It's not logical to say a second-hand Wal "isn't worth it", because by definition it's worth whatever it sells for! You could argue that a new one is overpriced (I wouldn't, but you could), but the market sets the price for a used one

One could also argue that the price of used ones goes some way to underpinning the price of the new ones. Same with crazy high priced Fender Custom Shop offerings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Just now, tegs07 said:

A real man would use a length of barbed wire 

I was thinking thick chain, screwed into the body with eyelets (I’m sure some metal guitarist has one of those, maybe Zakk?).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 23/11/2021 at 00:28, MacDaddy said:

A CNC machine in China, a CNC machine in the USA. With the same materials and parts what is the difference in quality?

 

But as with @Boodang and their Sei's, my Shuker's have been built to my custom designs and body measurements, and will last a lifetime :) 

It helps if the CNC operators know how to place the wood on the platform accurately so that it's centred and square.  I have a couple of mahogany/maple laminated guitar necks where the laminates are maybe 3mm out of true to the centre line of the neck.  It probably won't affect playability but it's irksome anyway.

 

I also had to send two strat necks back because the twonk who had cut the fret slots firstly recycled an old ebony fingerboard that already had slots in it, he just flipped it over after thicknessing and glued the old fretted side to the neck.  Secondly the new slots were cut perpendicular to one side of the fingerboard, not the centre of the neck so the frets were out of true with the nut. Luckily for me the sales rep was honourable and sent through two more necks that were made correctly to spec.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, zbd1960 said:

Imagine the endless debate over the choice of aggregate for a concrete guitar... "Hey man, it's got to be MOT for that real hardcore sound...." 

Jaco didn't need 5mm screened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beats me why hollow composite e' guitars and basses aren't deriguer by now. Clearly ''tonewood'' is a crock in a solid body. So long as it can hold up the neck and the bridge it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

 

There's an old saying that translates to "you can't fool all of the guitarists and bassists all of the time''. And yet here we are nearly universally literally lumbering under timber basses and guitars.

Edited by Downunderwonder
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Kiwi said:

It helps if the CNC operators know how to place the wood on the platform accurately so that it's centred and square.  I have a couple of mahogany/maple laminated guitar necks where the laminates are maybe 3mm out of true to the centre line of the neck.  It probably won't affect playability but it's irksome anyway.

 

I also had to send two strat necks back because the twonk who had cut the fret slots firstly recycled an old ebony fingerboard that already had slots in it, he just flipped it over after thicknessing and glued the old fretted side to the neck.  Secondly the new slots were cut perpendicular to one side of the fingerboard, not the centre of the neck so the frets were out of true with the nut. Luckily for me the sales rep was honourable and sent through two more necks that were made correctly to spec.

 

Those sorts of mistakes can happen anywhere in the world as soon as you take away the need for the people running the machines to actually understand the basic principles of luthiery and why certain construction decisions are being made. Leo Fender started it all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

Those sorts of mistakes can happen anywhere in the world as soon as you take away the need for the people running the machines to actually understand the basic principles of luthiery and why certain construction decisions are being made. Leo Fender started it all.

Kind of, it doesn't take an understanding of luthiery to make sure something is aligned properly. This kind of issue is due to willful ignorance or poor training.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

Those sorts of mistakes can happen anywhere in the world as soon as you take away the need for the people running the machines to actually understand the basic principles of luthiery and why certain construction decisions are being made. Leo Fender started it all.

Arguably Henry Ford started it and allowed the masses to get their mitts on expensive luxury items. Generally quality goes up and prices come down. Occasionally there are mistakes and companies reputations can suffer if they aren’t rectified.

There are obvious environmental issues as well as alienated and low wage workers as a result but that’s another issue. 

That said in 2022 an aspiring muso can head out with less than £200 in their pocket and pick up an instrument that with a basic setup  would be good enough to record and gig with even at the highest level if no snobbery was involved.

This is the legacy of Ford/Fender.

Edited by tegs07
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...