Singing Advice

[Stub Mandrel]

A long, long time ago, I took about a dozen singing lessons that had a huge effect on my confidence and helped me improve my breathing and technique and discover that I have very good 'relative pitch' (but not perfect pitch!). Back then I did sing on a few home recordings and generally people think it's decent enough.

 

<time passes>

 

I'm way out of practice now. But both the bands I'm in are encouraging me to try some backing vocals, they say they are happy with the fact I can only sing and play very simple stuff at the same time. But my vocal performances in the past have been in the 'oohs and aaahs' category and the odd 'yeah' (although I once sang Motorhead's 1916 while playing Mandolin - thankfully, no record of this exists).

 

I suppose what I need is not 'singing lessons' as such but help with:

 

• Confidence singing through a PA - when I hear my voice come back at me I go to pieces.
• Playing and singing at the same time.
• Pitch, as my playing has got better, I increasingly feel like my voice is out of control...

 

I have wondered about doing some open mike stuff with a guitar or mandolin, as a confidence booster. 🙂

 

I'm worried that if I just turn up to a rehearsal with my mike and sing into it, I'll screw up and that will be the end of it. I suspect I need to do a solid few hours practice into a PA, but I doubt the bands have the patience to put up with this...

 

Has anyone got any practical advice on how to address my worries, and if I decide on lessons, what to look for in a teacher?

 

 

[skankdelvar]

Stupid idea but maybe you could copy some karaoke tracks off YT into a DAW (Audacity) and record yourself warbling along. It might help you get used to hearing your own voice coming back at you from speakers.

 

Better qualified people than I will know what to look for in a singing coach.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

Stupid idea but maybe you could copy some karaoke tracks off YT into a DAW (Audacity) and record yourself warbling along. It might help you get used to hearing your own voice coming back at you from speakers.

 

That's an idea!

[skankdelvar]

Just now, Stub Mandrel said:

 

That's an idea!

 

Thing is, pretty much everybody's recorded (or amplified) voice sounds horrible to themselves until they get used to it.

 

Even Don Henley had this problem...

 

...possibly.

[Stub Mandrel]

12 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

 

Thing is, pretty much everybody's recorded (or amplified) voice sounds horrible to themselves until they get used to it.

 

Even Don Henley had this problem...

 

...possibly.

 

Agreed, but it's hearing it when I'm singing that seems to be what puts me off rather than the actual sound.

[skankdelvar]

14 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Agreed, but it's hearing it when I'm singing that seems to be what puts me off rather than the actual sound.

 

Maybe go stand in the corner of a room (the khazi's good for this, being small and mostly hard surfaces) and sing straight into the 90-degree angle. This creates corner loading and bangs your voice back at you a bit.

[Norris]

I'm not the most confident singer, and not a particularly good voice either. However in my experience it's better to "go for it" rather than doing it half-heartedly. Keep projecting, but back off the mic a bit to get the vocals in balance.

 

Certainly hearing yourself is a lot better than NOT hearing yourself.

 

If your band(s) are keen for you to do backing vocals, have a vocal session. Put down your instruments, get the guitarist to play along quietly and practice just the vocals together without mics.

 

If you have difficulty pitching, sing your starting note off mic for a bit before you come in

[Stub Mandrel]

9 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

 

Maybe go stand in the corner of a room (the khazi's good for this, being small and mostly hard surfaces) and sing straight into the 90-degree angle. This creates corner loading and bangs your voice back at you a bit.

 

Singing always sounds better in the bathroom!

[Nail Soup]

Might take a while to get over the initial  shock, but hearing yourself helps you to sing better. So go for it. The suggestion about a vocal session is good too. We used to try it sometimes if the (non singing) drummer couldn’t make a rehearsal. 
And yes, holding back doesn’t help in the end.

good luck and go for it!

[Stub Mandrel]

7 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

We used to try it sometimes if the (non singing) drummer couldn’t make a rehearsal. 

 

That's a good idea, I'll slip something in his beer...

[lurksalot]

Very much my area of expertise this!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

😂

[lurksalot]

One thing I have been doing recently , is to warm up my voice with simple scales ...

but.. 

recording  it with an auto tune on the screen .

this gives me a visual of how and why I am missing a note and helps to correct it 

 

after that it is just muscle memory , but that comes with the practice and repetition 

 

there is no point in practicing the wrong notes , that’s why I use the auto tune as it seems to help my focus more accurately 

 

To improve the actual timbre of the voice is the next ambition , but we’ll see 😂

 

[Burns-bass]

Home performance can never mimic live performance, I guess.

 

My wife is doing vocal lessons and her coach suggested (as you did) to do open mics but have someone film it on a camera phone and then reflect on it after. This enables you to identify what’s good and what needs work. 
 

Thought that was a good idea!

[ubit]

I was the bass player and singer for our band for many years. I always hated the sound of my own voice but people kept saying I was decent. I tried getting someone else in to sing but everyone said it won't be the same band so I was stuck with it.

As for singing and playing, you just have to get the bass part learned until it's pure muscle memory so that you can concentrate on the vocal. If it's a particularly hard part break it down and think which notes land on which lyric and try and play it simplified. Once you get that then you can try to add the rest of the fills or whatever. It worked for me.

[uk_lefty]

15 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Agreed, but it's hearing it when I'm singing that seems to be what puts me off rather than the actual sound.

Same with me... I need to be able to actually hear it but when I do I go all over the place trying to correct myself! I've recorded some band sessions where I'm doing backing without being able to hear myself and it's hit and miss. However, singing along to do harmonies with the singer and only him playing guitar is a lot easier. So if you're doing backing maybe think of the overall sound and blend rather than just your part. A good strong singer will cover up a few lumpy bits in the backing. And nobody is expecting perfection, surely.

[Dom in Dorset]

I had always sung, from just backing vocals up to half of the lead vocals but my voice only really started to develop once I stepped up to be main vocalist. I'm not a natural singer, I don't have exceptional vocal chords but I could feel and hear my voice growing in range, power and subtlety.

My advice is to sing as much as possible. If it's a rehearsal then just go for it, if the rest of the band really want you singing they'll put up with a few dodgy moments. Hold back at gigs until your confidence and hopefully ability grows.

[Happy Jack]

Some excellent advice above, especially the bit about nailing the singing and the playing separately before you bring them together.

 

The two things that have worked best for me are (1) decent ear plugs, in my case the ER15s, and (2) a good vocal pedal, especially the TC Helicon range.

 

(1) makes a difference because you can hear your 'internal' voice very clearly, regardless of what the PA is chucking out.

 

(2) works because, depending on which pedal you choose, you can either make your voice better (for a given value of "better") or sound so distinct from your natural voice that you stop being offended by it. 

 

For BVs I make extensive use of the VoiceTone H1 harmony pedal. For lead work I've found the Duplicator a great way to beef up my voice but @Silvia Bluejay recently bought me the Critical Mass and that's just blown me away.

 

[ubit]

I remember many years ago when I was first forced into singing (our very average singer had left) and I first heard my voice coming from speakers it was weird. It takes a bit of getting used to at first. I think you just have to say f*** it! And just belt it out. You will soon learn how to regulate your voice

[ubit]

We used to play "All These Things I've Done" by The Killers. Dead easy bass line but I struggled to play and sing the verse because of the timing of the bass. I tried and tried but couldn't do both. I had to simplify it and it annoyed the hell out of me every time we played it. I could play far more complicated songs and sing over them but that one always stumped me.

Edited November 27, 2021 by ubit

[ezbass]

Your idea of going to some open mic nights and singing with a guitar or mandolin is sound, as this will build up your confidence. However, as @ubit mentions above, singing and playing bass at the same time is often a very different ball game, due to syncopation. I used to sing lead vocals on China Girl and the second half of that was a nightmare, but repeated practising at home finally nailed it (sorry, it’s the same old ‘keep doing it’ advice, but it’s true). Another potential pitfall is not committing to the performance. I found that if I was tentative at all with my vocal delivery, my pitch would suffer, but this is just a confidence thing that improves with more and more performances, both at home and live. 

[Stub Mandrel]

Thanks for all the advice folks, I'm afraid I've run out of tlrts (reactions)

 

Have a fireworks display...

 

🎆

[zbd1960]

I'm an experienced choral singer - I hadn't sung a note in my life until my mid 30s. I have no problem singing in a concert as part of even a small choir. However... ask me to sing solo.... and plot gets seriously lost.

 

Our recorded voice is always a shock as it's not how we hear it through the bones in our skull - I hate hearing my speaking voice. All you can do as other have said is try to get used to it...

 

Might be worth having some lessons from a singing teacher that specialises in musical theatre as they will be more focused on solo performance 

[Stub Mandrel]

9 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

The two things that have worked best for me are (1) decent ear plugs, in my case the ER15s, and (2) a good vocal pedal, especially the TC Helicon range.

 

(1) makes a difference because you can hear your 'internal' voice very clearly, regardless of what the PA is chucking out.

 

By coincidence, it turns out my brother has been roped into BVs as well! He was given very similar advice i.g. turn down the PA, so you have to sing good and loud, so you hear yourself clearly.

[uk_lefty]

9 hours ago, zbd1960 said:

Our recorded voice is always a shock as it's not how we hear it through the bones in our skull

Slightly off topic but I'm interested to know. What we think is our ordinary voice, is that really what we hear through vibration in our skull or is it something else going on mentally, like how we imagine our voice to sound? I only say this because my recorded speaking voice sounds so much more dull, monotone, deeper and characterless than what I think my voice sounds like.

Edited November 27, 2021 by uk_lefty

[Stub Mandrel]

For years, I hated the voice of Peter White (R. 4 Disability correspondent, among other things).

 

Eventually realised he sounds like I think I sound when recorded.