thepurpleblob Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 For you jazzers out there I guess. I have read a number of discussions on here about Jazz concepts that, while often over my head, I find really interesting. I also keep reading variations on "learn some jazz concepts and it'll really set you up as a player". So, is the latter true and if so where do I start? I have no clue about Jazz music - never listed to any which is probably a bad start. Any recommendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Hey there good to hear you are thinking of branching out with your listening and playing - while I'll leave it to Bilbo and Alun and other knowledgeable pro jazzers around here to fill in the nuts and bolts of playing jazz on bass (and on any instrument for that matter) I guess you could sum the 'genre' up by saying it's about improvising. To do this you need to learn the whole vocabulary of music and be able to play some very technical stuff but at the same time find your way through myriad chord changes (i.e. key changes), keep the pulse of the groove going, and lock in with the drummer. You might/could also be asked to take a solo - all of which should be improvised. It's a huge amount to take in at first but if you can loacate some classic albums by Miles Davis, Kind Of Blue (obv), Dave Brubeck 'Take Five', Horace Silver (any of his early Blue Note ones), Herbie Hancock's 'Maiden Voyage' - this will give you a really good overview of the building blocks of modern jazz. While I also recommend listening to every and any type of jazz to see what you actually like the best thing to do to actually 'get' jazz is go to a gig and see how it's played live. Jazz is about live performance, it's where it all happens so while I enjoy hearing stuff on record I much prefer to see and hear it live. You might want to check out [url="http://www.jazzwisemagazine.com/"]this website[/url] for an idea of the current UK scene and find a gig near you Cheers Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='urb' post='454785' date='Apr 5 2009, 05:19 PM']While I also recommend listening to every and any type of jazz to see what you actually like the best thing to do to actually 'get' jazz is go to a gig and see how it's played live. Jazz is about live performance, it's where it all happens so while I enjoy hearing stuff on record I much prefer to see and hear it live.[/quote] What Mike said is exactly it.... many people who don't like the sound of jazz at first get into what it's all about by going to a gig. once you appreciate just how skillfull and fantastic it can be recordings of great players will mean a lot more to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='urb' post='454785' date='Apr 5 2009, 05:19 PM']You might want to check out [url="http://www.jazzwisemagazine.com/"]this website[/url] for an idea of the current UK scene and find a gig near you[/quote] Mmm... seems Jazz hasn't made it to Scotland!! Just "Mathias Eick Quartet" in Edinburgh. Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='454793' date='Apr 5 2009, 05:37 PM']Mmm... seems Jazz hasn't made it to Scotland!! Just "Mathias Eick Quartet" in Edinburgh. Who? [/quote] He's a really amazing trumpet player signed to big European jazz label ECM - he's a top notch player but I have to say he's a bit formal coampared to some. Do you like near Edinbugh? This venue has loads of good local jazzers on: [url="http://www.thejazzbar.co.uk/"]http://www.thejazzbar.co.uk/[/url] Google jazz in Glasgow etc and you should come up with some more venue putting on regular jazz gigs. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='urb' post='454809' date='Apr 5 2009, 06:03 PM']This venue has loads of good local jazzers on: [url="http://www.thejazzbar.co.uk/"]http://www.thejazzbar.co.uk/[/url][/quote] Actually, I've even been there, but not to see a jazz act as it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='454771' date='Apr 5 2009, 04:47 PM']Any recommendations?[/quote] Find a good psychiatrist - do you have BUPA? I think they cover 'jazz fever' these days. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 + 3 on the going to see live gigs. I was extremely fortunate to be able to see The Wayne Shorter Quartet last year, with Brian Blade (drums), John Patitucci (bass) and Danilo Perez (piano), all absolutely stunning players, I was a total emotional mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Dont run before you can walk, Ha ha learn to play walking bass this is a good place to start [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-qfo8LnMO4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-qfo8LnMO4[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='454771' date='Apr 5 2009, 03:47 PM']For you jazzers out there I guess. I have read a number of discussions on here about Jazz concepts that, while often over my head, I find really interesting. I also keep reading variations on "learn some jazz concepts and it'll really set you up as a player". So, is the latter true and if so where do I start? I have no clue about Jazz music - never listed to any which is probably a bad start. Any recommendations?[/quote] [size=6]Bb[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='leschirons' post='454939' date='Apr 5 2009, 09:43 PM'][size=6]Bb[/size][/quote] Is that like A#...... only jazzier?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alun Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 +1 to what Urb said about seeing jazz live One thing to bear in mind is that "jazz" covers everything from "When The Saints Go Marching In" and Geln Miller to noisy avant garde stuff, just as "rock" can cover a multitude of styles. If you're coming from a rock background, maybe start with some guitar based stuff like Mike Stern or some of the Brecker Brothers stuff. That's how I started - by "easing myself in" on stuff where there was still some resemblance to music I understood For a good grounding in jazz standards, try some Oscar Peterson Trio recordings - "We Get Requests" or "Night Train" are both fantastic and feature the great Ray Brown on bass. I'd also recommend any of the Cds mentioned by Urb. For an idea of what's possible on the bass guitar in jazz, check out anything involving Laurence Cottle or Steve Swallow, amongst others. Tom Kennedy and Mike Pope also come highly recommended on bass guitar and upright. If you want to really get into the nuts and bolts of it all then I can't recommend "The Jazz Theory Book" by Marc Levine highly enough ( the only caveat being that it is all in standard notation and there is a lot in treble clef). Cheers Alun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alun Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='454946' date='Apr 5 2009, 09:51 PM']Is that like A#...... only jazzier??[/quote] Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='Alun' post='454973' date='Apr 5 2009, 10:24 PM']+1 to what Urb said about seeing jazz live One thing to bear in mind is that "jazz" covers everything from "When The Saints Go Marching In" and Geln Miller to noisy avant garde stuff, just as "rock" can cover a multitude of styles. If you're coming from a rock background, maybe start with some guitar based stuff like Mike Stern or some of the Brecker Brothers stuff. That's how I started - by "easing myself in" on stuff where there was still some resemblance to music I understood For a good grounding in jazz standards, try some Oscar Peterson Trio recordings - "We Get Requests" or "Night Train" are both fantastic and feature the great Ray Brown on bass. I'd also recommend any of the Cds mentioned by Urb. For an idea of what's possible on the bass guitar in jazz, check out anything involving Laurence Cottle or Steve Swallow, amongst others. Tom Kennedy and Mike Pope also come highly recommended on bass guitar and upright. If you want to really get into the nuts and bolts of it all then I can't recommend "The Jazz Theory Book" by Marc Levine highly enough ( the only caveat being that it is all in standard notation and there is a lot in treble clef). Cheers Alun[/quote] Cheers... there's some stuff to be going on with there. Luckily I can read standard notation - more or less - so that aspect isn't worry. I'll check out that book I was getting a bit worried because I thought Miles Davis was *really* boring - sacrilege I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='454976' date='Apr 5 2009, 10:30 PM']I was getting a bit worried because I thought Miles Davis was *really* boring - sacrilege I believe.[/quote] He [i]is[/i] boring. Great bandleader, composer and innovator but I think his trumpet playing sucks. And don't bother with Mike Stern. The guy's exactly what's wrong with jazz today IMO. Check out some Louis Armstrong, Django Reinhardt, Duke Ellington, Dizzie Gillespie, Miles Davis (his records are brilliant even if I don't like his trumpet playing), Oscar Peterson, Stan Getz, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea and Joe Zawinul. Between them they have most things covered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Alun' post='454973' date='Apr 5 2009, 10:24 PM']....If you're coming from a rock background, maybe start with some guitar based stuff like Mike Stern or some of the Brecker Brothers stuff. That's how I started - by "easing myself in" on stuff where there was still some resemblance to music I understood....[/quote] +1. Ease in with some electric jazz/funk try anything by the Crusaders, Lettuce (Outta Here), Karl Denson (The Bridge) and anything by David Sanborn. Edited April 6, 2009 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='The Funk' post='455061' date='Apr 6 2009, 12:21 AM']He [i]is[/i] boring. Great bandleader, composer and innovator but I think his trumpet playing sucks. And don't bother with Mike Stern. The guy's exactly what's wrong with jazz today IMO. Check out some Louis Armstrong, Django Reinhardt, Duke Ellington, Dizzie Gillespie, Miles Davis (his records are brilliant even if I don't like his trumpet playing), Oscar Peterson, Stan Getz, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea and Joe Zawinul. Between them they have most things covered![/quote] Well obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but Miles, unlike a lot of people in MOST genres of music, managed to reinvent himself every ten years or so, so to call Bitches Brew 'boring' is only really valid when comparing it to his all acoustic stuff from the 50s and 60s. And 'On the Corner' is some of the baddest funk you'll ever hear, and as for his trumpet playing, each to their own, while he wasn't a moster chops guy, the whole point with how he played (aside from his latter years when he was out of it), was to place a note perfectly in a bar, doing a lot more with a lot less. I'm surprised you don't likr Stern, I know he can be a bit repetitive but he always has a great rhythm section, but again it don't matter if you don't dig it, one man's jazz funk fusion is one man's nightmare elevator music from hell! I understand Like Alun says, if you dig rock and funk there are plenty of bands out there playing stuff that takes elements of rock and just add a few more notes... like a lot more notes! M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 See that clip just scares me.... I'll *never* be able to play that. What about some stuff that an amateur might actually be able to aspire to playing?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 It is interesting to see people's definitions of what constitutes 'jazz', both good and bad. If you find Miles boring, you are missing a trick. Try Porgy & Bess, Sketches of Spain, Miles Ahead, Birth of the Cool, Kind of Blue, Nefertitti or Miles Smiles. If you still find him boring, go get a head transplant . The stuff people have listed here as jazz is controversial. David Sanborn is considered to be a bit lightweight and enough to put anyone off for the saxophone for life. Louis Arnstrong is one type of jazz, Duke Ellington a second, Herbiw Hancock and third and Mike Stern a fourth. You may hate one or two or, indeed, all four of these but like some other jazz forms. Stern, for instance, is widely regarded to be repetitive but he is a particularly sophisticated composer and his soloing is a lot deeper than a lot of people think (try and write some down, you'll be astonished). I think, for someone like yourself, I would recommend that you spend some time rooting around your local library's jazz section, scanning YouTube etc and looking at stuff. Look for all of the people listed above, get a book on jazz and find some names, follow them up, check them out - and don't trust what anyone writes about jazz. There is some great stuff out there but it is unlikely to come to you, you have to go find it. As for seeing it live, I would urge caution in that local scenes can be very inconsistent and there is some pretty poor jazz being played out there. Look for something involving big names where the standard is going to be high but, most of all, don't stop after a few bad experiences. Jazz is a broad church and, despite having spent nearly 30 years playing and listening to it, there is plenty of stuff out there that I hate. As for easy stuff to play (and read), look here for my Milt Hinton transcription of Branford Marsalis's 'Housed From Edward'. Simple straight quarter note walking at its best. I think you can get the track as an MP3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='455134' date='Apr 6 2009, 08:46 AM']....See that clip just scares me.... I'll *never* be able to play that. What about some stuff that an amateur might actually be able to aspire to playing??....[/quote] People should know that advice is no good if it's not appropriate and you don't start mountaineering by climbing Everest!!! As I said earlier, start gently with accessible stuff like the Crusaders then move on to where your tastes take you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Again, I would urge caution. The Crusaders are not what a lot of people would call jazz - maybe pop/funk/fuzak? Not sure where to put them but jazz? I wouldn't put them very deep into that category. Its not my call but bands like these can be a bit sugary for people brought up on edgier musics like rock and punk. As I said - look around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='455303' date='Apr 6 2009, 12:17 PM']Again, I would urge caution. The Crusaders are not what a lot of people would call jazz - maybe pop/funk/fuzak? Not sure where to put them but jazz? I wouldn't put them very deep into that category. Its not my call but bands like these can be a bit sugary for people brought up on edgier musics like rock and punk. As I said - look around.[/quote] Yeh - I just had a listen. Aren't they those "midnight at the oasis" dudes? If that's Jazz I give up right now... back to your elevator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutton Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='455335' date='Apr 6 2009, 12:40 PM']Yeh - I just had a listen. Aren't they those "midnight at the oasis" dudes? If that's Jazz I give up right now... back to your elevator [/quote] No, that's the Brand New Heavies that you are thinking of. A great band and like the Crusaders consisting of professional musicians. These are people who love playing music and do not care about the boundaries of musical genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='454946' date='Apr 5 2009, 09:51 PM']Is that like A#...... only jazzier??[/quote] [size=6]Aha, so you do know about jazz already.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 [quote name='Hutton' post='455341' date='Apr 6 2009, 12:46 PM']No, that's the Brand New Heavies that you are thinking of. A great band and like the Crusaders consisting of professional musicians. These are people who love playing music and do not care about the boundaries of musical genre.[/quote] D'Oh.... close but no cigar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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