Band frictions

[GreeneKing]

I play in a covers band. We've been playing together in a loose way for a couple of years and now we have our first gig in January.

 

Things are okay. Having the gig to work towards has its benefits (I'm feeling very focussed by it) but it's proved a little stressful. We have a lead who plays very loud. Rhythm can barely be heard at times but my bass and rig allows me to cut through the mix pretty well. The lead 'drives' the band and sometimes I think that if I stopped playing he'd carry on regardless. We have a range of abilities and willingness to put work in. I spend many hours a week working on the material.

 

He says he plays by 'feel'. What that sometimes means is that he'll add a few bars into the structure of the song here and remove a few there. This means that I have to think on my feet at times I can get a bit lost getting back into the song. I find this frustrating and solvable. I don't mind if we play the song 'wrong' so long as we all know and we're consistent. In previous bands I would hang in with the correct song structure, verse, chorus, bridge etc and the band would hang in with me.

 

When I raise this the lead can get very angry. To the extent that the drummer had to take him outside to calm him down on one occasion. I'm not rude, I just suggest that we need to get the structure sorted. He will occasionally make a comment on my bass line and I'll simply listen and sort it. I think that he may have issues with perceived criticism and that's causing his simmering rage.

 

I feel that it's disrespectful to 'do your own thing' and expect others to fit in 'on the hoof'. It's not Jazz and I'm an enthusiastic bassist with a limit to my talent. It's also easily sorted to my way of thinking. I tried messaging him to sort it out and his reply was, basically it's not a priority and we can work on it later. I feel like this stuff is the basics and needs sorting straight away. 

 

Any thoughts? I'm not a seasoned pro and bands are I find hard work at times (too much ego going on).

 

Peter

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by GreeneKing

[Lozz196]

Difficult one, if he really is as good as it seems he thinks then - unless your singer is absolutely amazing - he’ll be the “selling point” of the band. And if you look like getting good work based on that I’d be tempted to let him lead & get the rest to follow.
If however he’s not that great and his playing isn’t likely to draw the crowds & work then I’d want to reign him in and get set structures.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Lozz196

[GreeneKing]

2 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Difficult one, if he really is as good as it seems he thinks then - unless your singer is absolutely amazing - he’ll be the “selling point” of the band. And if you look like getting good work based on that I’d be tempted to let him lead & get the rest to follow.
If however he’s not that great and his playing isn’t likely to draw the crowds & work then I’d want to reign him in and get set structures.

The singer is his Bro. They practice together a lot.

[TheGreek]

I don't believe that there are guitarists as you describe...😉😉

[Lozz196]

That puts a different spin on things, bro-singer may not see it as any kind of issue as it’s possible he’s got very used to it and learned to come in on the fly. Either that or it drives him mad too and wants him reigning in sharpish.

[Heathy]

I would find that kind of Diva behaviour unacceptable, regardless of how good he is. Right or wrong, my reaction would probably be to dig my own heels in!

[TheGreek]

3 minutes ago, Heathy said:

I would find that kind of Diva behaviour unacceptable, regardless of how good he is. Right or wrong, my reaction would probably be to dig my own heels into his left eye socket!

 

FIXED!!

[AndyTravis]

Eeeeeh.

 

Absolutely cannot abide folk who can’t read the room.

 

The original 602 guitarist who left and came back (never go backwards) was all about allotted solo time and paining over ridiculous details like how much “space, sonically speaking” he had in which to solo.

 

He was like a fun sponge, as well as relentlessly loud, obnoxiously so…we’d all had enough second time round and he got upset that the drums and bass “overshadowed the nuance in the guitar parts”

 

He sounds like a headache of a slightly different ilk, but equally as irksome.

 

It you have to ask - and you don’t seem over the moon with it, put the feelers out for another band.

 

There’s creative tension, which can be good - and friction which basically will make you want to boil your own head.

 

And the aggression when challenged, having to be taken outside to calm down?

 

preposterous.

[mep]

Sounds like a right tool. Move on.

[AndyTravis]

1 minute ago, mep said:

Sounds like a right tool. Move on.

Yeah. You’re so much more succinct than me.

[mep]

Didnt have much More to say after the previous posts really. I agree with Andy that having to be taken outside to calm down is ridiculous and would be the final straw for me.

Too loud. No structure. Diva. It's a no from me.

Edited November 29, 2021 by mep
Added paragraph.

[Trueno]

I always consider the pain/pleasure ratio. Once it becomes 51% pain and 49% pleasure I’m gone. 

[uk_lefty]

52 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

He says he plays by 'feel'. What that sometimes means is that he'll add a few bars into the structure of the song here and remove a few there

I've got a mate who has some very, very expensive guitars. He can't play in time though. Says it's because he grew up playing jazz. 

 

He said that in front of a friend's Mrs, unaware at the time she has a prestigious music degree with her specialist genre being.......... Jazz. She tried not to laugh in his face.

 

Some people just can't admit they have some limitations. Silly really. All he needs is to agree a cue from the drums or something when his time is up and then back to the verses or whatever.

[RhysP]

1 hour ago, GreeneKing said:

He says he plays by 'feel'. What that sometimes means is that he'll add a few bars into the structure of the song here and remove a few there.

Not being able to count bars is not "playing by feel".

[mep]

4 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

All he needs is to agree a cue from the drums or something when his time is up and then back to the verses or whatever.

This is the best solution to the structure issue if you can get him to agree, unless it's going to mess with his 'feel'.

[Maude]

I couldn't be doing with that. Personally I like a band to be tight, and for me that means everyone knowing exactly where all the changes are and sticking to them. It's no good me launching into the chorus if the guitarist decides he wants to noodle on for a few more bars. 

 

He sounds like a bedroom guitarist that never learnt to play with a band, knows his shortcomings and makes excuses for them like "I play by feel", and gets angry when he's 'found out'. 

 

 

[Hellzero]

I've played with a guitarist like that for, urm, urm, 10 years...

 

Every gig, not even talking about the recording sessions, was a bit of a challenge, not knowing what was going to happen.

 

I quit something like 8 or 9 years ago explaining him that I couldn't play anymore with someone so unpredictable.

 

Guess what ?

 

He's still moaning about that today and never swallowed the pill. 🤣 

 

So, yes, move on.

[Boodang]

If it's a covers band then it needs to be tight. Sounds like this guitarist needs to be in a different style of band if that's how he want to play.

[uk_lefty]

25 minutes ago, mep said:

This is the best solution to the structure issue if you can get him to agree, unless it's going to mess with his 'feel'.

Unless he admits that "I play by feel" really means:

1) I can't count bars,

2) I can't be bothered doing this properly,

3) I don't respect other people and I'm a giant toddler who needs everything my way,

4) All of the above

 

 

 

 

[Bleat]

He's obviously not interested in the other band members, not about being a good musician, has no interest in the band looking and sounding at its best on stage, not bothered by how he behaves towards others... yeah I would walk and find some actual grown ups to play with. 

 

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I would suggest that everyone in the band should have the same luxury of being allowed to play 'by feel' adding or removing bars (or half bars) at will, and then play a few songs to see how well it goes.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Jean-Luc Pickguard

[Downunderwonder]

I wouldn't have lasted a month with that.

[peteb]

2 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

He says he plays by 'feel'. What that sometimes means is that he'll add a few bars into the structure of the song here and remove a few there. This means that I have to think on my feet at times I can get a bit lost getting back into the song. I find this frustrating and solvable. I don't mind if we play the song 'wrong' so long as we all know and we're consistent. In previous bands I would hang in with the correct song structure, verse, chorus, bridge etc and the band would hang in with me.

 

 

This depends on what type of band it is and if the guy is actually any good. It’s OK to have fluid arrangements and for the guitar player to change the length of his solos, breakdown sections, etc if he is good enough to carry it off. Part of being a good musician is about being able to listen and adapt / change arrangements on the fly. But this requires the guitar player to give clear cues if he is going to extend passages (or cut them short) and for him to listen to the rest of the band too. Just adding or cutting a solo by a few bars because he can’t or won’t count isn’t acceptable by any means.

 

It’s pretty clear that the guitar player and his singer brother are the band leaders, so you either work the way that they want to work, or you walk…

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by peteb

[Frank Blank]

Next time you rehearse ask him to turn his volume down to a reasonable level, don’t take no for an answer, explain your reasoning. When he refuses stick to your guns, just stick to them, he’s an unreasonable egoist bellend and nothing, but nothing, exposes idiots like reasonable reasoned requests. You’ll be home by eight and can start looking for a band who can actually work together democratically.

[Norris]

Walk

 

 

 

No, run!