Band frictions

[casapete]

34 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

The Rhythm guitarist is low key and can hardly be heard a lot of the time. He's the sort of guy that likes to turn up and take part and doesn't want to 'rock the boat'. He has mentioned that he finds it annoying but as the bassist I seem to be more focussed on song structure than everyone else. There's a bit of 'does it really matter' attitude going on. When I'm having to sort out what I'm playing and where we are mid bar then yes, to me it matters. It sounds bad and I'm the one that stands out as getting it wrong to anyone listening.

Sounds like it’s not just the one guitarist who is the problem then?!!

[martthebass]

1 hour ago, GreeneKing said:

The Rhythm guitarist is low key and can hardly be heard a lot of the time. He's the sort of guy that likes to turn up and take part and doesn't want to 'rock the boat'. He has mentioned that he finds it annoying but as the bassist I seem to be more focussed on song structure than everyone else. There's a bit of 'does it really matter' attitude going on. When I'm having to sort out what I'm playing and where we are mid bar then yes, to me it matters. It sounds bad and I'm the one that stands out as getting it wrong to anyone listening.

It seems to me that, to an extent, the band isn't really focused on being a 'performing' band.  The Rhythm guitarist and Lead come to that, are acting more as if it's a bit of a 'jammimg' band or social meet up kind of thing?  Maybe your objectives for the band and their's don't align?  To be honest, any band that has been rehearsing for going on 2 years without a gig says to me that gigging is not their priority. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by martthebass

[Count Bassie]

1 hour ago, Supernaut said:

I would have walked a long time ago! What's worse than a musician who plays too loud? A musician who plays too loud and won't listen to others. 

That dude would be gone in a day...

Also sometimes making one move to fix a problem opens up opportunity for other problems to repair- you create the opportunity for adjustments within the structure...

For instance, the intimidating lead guitar player is gone, so now the timid rhythm player sees it's safe to turn up. Now he can hear himself, and he can begin to enjoy playing, etc...

(I don't know the guy, just saying)

Edited December 1, 2021 by Count Bassie

[GreeneKing]

8 minutes ago, martthebass said:

It seems to me that, to an extent, the band isn't really focused on being a 'performing' band.  The Rhythm guitarist and Lead come to that, are acting more as if it's a bit of a 'jammimg' band or social meet up kind of thing?  Maybe your objectives for the band and their's don't align?  To be honest, any band that has been rehearsing for going on 2 years without a gig says to me that gigging is not their priority. 

Spot on Mart. We were just that until I found us a gig. The lead did the singing before and now his bro is onboard for the gig. The drummer gigs anyway and the Rhythm isn't so keen. I'm probably the keenest to perform in front of an audience. It's bound to produce stress but I see that as a positive. People who just meet up for a jam can be quite selfish and focussed on their own stuff methinks.

Edited December 1, 2021 by GreeneKing

[la bam]

Just let everyone know that in order for it to work, the drummer brings everyone in and out of parts.

 

That way, the improv bobbins hes trying wont work, and the drummer will have a better idea of structure, bars, and feel of the song, but if a solo (where the bass doesnt change) is allowed to continue, you can play along happily until the drummer gives cues in his playing to bring you all back in.

 

It should never be a guitarist, especially a guitarist who clearly doesnt listen to whatever anyone else is playing, that is in control of the structure of the songs imo.

 

Then, hopefully, that will force him to turn down as he'll have to be able to hear everyone else to know where his cues are.

Edited December 1, 2021 by la bam

[chris_b]

On 30/11/2021 at 10:13, GreeneKing said:

Bands are ego-fests. . . .

 

Most are, and probably should be.

 

IMO you need an ego to stand up in front of a crowd of strangers and perform. You need to believe that what you are doing is good enough to interest them.

 

It's the toxic ego, the ego maniacs, selfish and self centred Richard-heads always spoil a band. These guys rarely change so in the end it always comes down to a choice. One of you has to go.

Edited December 1, 2021 by chris_b

[la bam]

.

Edited December 1, 2021 by la bam

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

My bass cuts through into the mix really well despite the lead being too loud.

 

Hmmm.

 

If he's top loud, and you can still be heard clearly, doesn't that mean you are too loud as well?

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, martthebass said:

To be honest, any band that has been rehearsing for going on 2 years without a gig says to me that gigging is not their priority.

 

Be fair, it may be down to covid.

[martthebass]

36 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Be fair, it may be down to covid.

To be honest - for a covers band I'd have said 6 months..😝

[Trueno]

2 hours ago, martthebass said:

It seems to me that, to an extent, the band isn't really focused on being a 'performing' band.  The Rhythm guitarist and Lead come to that, are acting more as if it's a bit of a 'jammimg' band or social meet up kind of thing?  Maybe your objectives for the band and their's don't align?  To be honest, any band that has been rehearsing for going on 2 years without a gig says to me that gigging is not their priority. 

Ambition mismatch… it’s more of a killer than musical differences.

 

Whenever I audition bands to join (because that’s how I always look at it) I always ask: “how many gigs will you be doing?” Then they always look at me for a bit of a clue…

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

 I'm probably the keenest to perform in front of an audience. It's bound to produce stress but I see that as a positive. People who just meet up for a jam can be quite selfish and focussed on their own stuff methinks.

 

If it produces no stress, then probably it is not worth doing it. I have done over 150 gigs with my current band but there is still a weird stressy feeling before i head to the gig - it goes when I start to setup, I think it is anticipation / have i forgotten anything etc.

 

Meeting up for a jam is fine if that is what you have signed up for, with my current band if we had no gig there would be no point to meet up, although the guitarist often tried to force a practice because he viewed it as him practicing, which is not what it is about. Learn the song, get good at it, then practice it with the band.

 

[GreeneKing]

4 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Hmmm.

 

If he's top loud, and you can still be heard clearly, doesn't that mean you are too loud as well?

Not necessarily. I don’t think it’s just a volume thing. I could be loud and still be lost in the mix. I’d describe the bass as focussed and loud enough considering the need to be heard alongside the lead. If he turned down a little then so could I. I’m not in a competition but sometimes I can’t hear the bass clearly when I’m in front of my amp. 
 

It’s almost as if he doesn’t understand the role of or need for a bass. 

[GreeneKing]

5 hours ago, la bam said:

Just let everyone know that in order for it to work, the drummer brings everyone in and out of parts.

 

That way, the improv bobbins hes trying wont work, and the drummer will have a better idea of structure, bars, and feel of the song, but if a solo (where the bass doesnt change) is allowed to continue, you can play along happily until the drummer gives cues in his playing to bring you all back in.

 

It should never be a guitarist, especially a guitarist who clearly doesnt listen to whatever anyone else is playing, that is in control of the structure of the songs imo.

 

Then, hopefully, that will force him to turn down as he'll have to be able to hear everyone else to know where his cues are.

In my first band I generally kept the song structure and the rest of the guys were okay with that. Expected it even. 

[GreeneKing]

4 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

 

Meeting up for a jam is fine if that is what you have signed up for, with my current band if we had no gig there would be no point to meet up, although the guitarist often tried to force a practice because he viewed it as him practicing, which is not what it is about. Learn the song, get good at it, then practice it with the band.

 

Absolutely 

[Downunderwonder]

10 hours ago, martthebass said:

any band that has been rehearsing for going on 2 years without a gig says to me that gigging is not their priority. 

What rock have you been living under? They would have had long enough between kickoff and the world going to hell in a handbasket to have done something but I can understand a project stalling out in the meantime.

 

It's not fun.

There's no gigs.

The music isn't there.

 

2/3 is survivable but 0/0 = bail yesterday.

 

You already gave it your best shot at getting guitar hero to act like a musician and he's still thinking he's the rockstar.

 

There's no way to fire him without losing the singer. Try to hang onto the drummer. 

[martthebass]

10 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

What rock have you been living under? They would have had long enough between kickoff and the world going to hell in a handbasket to have done something but I can understand a project stalling out in the meantime.

 

 

Not sure I’m following you....are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Pretty sure I’m a surface dweller as I see no rock....

[Count Bassie]

3 hours ago, martthebass said:

Not sure I’m following you....are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Pretty sure I’m a surface dweller as I see no rock....

I think his point is that gigs are sparse nowadays, as rooms full of sweaty, drinking partiers are a less popular draw these days. Covid and all that...

[Downunderwonder]

3 hours ago, martthebass said:

Not sure I’m following you....are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Pretty sure I’m a surface dweller as I see no rock....

Most of the last eighteen months has been incredibly difficult to navigate band practices. Plus 

1 minute ago, Count Bassie said:

I think his point is that gigs are sparse nowadays, as rooms full of sweaty, drinking partiers are a less popular draw these days. Covid and all that...

 

[Billy Bongo]

It all depends if you want to be led by a selfish git. This instance sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. Imagine, if you will, a time in the future when you have 'made it'. There you are miserably hanging about in the background whilst Clapton goes off on an impromptu solo. You mention it afterwards and he flies into a rage. He does this every time you query anything. For five years. Do you want that? Or would you be better finding a band without a lead ego? Bass is what drives any band. It hits the guts of an audience. Without you it is just a lot of noise without heart. If this bloke has no respect for you now then prepare to be further humiliated.

 

Sounds harsh I know, but this stuff is meant to be enjoyable and it doesn't sound as if you are enjoying it right now.

[martthebass]

4 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Most of the last eighteen months has been incredibly difficult to navigate band practices. Plus 

 

Well I think the OP has considered that and doesn’t think it accounts for the resistance. Sure it’s made things difficult but far from impossible. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by martthebass

[GreeneKing]

Just to paint an accurate picture of ‘the band’. For the past couple of years we’ve been a bunch of guys meeting up once a month to work on some covers purely for our own entertainment. No ambitions of gigging. Ive been honest in that I’m up for it but failing that it’s a way to improve my musicianship and give myself a focus. 
This upcoming gig may well be a one off. If we can sort things out it may lead to more gigs. It may even all fall apart. Opportunities are limited so I hope not. 

[nilebodgers]

If it’s strictly a fun thing rather than a money making thing then putting up with any BS is a lot less palatable. Only the OP can decide if they can stand to work with a clown like that guitarist when they really don’t have to.

[Lord Sausage]

Using 'feel' as an excuse for being stinky poo is hilarious. Just quit. Life's to short for living with pointless stress. Just take yourself out of the situation.

[GreeneKing]

I was chatting to the leads bro who I met in the street, our singer. I realise that the lead is essentially a bedroom player. He has no concept of what it means to play with other musicians. Of course he doesn't see song structure as an important issue because when you're playing in your bedroom it doesn't matter.

 

His guitar is too loud, he thinks only of his part and is completely unaware that his mistakes are wrong footing other members in the band and basically hanging them out to dry. I'm fed up with him saying on a song ending, that sounded great when I spent two bars trying to adjust from playing the chorus to the outtro. He's oblivious.

 

Next practice I'm going to have a word, I'll tell him beforehand that tantrums aren't acceptable and explain a few facts around being in a band. Either that or I message him beforehand.