Band frictions

[AndyTravis]

Go with message beforehand.

 

experts in bellendery love an audience - and I fear you may not have much in the way of support in the room if it comes to a you vs him situation.

 

 

[GreeneKing]

7 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

Go with message beforehand.

 

experts in bellendery love an audience - and I fear you may not have much in the way of support in the room if it comes to a you vs him situation.

 

 

I'm compiling a txt as I type   Hopefully diplomatically. I'll re-read it before I press send.

[Count Bassie]

2 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

I was chatting to the leads bro who I met in the street, our singer. I realise that the lead is essentially a bedroom player. He has no concept of what it means to play with other musicians. Of course he doesn't see song structure as an important issue because when you're playing in your bedroom it doesn't matter.

 

His guitar is too loud, he thinks only of his part and is completely unaware that his mistakes are wrong footing other members in the band and basically hanging them out to dry. I'm fed up with him saying on a song ending, that sounded great when I spent two bars trying to adjust from playing the chorus to the outtro. He's oblivious.

 

Next practice I'm going to have a word, I'll tell him beforehand that tantrums aren't acceptable and explain a few facts around being in a band. Either that or I message him beforehand.

In person makes it way more meaningful. I don't wish to be harsh at all, but he needs a dose of reality.

[Count Bassie]

3 minutes ago, Count Bassie said:

In person makes it way more meaningful. I don't wish to be harsh at all, but he needs a dose of reality.

I asked a friend once for his opinion of my band. I wanted him to tell me the truth.

He said, "The truth?"

I said, "Yeah."

He said, "It sucked." And then he told me why.

It hit me like a punch in the stomach- I spent a moment recovering from it, he said "I'm sorry. You asked for the truth." But I was grateful that someone told me the truth. I will always remember that to his credit, and consider him a friend for it.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Count Bassie

[Frank Blank]

2 hours ago, Count Bassie said:

I asked a friend once for his opinion of my band. I wanted him to tell me the truth.

He said, "The truth?"

I said, "Yeah."

He said, "It sucked." And then he told me why.

It hit me like a punch in the stomach- I spent a moment recovering from it, he said "I'm sorry. You asked for the truth." But I was grateful that someone told me the truth. I will always remember that to his credit, and consider him a friend for it.

Same happened to me I asked a mate for his genuine opinion of my band…

 

Me: So, what did you think?

Mate: Honestly?

Me: Yeah, honestly.
Mate: I'll answer the question. You want answers?

Me: I think I'm entitled to them. 

Mate: You want answers?!

Me: I want the truth!

Mate: You can't handle the truth!

[chris_b]

5 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

I was chatting to the leads bro who I met in the street, our singer. . . . . .

 

What did he say about the problem? Did he have any answers or suggestions?

[chris_b]

Yet another double post!!!

Edited December 5, 2021 by chris_b

[chris_b]

3 hours ago, Count Bassie said:

He said, "It sucked." And then he told me why. . . .

 

The truth is always preferable, no matter how difficult it is to hear.

[tauzero]

5 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

I'm compiling a txt as I type   Hopefully diplomatically. I'll re-read it before I press send.

 

Something which I have resisted saying for 8.5 pages, but will now say, is that you should really have tackled this issue a lot earlier. But, like me saying that, you've put it off an awfully long time. I hope you've managed to strike a diplomatic tone. The next stage is to work your way through the songs properly, and stop them whenever it goes titsup to tell him what's gone wrong. For one thing, if you're doing covers and he's getting the length of the solo wrong, he's not playing the original solo - that might be worth pointing out.

[Count Bassie]

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

Same happened to me I asked a mate for his genuine opinion of my band…

 

Me: So, what did you think?

Mate: Honestly?

Me: Yeah, honestly.
Mate: I'll answer the question. You want answers?

Me: I think I'm entitled to them. 

Mate: You want answers?!

Me: I want the truth!

Mate: You can't handle the truth!

Sounds like he spared you! 😆

[uk_lefty]

6 hours ago, Count Bassie said:

Sounds like he spared you! 😆

But not a problem between a Few Good Men.

[GreeneKing]

6 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

What did he say about the problem? Did he have any answers or suggestions?

He was sympathetic to my view. 

[GreeneKing]

6 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

Something which I have resisted saying for 8.5 pages, but will now say, is that you should really have tackled this issue a lot earlier. But, like me saying that, you've put it off an awfully long time. I hope you've managed to strike a diplomatic tone. The next stage is to work your way through the songs properly, and stop them whenever it goes titsup to tell him what's gone wrong. For one thing, if you're doing covers and he's getting the length of the solo wrong, he's not playing the original solo - that might be worth pointing out.

We haven’t been a gigging band for long, just a bunch of guys meeting up for a jam regularly. So there was no need to address his inconsistent structure. 
 

[GreeneKing]

Well, I wrote what I thought was a fair communication. I read it to my lady who made several wise suggestions. I re-wrote it making it quite gentle and giving my view without rubbishing his. It said how his loose ‘feel’ approach to song structure wasn’t compatible with other musicians. It ended with a comment about wanting this sorted in a good way. 
I’ve just read his reply. He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay with other musicians he’s played with and that we’re musically incompatible and we should call it a day. He’s spat his dummy out again. 
 

Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others. 

[steve-bbb]

On 29/11/2021 at 20:41, GreeneKing said:

I play in a covers band. We've been playing together in a loose way for a couple of years and now we have our first gig in January.

 

Things are okay. Having the gig to work towards has its benefits (I'm feeling very focussed by it) but it's proved a little stressful. We have a lead who plays very loud. Rhythm can barely be heard at times but my bass and rig allows me to cut through the mix pretty well. The lead 'drives' the band and sometimes I think that if I stopped playing he'd carry on regardless. We have a range of abilities and willingness to put work in. I spend many hours a week working on the material.

 

He says he plays by 'feel'. What that sometimes means is that he'll add a few bars into the structure of the song here and remove a few there.

 

Sounds like a bit of a selfish nasty pasty to me 🤔

change my mind

[Downunderwonder]

32 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig

There must be plenty of bands available in January. Better to let it go now when guitar hero shows zero inclination to fix his lack of appreciation of form.

 

He isn't going to come around so you would be serving up trainwrecks if you persist.

[steve-bbb]

On a more serious note in defence of the guitard, we always worked on the premise that if the drums and bass were really tight then the guitar was free to be as loose and “stylish” as he pleased (we had the luxury of keys too)

 

i get where he is coming from but he is probably not putting it across in the best possible way, and the overall situation not helped by the fact that the rest of the band let him continue so long implies a sort of “tacit approval”

 

just my $0.10 worth ymmv mcton hope this helps

[GreeneKing]

23 minutes ago, steve-bbb said:

On a more serious note in defence of the guitard, we always worked on the premise that if the drums and bass were really tight then the guitar was free to be as loose and “stylish” as he pleased (we had the luxury of keys too)

 

i get where he is coming from but he is probably not putting it across in the best possible way, and the overall situation not helped by the fact that the rest of the band let him continue so long implies a sort of “tacit approval”

 

just my $0.10 worth ymmv mcton hope this helps

I’m not talking ‘loose and stylish’, just getting the structure wrong and most commonly cuttings bits short. To my way of thinking that is making a mistake. He doesn’t see it as a mistake but his ‘playing by feel’. Perhaps a bigger issue is his tantrums every time I try to say anything about it. 

[tegs07]

 The guitarist may be highly experienced with many gigs under his belt with the conference to improvise. If this is the case though I would hope he would be able to signal his changes to the rest of the band and have the maturity to guide the less experienced members so they were working with him and nailing the songs in rehearsal.

I haven’t played in a band for a long time and when I was in one we were all equally inept so stuck rigidly to the structure. We were fairly rubbish but I saw plenty of local bands live who were technically more proficient than us but sucked live as they were doing exactly what your guitarist does.

It was like watching 10 year olds in a local football tournament. 11 would be strikers all doing their own thing.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

7 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

The truth is always preferable, no matter how difficult it is to hear.

 

The truth about me being ejected for "too widdly" was useful. The rest of the band wanted to play very direct, solid music. I came in from a covers band with no lead guitar and used to fill in on a few songs while the keyboard player did others. I wanted to play a combination of Hawkwind and Neil Young style stuff, when they really wanted straight eight root notes most of the time.

 

I had to learn to 'serve the song'.

[Len_derby]

1 hour ago, GreeneKing said:
 

Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others. 

Alternatively, if it turned out to be a car crash gig that might have worse consequences. Bands are cancelling gigs left, right and centre down in the East Midlands. Mainly due to you-know-what but it won’t be an unusual occurrence if you can-it for another reason.

I really hope you put yourself out there and find other people to play with. When you find musicians better suited for you it’ll be a fantastic feeling.

You’ve alluded earlier to lacking confidence. You ride a motorcycle FFS! You’ll never get me on the back of one of them!
Good luck. 

[nilebodgers]

If a band can't agree on and stick to a song arrangement then there is no hope. Gigs will just be a perpetual series of car-crashes. Where is the enjoyment in that?

[GreeneKing]

43 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

 The guitarist may be highly experienced with many gigs under his belt with the conference to improvise. If this is the case though I would hope he would be able to signal his changes to the rest of the band and have the maturity to guide the less experienced members so they were working with him and nailing the songs in rehearsal.

I haven’t played in a band for a long time and when I was in one we were all equally inept so stuck rigidly to the structure. We were fairly rubbish but I saw plenty of local bands live who were technically more proficient than us but sucked live as they were doing exactly what your guitarist does.

It was like watching 10 year olds in a local football tournament. 11 would be strikers all doing their own thing.

 

It’s really not about him having a flair for improvisation but instead chopping the odd few bars out due to both not bothering to get it right and not seeing it as any sort of an issue. 

[GreeneKing]

39 minutes ago, Len_derby said:

 

You’ve alluded earlier to lacking confidence. You ride a motorcycle FFS! You’ll never get me on the back of one of them!
Good luck. 

I’ve been riding motorcycles since I was 16. There is my field of expertise  I wish my bass playing were anywhere near that level. 

[tegs07]

13 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

It’s really not about him having a flair for improvisation but instead chopping the odd few bars out due to both not bothering to get it right and not seeing it as any sort of an issue. 

I think you know the answer to your question then. Tough decision but if he can’t even acknowledge that this is a major failing then there is nothing that can be done. Either you and the drummer get psychic abilities or the band will always suck live.