Band frictions

[deepbass5]

19 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

I’ve been riding motorcycles since I was 16. There is my field of expertise  I wish my bass playing were anywhere near that level. 

But just like going out on the bike this winter and being aware through your experience, It sounds like you already have a good awareness of the greasy leaves and the cats eyes that crop up in the band situation 👍

 

Edit - There are people you know that you probably would want on the back of your bike.

Edited December 5, 2021 by deepbass5

[AndyTravis]

3 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

Well, I wrote what I thought was a fair communication. I read it to my lady who made several wise suggestions. I re-wrote it making it quite gentle and giving my view without rubbishing his. It said how his loose ‘feel’ approach to song structure wasn’t compatible with other musicians. It ended with a comment about wanting this sorted in a good way. 
I’ve just read his reply. He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay with other musicians he’s played with and that we’re musically incompatible and we should call it a day. He’s spat his dummy out again. 
 

Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others. 

I hope I never end up in a band with this guy. Absolute clown - makes me angry on your behalf.

 

 

[peteb]

3 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

Well, I wrote what I thought was a fair communication. I read it to my lady who made several wise suggestions. I re-wrote it making it quite gentle and giving my view without rubbishing his. It said how his loose ‘feel’ approach to song structure wasn’t compatible with other musicians. It ended with a comment about wanting this sorted in a good way. 
I’ve just read his reply. He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay with other musicians he’s played with and that we’re musically incompatible and we should call it a day. He’s spat his dummy out again. 
 

Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others. 

 

Well, that was sadly inevitable 

 

[BreadBin]

24 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

I hope I never end up in a band with this guy. Absolute clown - makes me angry on your behalf.

 

 

Agreed - clearly a bellend. I wouldn't have lasted this long or been nearly as diplomatic. Life is too short to waste time on people like that.

[GreeneKing]

This has been a long thread. I hope it’s been entertaining  

 

I has reinforced my view that being blasé about song structure isn’t acceptable. As was said, I’m not psychic. 
I’ve chatted with the rhythm guitarist over the phone. I didn’t realise how much he felt the same way. He’s been keeping quiet about it.
It’s not just the loss of a few bars here and there but his lead in for solos is being hammed up to the point where he doesn’t bother and just carries on chugging out chords. 
He’s not as bothered about it falling apart as I am. 
Well, back to the books and time to work on some skills beyond learning and playing songs. 
Thanks to everyone that has contributed. 
 

Peter

[tegs07]

2 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

This has been a long thread. I hope it’s been entertaining  

 

I has reinforced my view that being blasé about song structure isn’t acceptable. As was said, I’m not psychic. 
I’ve chatted with the rhythm guitarist over the phone. I didn’t realise how much he felt the same way. He’s been keeping quiet about it.
It’s not just the loss of a few bars here and there but his lead in for solos is being hammed up to the point where he doesn’t bother and just carries on chugging out chords. 
He’s not as bothered about it falling apart as I am. 
Well, back to the books and time to work on some skills beyond learning and playing songs. 
Thanks to everyone that has contributed. 
 

Peter

Sounds like you have saved yourself a lot of grief and public humiliation. There are two reasons I would join a band. Possibly to make some cash but much more likely to meet friends with similar musical taste. It doesn’t look like your current band will do either.

 

[AndyTravis]

So.

 

start again with rhythm guitarist - get a set list together you’re both happy with.

 

advertise for a singer (unless either of you are confident vocalists?)

 

Attend any local open mic nights - there will be some around Kendal I’d guess.

 

See if there are any drummers about.

 

Joinmyband website and Facebook are the “music shop notice boards” and “back pages of the melody maker” these days.

 

I’ve had varying results.

 

Make a pact with mr Rhythm that you’ll communicate when things aren’t going well.

 

Keep having fun with it.

 

 

[steve-bbb]

4 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

I’m not talking ‘loose and stylish’, just getting the structure wrong and most commonly cuttings bits short. To my way of thinking that is making a mistake. He doesn’t see it as a mistake but his ‘playing by feel’. Perhaps a bigger issue is his tantrums every time I try to say anything about it. 

knowing how to count 4 or 8 bars is very basic stuff - if he cant or wont and has tantrums personally id be looking for band members who can - insisting on playing by feel and refusing to budge and learn a bit of basic theory and having a hissy fit to others constructive criticism is a surefire recipe for a world of pain 

[mikel]

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

Sounds like you have saved yourself a lot of grief and public humiliation. There are two reasons I would join a band. Possibly to make some cash but much more likely to meet friends with similar musical taste. It doesn’t look like your current band will do either.

 

Sad but true. I have only ever played in a band for the music. If the musicians are not to my liking, by that I mean competent or friendly, or the music is not to my taste, Its a none starter for me. Money? Its a bonus but well down my list of music making priorities. No, I am not a great musician, I play because I love it so money is not a motivation.

[Woodinblack]

6 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

I’ve just read his reply. He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay with other musicians he’s played with and that we’re musically incompatible and we should call it a day. He’s spat his dummy out again. 
 

Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others. 

 

On the plus side it is now out in the open, he knows how you feel. And he is right, maybe you are musically compatible, he thinks music is about everyone listening to him, and you don't. 

So get that advert in all the jmb and bandmix sort of sites and start recruiting for another band while the iron is hot 

[Japhet]

7 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

Well, I wrote what I thought was a fair communication. I read it to my lady who made several wise suggestions. I re-wrote it making it quite gentle and giving my view without rubbishing his. It said how his loose ‘feel’ approach to song structure wasn’t compatible with other musicians. It ended with a comment about wanting this sorted in a good way. 
I’ve just read his reply. He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay with other musicians he’s played with and that we’re musically incompatible and we should call it a day. He’s spat his dummy out again. 
 

Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others. 

 

Years (many) ago, I played in a band with a keyboard player who outstayed his welcome. He got sacked. On the bands social media page there was a 'history of the band' section that detailed all of the comings and goings. When it came to that episode it read 'X (no names mentioned) left the band for musical differences. We were musical and he was different'. Still makes me smile 20 years later.

[lozkerr]

8 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay with other musicians he’s played with

 

Backing tracks don't get narky when you make mistakes.

 

 

                   

8 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others. 

 

That tells me that you need to put your rep first. If you decide to go ahead with the gig, make sure you can stay locked in with the drummer at rehearsals between now and the gig. Forget about the guitarist's widdling.

 

When you set up at the gig, make sure that (a) you're standing upstage of this tool and (b) ensure that no-one's masking you. Then, when the guitarist goes off-piste, stay with the drummer so the rhythm's consistent and deploy every venomous glare, tightened lips, eye roll and head shake you can when he screws up the song. He won't see it because he'll have his back to you, but the audience will. Keep it subtle, though. If you have a volume pedal, you could try cranking it slightly so that the audience can hear you're trying to hold it together.

 

Then quit after the gig, citing the guitarist's reply as the reason.

 

If you're concerned about being badmouthed by this fool, get someone to video the gig. Then, if they start slating you on social media, just reply with some clips showing the biggest howlers.

[Dan Dare]

1 hour ago, Japhet said:

X (no names mentioned) left the band for musical differences. We were musical and he was different

 

Good one. I hope to be able to use that myself some day.

[GreeneKing]

29 minutes ago, lozkerr said:

 

Backing tracks don't get narky when you make mistakes.

 

 

                   

 

That tells me that you need to put your rep first. If you decide to go ahead with the gig, make sure you can stay locked in with the drummer at rehearsals between now and the gig. Forget about the guitarist's widdling.

 

When you set up at the gig, make sure that (a) you're standing upstage of this tool and (b) ensure that no-one's masking you. Then, when the guitarist goes off-piste, stay with the drummer so the rhythm's consistent and deploy every venomous glare, tightened lips, eye roll and head shake you can when he screws up the song. He won't see it because he'll have his back to you, but the audience will. Keep it subtle, though. If you have a volume pedal, you could try cranking it slightly so that the audience can hear you're trying to hold it together.

 

Then quit after the gig, citing the guitarist's reply as the reason.

 

If you're concerned about being badmouthed by this fool, get someone to video the gig. Then, if they start slating you on social media, just reply with some clips showing the biggest howlers.

That is an ideal approach. Sadly the bugger plays so loud he and probably the audience wouldn’t notice if the rhythm section stayed on course

[lozkerr]

10 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

That is an ideal approach. Sadly the bugger plays so loud he and probably the audience wouldn’t notice if the rhythm section stayed on course

Which makes the visual side that more important. If you can communicate the vibe that the guy's an utter tool, you'll have salvaged your rep. If he's loud enough to drown the rhythm section, the audience will react to that as they won't like being bombarded with 500 decibels of screechy widdling.

[fretmeister]

Now that the band has ended, you can send him a link to this thread.

 

Maybe he’ll learn something.

[TimR]

6 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

This has been a long thread. I hope it’s been entertaining  

 

I has reinforced my view that being blasé about song structure isn’t acceptable. As was said, I’m not psychic. 
I’ve chatted with the rhythm guitarist over the phone. I didn’t realise how much he felt the same way. He’s been keeping quiet about it.
It’s not just the loss of a few bars here and there but his lead in for solos is being hammed up to the point where he doesn’t bother and just carries on chugging out chords. 
He’s not as bothered about it falling apart as I am. 
Well, back to the books and time to work on some skills beyond learning and playing songs. 
Thanks to everyone that has contributed. 
 

Peter

 

 

It's a long thread. 

 

Was it odd bars he was adding in or extra 4, 8 or 16 bar phrases.

 

Assuming if the rhythm guitarist was struggling too it sounds like he was just going off and expecting you to follow. 

 

If you want to lead people and expect them to follow, you have to give some kind of directions. 

[peteb]

9 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

 

It's a long thread. 

 

Was it odd bars he was adding in or extra 4, 8 or 16 bar phrases.

 

Assuming if the rhythm guitarist was struggling too it sounds like he was just going off and expecting you to follow. 

 

If you want to lead people and expect them to follow, you have to give some kind of directions. 

 

That was my point about six pages ago! 

 

It is very hard really know how to take these types of thread - I've never seen these guys, so you really don't know how good / bad they are so you don't know who is in the right! I've played with guys with big egos, but never where they have issues like this. It was inevitable that it was going to end this way. 

 

[TimR]

8 minutes ago, peteb said:

It was inevitable that it was going to end this way. 

 

 

 

I can't even work out what way it ended.

 

I guess that was the OP's problem with most of the songs. 

 

😆

[Woodinblack]

35 minutes ago, TimR said:

Was it odd bars he was adding in or extra 4, 8 or 16 bar phrases.

 

If you read it it was mentioned that that it was actually ending earlier, or adding sections that weren't in groups of 4 bars. 

 

 

[Pseudonym]

7 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

This has been a long thread. I hope it’s been entertaining  

 

I has reinforced my view that being blasé about song structure isn’t acceptable. As was said, I’m not psychic. 
I’ve chatted with the rhythm guitarist over the phone. I didn’t realise how much he felt the same way. He’s been keeping quiet about it.
It’s not just the loss of a few bars here and there but his lead in for solos is being hammed up to the point where he doesn’t bother and just carries on chugging out chords. 
He’s not as bothered about it falling apart as I am. 
Well, back to the books and time to work on some skills beyond learning and playing songs. 
Thanks to everyone that has contributed. 
 

Peter

 

I have nothing new to add but utterly endorse the suggestions that @AndyTravis made. It seems pretty clear that you have the maturity to keep a band in shape. This "guitarist" does not. If the rhythm guitarist is also fed up (as I would be), only the personal dynamics of the band (siblings as frontmen) are keeping this together in any way. Striking out on your own, or with the rhythm guitarist, might be very gratifying. It takes effort, but circumstances seem to be urging you in that direction.

 

Good luck. And yes, as others have noted, this guitarist is only accurately described with phallic metaphors. What a cliche.

[peteb]

21 minutes ago, TimR said:

I can't even work out what way it ended.

 

 

Well the OP has been forced out of a band because he has had a fallout with the guitarist, who was in effect the band leader. This seems to be because of the guitarist's timing issues, but I don't really know who was actually at fault there because I've never seen them play. 

 

[GreeneKing]

43 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

That was my point about six pages ago! 

 

It is very hard really know how to take these types of thread - I've never seen these guys, so you really don't know how good / bad they are so you don't know who is in the right! I've played with guys with big egos, but never where they have issues like this. It was inevitable that it was going to end this way. 

 

What he was doing, as I’ve said a few times now, is missing a few bars, or phrases out mainly. Usually around a bridge or coming up to the outtro. There is nothing artistic in it, just not getting it right and not thinking it important. Sometimes where a phrase should be shorter, like either side of the middle bit in ‘Come Together’ he’ll play it like the rest of the song and sometimes he won’t. He just approximates song structures on a whim. 

[TimR]

27 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

If you read it it was mentioned that that it was actually ending earlier, or adding sections that weren't in groups of 4 bars. 

 

 

It's very difficult to read a 10page thread when you arrive late to the party. I was just asking for an update really. 

 

But, I've that's an accurate precis, mind reading is a very tough gig. 

[GreeneKing]

11 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

Well the OP has been forced out of a band because he has had a fallout with the guitarist, who was in effect the band leader. This seems to be because of the guitarist's timing issues, but I don't really know who was actually at fault there because I've never seen them play. 

 

It’s not timing. My timing is pretty solid. Please see the post above.