Band frictions

[TimR]

@GreeneKing

 

I wonder if the rest of his life is as chaotic and disorganised. Maybe talk to the drummer who seems to have some kind of understanding. 

 

But if it's all done and dusted, good luck with the next project and maybe you can spot this kind of behaviour earlier if you come across it again. 

[TimR]

2 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

It’s not timing. My timing is pretty solid. Please see the post above. 

 

I played in a band for a long time where I was made to feel like the bad guy. I played a load of dep gigs and found another band, and realised it wasn't my timing and never had been. 

[GreeneKing]

42 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

 

I can't even work out what way it ended.

 

I guess that was the OP's problem with most of the songs. 

 

😆

Of a set list of 22 he was consistently getting 4 or 5 ‘inconsistent’. Every now and again he’d surprise me by adding one to the list that had always been okay before. The real issue I guess is that he doesn’t see anything wrong with his approach. 

[NickD]

Life's too short to pander to the bellendery  of others. It not nice being onstage with people you can't depend on.

[GreeneKing]

2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Now that the band has ended, you can send him a link to this thread.

 

Maybe he’ll learn something.

Generally, in my experience people don’t. 

[peteb]

20 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

What he was doing, as I’ve said a few times now, is missing a few bars, or phrases out mainly. Usually around a bridge or coming up to the outtro. There is nothing artistic in it, just not getting it right and not thinking it important. Sometimes where a phrase should be shorter, like either side of the middle bit in ‘Come Together’ he’ll play it like the rest of the song and sometimes he won’t. He just approximates song structures on a whim. 

 

19 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

It’s not timing. My timing is pretty solid. Please see the post above. 

 

The thing is that I don't know whether you are right, because I haven't seen your band play and I don't know (by reputation or otherwise) any of the musicians involved and you can't point to any past track record to say that you are the one who is in the right. Everyone commenting here is taking your side because you are a regular poster on this bass forum, but no one really knows. 

 

For what it is worth, what you say rings pretty true and I image that it's likely that you are right, but I certainly can't say that for certain. But the bottom line is that you find yourself without a band because of a falling out with the de facto band leader for whatever reason. For me, the interesting thing is what an inexperienced bass player can take away from this thread and how they can learn from your hard-earned experience. 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by peteb

[fretmeister]

16 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

Generally, in my experience people don’t. 

 

yeah, but it would still be funny.

[GreeneKing]

17 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

 

The thing is that I don't know whether you are right, because I haven't seen your band play and I don't know (by reputation or otherwise) any of the musicians involved and you can't point to any past track record to say that you are the one who is in the right. Everyone commenting here is taking your side because you are a regular poster on this bass forum, but no one really knows. 

 

For what it is worth, what you say rings pretty true and I image that it's likely that you are right, but I certainly can't say that for certain. But the bottom line is that you find yourself without a band because of a falling out with the de facto band leader for whatever reason. For me, the interesting thing is what an inexperienced bass player can take away from this thread and how they can learn from your hard-earned experience. 

 

The fact that he is playing songs and altering the structure at whim is a fact. That is the issue here. How good I am or each of us are in this instance is immaterial. I get complimented on my playing by other members but the issue is myself and the rhythm guitarist having to sort out what is going on mid song and looking numpties doing so. We are as good as we are. We try to do it for enjoyment although when you are being hung out to dry like this it tends to spoil the fun. 
 

I’ve no desire to castigate the lead guitarist. I created this thread because I wanted to know if the situation I’m up against is unreasonable. I was fairly certain it was as I’m not a total newbie. I’m not the most experienced band member despite being a lot nearer 70 than 60 (how did that happen). I now have no doubt that this guys musical ‘style’ and expectations are completely unreasonable. I have tried to deal with this the right way and I’ve been met with tantrums and someone who believes this situation is my problem not his. I can do no more. It’s a shame but I’ll move on. 
 

Once these threads get to a certain length they become unwieldy. 
 

Probably time to give it a kind despatch? 

Edited December 5, 2021 by GreeneKing

[peteb]

24 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

The fact that he is playing songs and altering the structure at whim is a fact.

 

 

To be fair, it's only a fact because you say it is - we haven't heard the guitarist's side! Now, I think that you are probably right and what he is doing is totally unreasonable / incompetent and that he is pretty clueless.

 

For me, the interesting thing beyond your own particular circumstances, is how musicians in different but similar situations can navigate band politics when these types of things arise. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by peteb

[lozkerr]

5 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

I now have no doubt that this guys musical ‘style’ and expectations are completely unreasonable. I have tried to deal with this the right way and I’ve been met with tantrums and someone who believes this situation is my problem not his. I can do no more. It’s a shame but I’ll move on. 

It was the tantrums that raised the red flag for me. Unless you gave him a gobful of abuse for not being able to eclipse Gary Moore - something I don't for a moment believe - toddler tantrums seem a gross over-reaction that suggests either deep-rooted insecurity or a belief that that's how proper rock 'n' roll people behave.

 

The whole point about rehearsals is to tighten songs up, and to work on things that people may be having problems with. Couple of cases in point - our drummer was having problems with the Cure's In Between Days so I spent ages running through a piddly wee bassline with him so he could identify what to take away for homework. The bassline's a doddle but it never occurred to me to get stroppy about playing it over and over again - a band is supposed to be a team, not Ego Guitard And His Band. And on the flip side, I needed a lot of help with the bass solo in Atomic last week so I got him to run through it with me for about twenty minutes. He didn't complain about playing four on the floor all that time and I wouldn't have expected him to, just as he was happy to work out a cue for coming back in if I got lost. It's the overall performance that's important and if this eejit thinks he's a cut above the rest, you're doing the right thing by walking away. 

[peteb]

oops, double post

Edited December 5, 2021 by peteb

[Stub Mandrel]

9 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

This has been a long thread. I hope it’s been entertaining  

 

I has reinforced my view that being blasé about song structure isn’t acceptable. As was said, I’m not psychic. 
I’ve chatted with the rhythm guitarist over the phone. I didn’t realise how much he felt the same way. He’s been keeping quiet about it.
It’s not just the loss of a few bars here and there but his lead in for solos is being hammed up to the point where he doesn’t bother and just carries on chugging out chords. 
He’s not as bothered about it falling apart as I am. 
Well, back to the books and time to work on some skills beyond learning and playing songs. 
Thanks to everyone that has contributed. 
 

Peter

 

Why don't you set up a jam with the rhythm guitarist and the drummer?

[Stub Mandrel]

19 minutes ago, lozkerr said:

just as he was happy to work out a cue for coming back in if I got lost.

 

This is the solution for Band Joy. Musicians who learn to communicate what's happening. Good bands are tight. Excellent bands can give the appearance of totally going to pot, then pull it all back together as if they intended it that way.

 

To do this means everyone being sympathetic ton how everyone else plays and LISTENING TO EACH OTHER!!!

[GreeneKing]

5 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Why don't you set up a jam with the rhythm guitarist and the drummer?

That may be the outcome. The Rhythm guitarist has no desire to gig at all and no lead aspirations.  I see performing as a natural progression. The drummer is more closely aligned to the lead guitarist I think. Whatever will be. I need to keep myself free from any unpleasant stuff and stay honest in all this. 

[GreeneKing]

Just now, Stub Mandrel said:

 

This is the solution for Band Joy. Musicians who learn to communicate what's happening. Good bands are tight. Excellent bands can give the appearance of totally going to pot, then pull it all back together as if they intended it that way.

 

To do this means everyone being sympathetic ton how everyone else plays and LISTENING TO EACH OTHER!!!

Absolutely agree. In previous bands myself and the drummer have held it together. I’m good at counting   Sadly our lead guitar plays too loud and dominates the whole band. 

[GreeneKing]

29 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

 

To be fair, it's only a fact because you say it is - we haven't heard the guitarist's side! Now, I think that you are probably right and what he is doing is totally unreasonable / incompetent and that he is pretty clueless.

 

For me, the interesting thing beyond your own particular circumstances, is how musicians in different but similar situations can navigate band politics when these types of things arise. 

 

 

Put it this way, to be wrong I’d need to be telling lies. I’m not. 

[pete.young]

1 hour ago, GreeneKing said:

Probably time to give it a kind despatch? 

It sounds like it. I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you, I lived in Cumbria for a while and I know how limited the opportunities are. I dont' see what else you could have done: you put up with a lot of things that didn't work for you, made compromises, made sterling efforts to communicate. For me the hardest thing to get past would have been the guy having to be calmed down mid-rehearsal. Hang in there, salvage whatever you can from the other band members, and hopefully next time you will get better luck, you deserve it.

[GreeneKing]

9 minutes ago, pete.young said:

It sounds like it. I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you, I lived in Cumbria for a while and I know how limited the opportunities are. I dont' see what else you could have done: you put up with a lot of things that didn't work for you, made compromises, made sterling efforts to communicate. For me the hardest thing to get past would have been the guy having to be calmed down mid-rehearsal. Hang in there, salvage whatever you can from the other band members, and hopefully next time you will get better luck, you deserve it.

Thank you Pete. Appreciated. 

[Downunderwonder]

9 hours ago, AndyTravis said:

See if there are any drummers about

There's going to be at least one with some spare time soon!

[Downunderwonder]

4 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

That is an ideal approach. Sadly the bugger plays so loud he and probably the audience wouldn’t notice if the rhythm section stayed on course

That's plenty enough reason to give this 'band' away, even if he was on course and pleasant.

[TimR]

The band I was having trouble with went through 4 bass players in very quick secession after I left.

 

Stand back and watch. Eventually he'll realise what the common denominator is (probably after enough people have told him) and sort himself out. 

[Downunderwonder]

Give yourself a week to put together a band for the Jan gig before canceling. That gig is your trump card to recruit real players quickly. Singers and drummers are usually the hardest to find. I'd take a so so singer way before a dodgy drummer.

[Kiwi]

I was in a band once back around 2006 where the drummer enjoyed playing too loud.  So loud it affected the ability of everyone else to hear each other, which is a thing for a motown band.  The drummer was also married to the singer and they were both nice people, there was no personal animosity at all.  To his credit he actually held back one rehearsal and we played really well, so much tighter which revealed the potential we were hiding.  But the next rehearsal he was back to full power.   I asked him to pull back a bit and reminded him of how well we played last rehearsal but he didn't...probably because he enjoyed hitting hard and I was pissing on his fire a bit.  So our playing went back to it's normal sloppiness. 

 

If a band member isn't receptive or accommodating then there are only three choices, ratchet up the tension, suck it up or leave.  So I called time as I had another gig anyway and only enough time for one.  Unknown to me, Beedster came in later and took over the bass chair!

[jimmyb625]

On 05/12/2021 at 01:25, chris_b said:

 

The truth is always preferable, no matter how difficult it is to hear.

You've obviously never been involved with amateur dramatics! 🤣

[cetera]

Come on, lets get this to 12 pages. The lead guitarist is coming out of his solo now and it looks like it could end quickly at 11 with no warning and that unevenness in structure will sound rubbish.....!

 

In all seriousness. You're well rid. Onwards and upwards chap!