Band frictions

[chris_b]

This guitarist needs a nasty, musical career ending accident. See if you can come up with something.

[Count Bassy]

1 hour ago, Norris said:

Walk

 

 

 

No, run!

But not in the corridor

[mr4stringz]

6 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

I'm an enthusiastic bassist with a limit to my talent.

Hey, don’t be so hard on yourself. Seems fairly clear you’re not the issue here.

 

All depends if you think it’s worth fighting for really. What does the rhythm player think? And the drummer? Can’t be fun being drowned out and working to and bending to the whims on the fly of someone who can’t be arsed to learn the song structures. That ain’t got a damn thing to do with being a ‘feel player.’

 

 

[Dom in Dorset]

If you are a good enough player to cope with your guitarist's "feel" then you shouldn't have too much trouble finding another band.

 

[uk_lefty]

3 hours ago, mr4stringz said:

That ain’t got a damn thing to do with being a ‘feel player.’

Just like how doing massive strong bends and pulling a face doesn't make you a bluesman! 

 

Loads of muso types just see the opportunity of joining a covers band as their own chance to have their spotlight moment that they've dreamed of since their teens. It's not just guitarists to be fair, but it mostly is. They have no interest in learning a song properly, playing together as a unit and the whole band sounding good and getting repeat gigs. They just want to walk out of the dry ice, do their one trick and receive adulation. How many times does that happen at the dog n duck?

 

What does he do for a living? Ask him if he does that "by feel" too. We used to do stuff like this to make a point to our old guitarist. But he wasn't an angry little thing. If the anger is all shouting and going red just keep winding him up until he gets it. If he's likely to swing a first or throw something I wouldn't even bother being in the same room as him ever again.

[Bassfinger]

We agree well in advance what were going to play, how we're going to play it, and/or what version we're going to emulate (ie, album, single, etc).

 

If someone is going off on a tangent adding fills and phrases that don't exist within the structure of the agreed upon version then its inevitable someone will trip up.  I'm a decent enough bassist, but I'm  not especially fast on my feet when it comes to improvising to cover stuff like thst, so I would struggle in your shoes too.

 

You're  right, it needs to be sorted or your performance will be a car crash. He either needs to agree to keep his improv within the structure of the original,  or he needs to go.  Keeping him in, but allowing him to go all over the place on his own doesn't sound a viable option.

 

You need to consider as well that venues all talk with one another. Theres a veritable underground of gossip, and if you're good you'll quickly have offers to play elsewhere. Kark up a few songs and the jungle drums will be ruthless with their reportage and that'll  be the end of your live career.

 

You need to persuade him, or he needs to go.  Howmyou go about achieve either of those is for you to suss, but if his brother is the warbler you may not get a satisfactory response. That leaves you with 2 options - risk being associated with any major live clangers and the associated damage to reputation that will quickly bring the band, or walk yourself and try and find find an outfit with a grown up for a guitarist.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Bassfinger
Half asleep

[Dom in Dorset]

It would be interesting to know his previous playing history. Almost sounds like he's a classic bedroom guitarist, can wiggle his fingers but has no idea about playing with other musicians.

[King Tut]

I have a problem with some musicians who are really 'good'. They're so 'good' that they have an innate ability to wing it and consequently don't do the ground work. As for me, I don't see myself as being that 'good' and make up for it by studying and practicing hard at home. At least I know the stuff by the time I get to rehearsal. Unless he's exceptionally good and will become a USP, I'd either have it out properly or move on. With his bro as singer I feel you might be on a hiding to nothing though!

[Steve Browning]

I have played with singers, as well as guitarists, who will deviate from the expected arrangement. In the latter case, I always think of Rory Gallagher. If you watch videos of him and his band, you can see the visual (or aural) cues he gives the band. I can do 'on the fly' pretty easily but that's not the point, to me.

 

The bit that would have me quitting is the temper. My gig would be ruined by the expectation of trouble and I can't be dealing with that. Whether that's people complaining about his volume or any other issue that might crop up at a gig. Someone that wound up is someone I'd be avoiding. How good or great they were (as a guitarist) is irrelevant here.

[tegs07]

A great guitarist is one that knows how to reign themselves in and not to dominate a song. Sounds like he is pretty immature to be honest.

Maybe I am missing something but isn’t the point of a covers band to try and replicate the original song? There’s certainly room to put your interpretation out but I doubt the audience is going to put up with it being rewritten just so the guitarist can show off his bag of tricks.

 

[Trueno]

8 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

Next time you rehearse ask him to turn his volume down to a reasonable level, don’t take no for an answer, explain your reasoning. When he refuses stick to your guns, just stick to them, he’s an unreasonable egoist bellend and nothing, but nothing, exposes idiots like reasonable reasoned requests. You’ll be home by eight and can start looking for a band who can actually work together democratically.

I did something similar. We had a problem playing a particular intro… it involved the guitarist counting to two. So I said… for a start, just play it like the record. I gave them all fair warning that at the next rehearsal I would play it like the record… and continue to play it like the record, regardless.

Next rehearsal… I played it like the record until they all fell apart. Then again… and again… and again. I was just getting blank looks from the guitarist. Eventually it all became a bit fractious and the singer suggested we should “park” that one for a while.

To be honest, if you can’t get something like that right there’s no hope. I quit the band a couple of weeks ago and I’m now luxuriating in all the recovered headspace.

[Teebs]

11 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

The lead 'drives' the band and sometimes I think that if I stopped playing he'd carry on regardless.

 

He says he plays by 'feel'. What that sometimes means is that he'll add a few bars into the structure of the song here and remove a few there.

 

When I raise this the lead can get very angry. To the extent that the drummer had to take him outside to calm him down on one occasion.

I think that he may have issues with perceived criticism and that's causing his simmering rage.

 

Kill him.

It is the only way.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Teebs

[Paul S]

33 minutes ago, Trueno said:

and I’m now luxuriating in all the recovered headspace.

 

What a great expression!  Not heard that before but it is so perfect.

 

From what you have said it seems most unlikely he will listen to reasoned arguments, especially with his brother there to prop him up, so if it were me I'd quit.  As has been mentioned already, if you don't do it to earn a living but for fun then as soon as the fun stops its time to move on -  you're left with nothing but angst otherwise.

[Trueno]

Playing by feel… to me, this means you should be even more alert to what the rest of the band is doing and having sufficient musical savvy to carry it off. Works well if everyone is up for it and up to it.

 

I prefer it if everything is rehearsed to within an inch, but if a band of competent musicians want to go for it I’ll go with them.

[Woodinblack]

Its genuinely hard enough when you are a cover band with a large reportoir playing for 2 or 3 hours to get everything perfect, but if someone is deliberately going to mess things up then it probably isn't going to work.

Also bear in mind if he can't cope with musical input from you, what is he going to do with the musical input of a crowd? They will happily tell him to turn it down / up / play ac/dc etc.

[cetera]

Get rid...... or leave.

 

Scratch his car on the way out and then chat his sister up. When he complains, tell him you don't like restrictions and prefer to operate 'by feel'....

 

[Doctor J]

Whatever about his lack of ability to play music with other people, that kind of temper is the real alarm bell and is unacceptable. Being a precious artiste is no excuse for that kind of behaviour, even if he was a truly exceptional musician (and he's not, he's really not, outside of his own mind). There is no excuse. I'd have walked, to be honest. Life is too short for dealing with people who can't conduct themselves in public and control their emotions. If you stick it out, get all the issues addressed -song structure, volume, temper, it all needs to be discussed and resolved.

 

Your rhythm guitarist and drummer need to contribute to the discussion, too, it shouldn't be just you who is the voice of reason.

[martthebass]

To be honest when you said the guy goes into a 'rage' that would be enough for me to call it a day.  If the guy can't play nice with other people then he isn't a 'great' guitarist, there's more to being a great guitarist than good licks.  If the band isn't tight then it's limited and it doesn't matter how good he is it will sound crap.  Knock it on the head and find some decent guys to play with.

[Len_derby]

Well Peter, I think you’re probably getting the message from all the posts!

I think a problem you’re going to have, if you decide to do it, is quitting in a controlled way.  If you’ve let it fester for two years and you walk so close to the first gig you’ll probably get the ‘blame’ for scuppering the band. Particularly if the guitarist has the character you describe. I guess Kendal is a small place musically and you don’t need someone bad-mouthing you even if they’re a known dipstick.

I’d grit my teeth and see out the gig. Who knows, he may be tamed by nerves and the gig be a good one? After that, give notice and bow out gracefully.

Perhaps when the dust has settled the rhythm guitarist and drummer might join you in a new venture.

Whatever you do, good luck!

[Downunderwonder]

Am I wrong to size up the band as a 50 something bassist hanging with 20 somethings?

[neepheid]

This makes me sad.  You deserve better than this.  I personally have no time for divas and disagreeable folk who fly off the handle and need intervention to calm down when they receive criticism.  On the other hand, you've committed to a gig.  I'd tend to agree with the opinion that you should see the gig out - if the gig turns out to be a s#itshow (as I fear it might be) then you've got all the justification you need to pull the plug because I know it won't have been you that bingoed the show.

 

Come to think of it, I chose a time when there weren't any imminent gigs in the calendar to quit the one band I quit on purpose/principle.

 

 

[uk_lefty]

11 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Am I wrong to size up the band as a 50 something bassist hanging with 20 somethings?

Possibly. Age and maturity are not always linked.

[nilebodgers]

5 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

Am I wrong to size up the band as a 50 something bassist hanging with 20 somethings?

LOL - it reads like that. Although the guitarist sounds more like a 10 year old.

 

When I retired this year, that was the end of my duty to deal with unreasonable and offensive people (i.e. clients). That tantrum episode would have been followed by my immediate resignation if I hadn't already gone due to the persistent volume issues and song arrangement comedy.

[GreeneKing]

What a great response. Thank you. As a bassist I have the confidence of a gnat. But (never start a sentence with but), I've improved a lot and I can hold down a pretty solid bassline. I've been playing for over 20 years, much of that at home by myself. I'm 67 so started late. So I don't sell myself well and I couldn't improvise if my life depended on it.

 

In this 20+ years I've played in 3 bands and only done 3 gigs (which were an absolute blast) all of which were with the first band of guys all older than me, many years back. I've come on a long way since then. I'm the oldest in this lot but none are that young.

 

If I turned up, cranked up my amp to dominate the band and then did my own thing occasionally with some of the songs (through error methinks not creative effect) I would get comments made about it along the lines of 'you need to sort yourself out'. If I then had a tantrum I would get asked to walk. 

 

The the lead, drummer and rhythm have been in a band and gigged before. Rhythm only really wants to turn up once a month to play with other folk, stuff he likes and doesn't have to do any work on. He's not keen on gigging. The drummer (who is in other gigging bands) is tight with the lead and from the looks exchanged between them there's stuff being said that I'm not a party to. My options around here in terms of opportunity are limited. I don't want to go back to the bass 'shed', the last time that happened I gave up for a couple of years.

 

I'm going to say my bit along the lines of the above the next time we get together but I suspect I'll get nothing but another hissy fit. 

 

I love playing. My limited experience of gigging leaves me wanting more. Bands are ego-fests. I'm an open and honest sort of bloke. The two seem to clash.

 

Peter

 

 

[Skinnyman]

Tricky.

 

I think I'd have gone by now, The volume thing would be enough for me.

 

This shouldn't be about just you and the guitarist.

 

Have you talked to the drummer and Rhythm guitarist about this?

 

If they're of the same mind as you, why don't you all walk?

 

Assuming that they've got the same issue, you could all agree that you three will play the song as per the original structure (plus any variations that you've agreed in advance). Then - collectively - tell the guitarist that if he wants to deviate from this "in the moment", he needs to give you all a visual cue of some sort or you will all carry on following the agreed structure and he will sound like a complete idiot. 

 

Then implement and stick to this policy religiously until either he "gets it" or you all walk.

 

Of course, if they don't see a problem then maybe you need to find a band with a better standard of musicians. There is a difference between being able to play an instrument and being able to make music in a band with other people and it seems that you're the only one seeing that distinction.

 

Good luck with it

 

PS Unless you're certain that the gig won't be a car crash, I'd be gone well before it