Band frictions

[Steve Browning]

2 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

Do you want your name associated with it if it's going to be a mess?

I think that's my overriding 'takeaway' from all this. As well as the angst (that may or not be bearable), is the effect on your rep. Your apparent anonymity might be something of a help but musos talk!!

[Count Bassie]

3 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

I think that's my overriding 'takeaway' from all this. As well as the angst (that may or not be bearable), is the effect on your rep. Your apparent anonymity might be something of a help but musos talk!!

There are politics to think about- if you're interested in being taken seriously at all as a player, well, sounds like your move...

No pressure. 😁

Edited November 30, 2021 by Count Bassie

[peteb]

9 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

Do you want your name associated with it if it's going to be a mess?

 

Catch 22 again - do you want to leave the band and pull the gig and for them to blame you and tell everyone that it was your fault? 

 

I would do the gig and see how it goes. 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by peteb

[jonnybass]

Been in many bands over the years and this isnt uncommon.  Personally, I'd lay my cards on the table.  Tell them how I feel, not in a way that makes the guitarist feel like hes in the wrong, but more "the band backline mix is wrong", "Im not getting these structures, can you give me a cue for the change" sort of thing.  If they arent willing to fix it after that, I'd tell them that they need to find a new bass player, because its not working for me, but I'd offer to see out the gigs and leave either when the diary is empty or when a new player can take over.

 

[Count Bassie]

6 minutes ago, jonnybass said:

Been in many bands over the years and this isnt uncommon.  Personally, I'd lay my cards on the table.  Tell them how I feel, not in a way that makes the guitarist feel like hes in the wrong, but more "the band backline mix is wrong", "Im not getting these structures, can you give me a cue for the change" sort of thing.  If they arent willing to fix it after that, I'd tell them that they need to find a new bass player, because its not working for me, but I'd offer to see out the gigs and leave either when the diary is empty or when a new player can take over.

 

It's nice to be considerate of your other band mates... Taking care of business without bloodshed is always the better way to go.

[jonnybass]

11 minutes ago, Count Bassie said:

It's nice to be considerate of your other band mates... Taking care of business without bloodshed is always the better way to go.

I think its especially useful if its a small town with a small circle of musicians.  It feels more professional to me, harder to bad mouth you if you are up front and offer them a chance to fix it.  "I wouldnt use him, he thought the mix was wrong when we were too loud  and looked for cues in songs where we changed the arrangement, when we wouldnt do it, he gave us notice and left when we had no gigs." said no band ever.

[AndyTravis]

If you’re going to approach it, next rehearsal.

 

do it before you start playing, before Captain ego is all fired up.

 

see if it makes any difference at all…

 

if not, I’d call it at the end of the session.

 

I didn’t like dreading meeting up with the band.

 

Singer is much more alpha male type than the rest of us - and as I provide most of the starting points for song ideas, I got a bit precious about them. And his ideas were generally pants - and he brought very little to the table, creatively,

 

Coupled with Captain nitpicker guitarist…

 

I just wanted to walk.

 

I challenged their behaviour, and they both quit.

 

Drummer and I carried on without them. 
 

It was fine - just not as good with the new guys, and we went around in a random cycle of 5 half finished tunes.

 

Made me think about my behaviour towards them. I had to take some truths on the chin…

 

So we invited the old guys back.

 

Singer came back, he’d worked on lyrics, styles and skills - much improved.

 

Guitarist…no change. Nothing.

 

Constant fuss.

 

Invited his replacement back and it has been a “Goldilocks” combination since, and we have 12 songs ready to go - studio booked on the 19th.

 

So some people (myself and singer) will listen and adapt.

 

Some people…just won’t learn.

 

But everyone needs to be challenged if they’re creating problems.

[fretmeister]

If this isn't sorted then it will come to a nasty suppurating head exactly when you don't want it to...

 

At the gig. In front of an audience who just want to have fun without any drama. 

 

The punters will notice when a beloved song gets ruined, and they'll never forget if there's a tantrum on stage and you'll never get another booking under that band name, and you can bet whatever you like the singer and guitarist are going to blame everyone else for it, and when you inevitably walk after the sh1tshow of a gig, they'll claim you were fired for it, and they'll put it on the facebook page etc etc. "We've replaced that eijit who couldn't play...."

 

Fix it now, or quit now. It's too close to the gig to be arsing about with it.

[Ricky 4000]

2 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

Just to be specific. The issues are usually around the lead ending a section of the song a phrase or two early and going onto the chorus/fill/verse/outro too soon. The drummer just accommodates as I guess drummers often can without anyone noticing. Rhythm is drowned out anyway (except when playing a solo) but does recognise the issue. At the end of the song the lead usually says 'that was great/tight/sounded good' etc. with no idea that I was out of the mix for a bar or two (again) trying to sort it out.

 

It ruins my enjoyment of playing well. I think that in a gigging scenario it's me who'll look to be getting it wrong to the punters. I get criticised for being too loud at times and that is down to me wanting to be heard in the mix. I did spend one session behind the lead's amp and I had to move right up to the kit to hear it! I also ended up with a headache and nausea. The last session I went the other side of the kit to be with the Rhythm and he moved to alongside the lead leaving me to myself. It was bliss. I could hear the drums. I got told off for being too loud (the drummers wife who comes along) but I feel that I'm forced to compete with the lead who been asked time and time again to turn it down. Last session I was told I was turning the bass up and I honestly didn't touch it. 

 

We had a recording and it was supposed to show that the vocals were muffled and overpowered. The trouble was that the recorder (a phone I believe) was placed behind the PA that was facing the band and it was getting the full blast of the backline. I pointed this out and was ignored  The bass sounded just right to my ears btw.

 

 

 

 

 

The bits in bold ^^^^.

 

Hard to say without being there, but I think I'd keep my level down, rather than compete with a too-loud guitar. He's less likely to turn himself down if he thinks you're the one who's too loud.

 

And I'd particularly play quieter at those moments when you know he's likely to go off piste and screw the arrangement. You'll sound better for it. 😉

 

Unless he goes i.e. into the bridge half way through a chorus - in which case - all bets are off! 😄

 

[GreeneKing]

If we do get to the gig, and I hope we do with smiles on our faces, we will be professional. Of that I’m sure. 

[zbd1960]

20 hours ago, Trueno said:

I always consider the pain/pleasure ratio. Once it becomes 51% pain and 49% pleasure I’m gone. 

This. I left an orchestra because of that. Too much petty snide comments, to much ego/bullying by a few ruins it for everyone else. 

[skankdelvar]

3 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

I got told off for being too loud (the drummers wife who comes along)

 

That ↑ would be reason enough for me to leave. Never held with non-band members coming to rehearsals. One band, the drummer's wife always came along. After a few weeks she started offering 'advice' about arrangements. Then about individual parts. Then about me "moving around too much" - in a rehearsal?

 

Silly mare but he wasn't going to divorce her so I left the band.

[GreeneKing]

54 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

 

That ↑ would be reason enough for me to leave. Never held with non-band members coming to rehearsals. One band, the drummer's wife always came along. After a few weeks she started offering 'advice' about arrangements. Then about individual parts. Then about me "moving around too much" - in a rehearsal?

 

Silly mare but he wasn't going to divorce her so I left the band.

Indeed.

[fleabag]

4 hours ago, peteb said:

 

Catch 22 again - do you want to leave the band and pull the gig and for them to blame you and tell everyone that it was your fault?

 

 

Catch 23 - the gig could get messy and they blame Pete.  Well the guitarist and drummers wife might blame Pete.  So could end up with the same result.

 

Pete -  give it up.  Fack 'em.  

[Stub Mandrel]

21 hours ago, peteb said:

But this requires the guitar player to give clear cues if he is going to extend passages (or cut them short) and for him to listen to the rest of the band too

 

This. Both my bands (one is gigging for the first time in a fortnight, the other has gigged a couple of times) have flexible approaches.

 

The guitarist in the blues band could have huge semaphore flags on his back, he's that good at telegraphing the changes.

 

The covers band want the vocalist to adapt to the audience reaction, so we've agreed a combination of hand signals and vocal cues.

 

What is out of order is just randomly changing without signals or consideration.

 

23 hours ago, GreeneKing said:

I play in a covers band. We've been playing together in a loose way for a couple of years and now we have our first gig in January.

 

If it goes fubar now, you won't be gigging before 2025, unless the band decide to get serious.

[uk_lefty]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

he wasn't going to divorce her

Some people just don't know how to commit to a band. 

[Count Bassie]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

 

That ↑ would be reason enough for me to leave. Never held with non-band members coming to rehearsals. One band, the drummer's wife always came along. After a few weeks she started offering 'advice' about arrangements. Then about individual parts. Then about me "moving around too much" - in a rehearsal?

 

Silly mare but he wasn't going to divorce her so I left the band.

I had a girlfriend at rehearsal once. She was something of a singer, so she went around the room and critiqued everyone.

That was her last time at one of my rehearsals.

Lol, and yes, I heard all about it!

Edited November 30, 2021 by Count Bassie

[Stub Mandrel]

8 hours ago, deepbass5 said:

my Mrs (singer ) would always have a tape or CD player there to iron out any points that individuals had forgot. That way there is no arguement.

 

We do that in the covers band. It's amazing how easy it is to be wrong about something you were certain of even with a simple song, and also how it kills arguments stone dead.

 

Mind you, last Sunday "There's no piano, you should be playing the Hammond organ part" morphed into "Can you split the keyboard three ways and play right and left piano and the organ part?"

[skankdelvar]

Gadzooks! It slipped my mind earlier that I once encountered exactly the same problem as @GreeneKing

 

Joined a guitarist and singer doing acoustic covers stuff. After a couple or rehearsals I noticed the guitarist never played a song the same way twice which was a bit of a pain as he'd previously stipulated in no uncertain terms that I learn the set from the original recordings. Like a good boy I'd charted the songs out so it was a bit tedious when he inevitably went off the rails.

 

After a discreet interval I brought this up. 'Oh,' says he. 'I don't like to tie myself down. Music's all about expressing oneself'.

 

'Fine for you,' says I, 'But it makes it a bit difficult for the rest of us in the room'. He was talking bollocks, of course. He just couldn't remember the songs.

 

The singer cornered me afterwards and thanked me for bringing it up. 'He won't change, though' she said, looking over her shoulder nervously. She was right; he didn't so I had it on my toes. Shame that; she had a tidy voice and looked good too.

[peteb]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

 

That ↑ would be reason enough for me to leave. Never held with non-band members coming to rehearsals. One band, the drummer's wife always came along. After a few weeks she started offering 'advice' about arrangements. Then about individual parts. Then about me "moving around too much" - in a rehearsal?

 

Silly mare but he wasn't going to divorce her so I left the band.

 

Yes, it can quickly become a bit Spinal Tap. 

 

I know one band (not exactly the best band on the circuit, but I did dep for them a few times for my sins), where the BL's girlfriend used to come to gigs and rehearsals and then started to email band members with notes on their performance, good and bad. To be fair, he did dump her not long after she started doing that... 

 

[51m0n]

Record the rehearsals

 

No compressing the result no polishing the turd

 

Do your best but don't be afraid to let your inaccuracies as forced on you by monster ego to be heard

 

 

Play it back to them in the rehearsal  through the pa

 

If its as crap a mix as you think the drums will be too quiet, let alone the rest

 

Tell him he sorts his levels out or he's gigging on his own

 

If he gets  shouty apologise  to the rest and go home

 

Wait for them to call

 

Explain  he will need to apologise  to your face at the next rehearsal  or you are not interested 

[skankdelvar]

42 minutes ago, peteb said:

To be fair, he did dump her not long after she started doing that

 

Got his priorities straight, then.

 

I've always been lucky in this respect. The Missus, while supportive, evinces scant interest in the minutiae of my musical odyssey. The main thing is that she doesn't jib at me spending money on stuff. 'If that's what you want,' she says.

 

Unlike a friend of mine; about thirty years ago he came home with one of those huge old HH 1x15 bass combos the size of a washing machine. His GF got hammered one night and pushed the combo out of a second storey window into the street.
 

 

HH VS Bass Combo: Death from above

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by skankdelvar

[peteb]

2 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

 

Got his priorities straight, then.

 

I've always been lucky in this respect. The Missus, while supportive, evinces scant interest in the minutiae of my musical odyssey. The main thing is that she doesn't jib at me spending money on stuff. 'If that's what you want,' she says.

 

Unlike a friend of mine; about thirty years ago he came home with one of those huge old HH bass combos the size of a washing machine. His GF got hammered one night and pushed the combo out of a second storey window into the street.
 

 

HH VS Bass Combo: Death from above

 

Probably the best thing for it and certainly easier than carrying it down the stars. I assume that he gigged it the next night without any issue... 

 

[Bridgehouse]

6 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

 

Got his priorities straight, then.

 

I've always been lucky in this respect. The Missus, while supportive, evinces scant interest in the minutiae of my musical odyssey. The main thing is that she doesn't jib at me spending money on stuff. 'If that's what you want,' she says.

 

Unlike a friend of mine; about thirty years ago he came home with one of those huge old HH 1x15 bass combos the size of a washing machine. His GF got hammered one night and pushed the combo out of a second storey window into the street.
 

 

HH VS Bass Combo: Death from above

 

I loved those old HH combos. 
 

No idea why…

[skankdelvar]

8 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

I loved those old HH combos. 
 

No idea why…

 

Well, the HH bass combo my pal Ricky brought home (and which subsequently went out the window) was the one I sold him (hee-hee) and I can tell you it was a nightmare to transport, weighed a ton and it wasn't really very loud for all its behemoth dimensions so he took it off my hands and the rest is history.

 

Good for cracking pavement slabs though.