Shims just say no!

[Bassfinger]

7 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

This kind of reminds me of the lemon oil thread.

Don't tell us you've shimmed a neck with a bottle of lemon oil?

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Nah - I used a block of lemon lard

[Bridgehouse]

A shim utterly ruined my set neck Shuker.

[stewblack]

Never 'shimmed' before, I'm not really very handy beyond setting intonation. But the other day I shoved a bit of something flat under the neck of a bass I had put together.

I musta gotten lucky because it went from unplayable to perfect.

So count me in the shimmer camp if this ever goes to war.

[ped]

As the article earlier shows, a bad shim and oversight bolts can destroy a neck. I doubt many are done ‘properly’

[Reggaebass]

These are the ones I’ve always been advised to use, but I have also made my own in the joinery shop 

[EssentialTension]

4 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

These are the ones I’ve always been advised to use, but I have also made my own in the joinery shop 

I used half a business card from from a local restaurant. Cost was zero. I didn't even pay for a meal. Worked perfectly.

[Twincam]

On 04/12/2021 at 16:58, Hellzero said:

 

 

The more tilting the neck has, the more pressure on the saddles the strings will have, increasing the dynamic and the response of the instrument and also its power.

The opposite tends to destroy the dynamic and making the strings really flappy and dull sounding, or sometimes even so dampened they seem dead.

A neck totally parallel or level to the body will mean less to no pressure on the saddles whatever break angle you might give them inducing a great loss in dynamic.

This principle is applied to instruments with a "vibrating" table like a jazz guitar, any acoustic guitar, a double bass or any instruments of the classic quintet, but there's a maximum point after which the pressure will void the string vibration.

Check the tilting of a double bass and the break angle of the strings on the bridge and you'll understand the process.

 

I'm writing this while tired so please forgive me.

I understand for the most part but I don't think that totally works out in my initial thoughts. To me if I draw a line on paper representating a string from one point the nut, and to another point the saddle. And there is another line under it for the fretboard and I tilt the paper the angle is different but the string tension is the same. If not it would be out of tune. 

And surely if break angle alters playing dynamics string through bodies would be vastly different to through the bridge. 

Also there are plenty of very good instruments with parallel necks or only tiny tiny amounts of angle. 

A through body string through design is going to have the same downward pressure no matter how high the bridge once tuned. Angle a neck you raise the bridge but you then have to detuned the string. 

 

Why are we not playing instruments with loads of neck angle and high bridges? 

 

I'm not saying your wrong by the way, I'm just trying to understand the principle more so I can form a better opinion on this one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Twincam

[Woodinblack]

18 minutes ago, Twincam said:

And surely if break angle alters playing dynamics string through bodies would be vastly different to through the bridge. 

Also there are plenty of very good instruments with parallel necks or only tiny tiny amounts of angle. 

 

he specifically said on a vibrating table, ie, an acoustic instrument. It would make absolutely no difference on an electric only instrument

[Twincam]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

he specifically said on a vibrating table, ie, an acoustic instrument. It would make absolutely no difference on an electric only instrument

 

Again I'm tired so I could be wrong here.

But I'm sure he did say earlier in the thread angle effects the dynamics of a shimmed electric instrument. On page 1.

And that's what I was replying too. 

And this whole thread is really about bolt on neck electric instruments. 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Reggaebass said:

These are the ones I’ve always been advised to use, but I have also made my own in the joinery shop 

 

I could 3D print neck shims, with 0.001" steps.

[Woodinblack]

2 minutes ago, Twincam said:

But I'm sure he did say earlier in the thread angle effects the dynamics of a shimmed electric instrument. On page 1.

And that's what I was replying too. 

And this whole thread is really about bolt on neck electric instruments. 

 

ok, didn't read that far back, I was just commenting on the bit you quoted.

and a thread is often about many things regardless to how it started.

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

These are the ones I’ve always been advised to use, but I have also made my own in the joinery shop 

 

oh at least those are in the tonewood category so they won't destroy the sound of an instrument like a pice of card!

[Bunion]

15 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I could 3D print neck shims, with 0.001" steps.

Alas then they would be plastic which would not do, no sir, Would not do at all!!

[Reggaebass]

18 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

oh at least those are in the tonewood category so they won't destroy the sound of an instrument like a pice of card!

The wood ones definitely sound better  

[Bridgehouse]

1 minute ago, Reggaebass said:

The wood ones definitely sound better  

It’s all to do with the sympathetic transfer of vibrations which maximise the pickups efficacy

[Reggaebass]

4 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

It’s all to do with the sympathetic transfer of vibrations which maximise the pickups efficacy

Yeah, that as well 👍😁

Edited December 5, 2021 by Reggaebass

[Hellzero]

12 minutes ago, Bridgehouse said:

It’s all to do with the sympathetic transfer of vibrations which maximise the pickups efficacy

But it's only working if all the hardware is in titanium.

[Bridgehouse]

1 minute ago, Hellzero said:

But it's only working if all the hardware is in titanium.

Ah yes, of course the DavidGuetta effect.

[Hellzero]

1 minute ago, Bridgehouse said:

Ah yes, of course the DavidGuetta effect.

You mean the bass playing itself like butter.

[Bridgehouse]

1 minute ago, Hellzero said:

You mean the bass playing itself like butter.

I try to avoid playing with myself with butter

[Bassfinger]

47 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

oh at least those are in the tonewood category so they won't destroy the sound of an instrument like a pice of card!

Its fine if you use the correct tonecard.

[Bridgehouse]

2 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

Its fine if you use the correct tonecard.

I’m pretty sure BT did those in the 80’s and 90’s….?

[Woodinblack]

33 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

The wood ones definitely sound better  

 

Yeh, but I had to replace my maple shims with rosewood as the tone was too bright

 

[Bridgehouse]

Just now, Woodinblack said:

 

Yeh, but I had to replace my maple shims with rosewood as the tone was too bright

 

Did you have a CITES certificate for those shims??